[1.1.x] Space Shuttle Engines (2016-07-03)

[AlbertoKermov]

Is this "landable" on say, mun? (a la armaggedon)

[dtobi]

I still really can't balance my thrust, even using this.

I'm getting good at this. I'll send you some pics, this design I'm on right now should be my final design, just working on the boost-stage decoupling.

I think you can get rid of most fuel flow breakers by attaching only one fuel line at the top of your external tank. This will keep your CoM up. The engines should be able to handle it. Would you try ity?

[DomDiaemus]

Superb mod, many thanks.

Got my B9 fleet of shuttles carrying reasonable payload up to orbit and return; your tanks+engines work like a charm.

[Liam Sheepman]

I think you can get rid of most fuel flow breakers by attaching only one fuel line at the top of your external tank. This will keep your CoM up. The engines should be able to handle it. Would you try ity?

I'll try it once I'm done with a plane I'm making. with an unmanned go, but I actually think that it became more and more stable because the CoM moved upwards due to fuel flow. It was a bit shaky at launch, but once the bottom 3 tanks became about half-empty each, it just stayed the exact place I pointed it. Might have just been something to do with SAS.

EDIT: Wait, just realised that that type of pumping WOULD move the CoM up.

EDIT2: Yep, more stable. Thanks for the suggestion.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Liam Sheepman

[dtobi]

Superb mod, many thanks.

Got my B9 fleet of shuttles carrying reasonable payload up to orbit and return; your tanks+engines work like a charm.

Would you post some pictures here? I'd like to make a collection / inspirational album. Thanks in advance!

[dtobi]

I'll try it once I'm done with a plane I'm making. with an unmanned go, but I actually think that it became more and more stable because the CoM moved upwards due to fuel flow. It was a bit shaky at launch, but once the bottom 3 tanks became about half-empty each, it just stayed the exact place I pointed it. Might have just been something to do with SAS.

EDIT: Wait, just realised that that type of pumping WOULD move the CoM up.

EDIT2: Yep, more stable. Thanks for the suggestion.

Would you keep me posted how your craft evolves?

[Liam Sheepman]

Would you keep me posted how your craft evolves?

Sure. Tomorrow's mission - make a probe delivery shuttle than can safely return to Kerbin!

[DomDiaemus]

Would you post some pictures here? I'd like to make a collection / inspirational album. Thanks in advance!

Mods used on both shuttles

B9

NovaPunch

Mechjeb

Space Shuttle Engines (engines+orange tanks)

Remote tech (just in case I leave both kerbals at the orbital station so the shuttle could return - "by remote")

Midget shuttle for small payloads

Midget's big brother

This one doesn't need much to glide... actually >37ms is enough for a very stable controlled glide. Just wish the NP solid fuel rockers could give a bit of more punch

Edited November 14, 2013 by DomDiaemus

[OrianCEV]

I like the "kerbalness" of this mod.

[Netris]

Midget shuttle for small payloads

SNIP

I made almost the same shuttle as you ^^ Except I used produral wings and Globe SRB from KW. Ah, and yeah, mine don't lift because it has a TWR of .54 ^^ I need to work on that

[SandMan13]

This may be a dumb question but what do I do with the source folder in the download? In most other mods I've downloaded that's usually not there and the readmes say where things should go. I don't have a folder named source in my KSP directory like I do GameData or Ships etc.

EDIT: Well this was a dumb question. Found my answer in like 5 seconds after posting. Oh well.

[Malsheck]

Thanks Dtobi for this. Having a blast!

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[dtobi]

I like the "kerbalness" of this mod.

Thanks. I take this as a compliment!

[dtobi]

Mods used on both shuttles

B9

NovaPunch

Mechjeb

Space Shuttle Engines (engines+orange tanks)

Remote tech (just in case I leave both kerbals at the orbital station so the shuttle could return - "by remote")

Midget shuttle for small payloads

Midget's big brother

This one doesn't need much to glide... actually >37ms is enough for a very stable controlled glide. Just wish the NP solid fuel rockers could give a bit of more punch

WoW The midget shuttle looks awesome nice work :-)

[dtobi]

Thanks Dtobi for this. Having a blast!

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Great to see these engines being used on such a great craft! Thanks for sharing it.

[wasmic]

WoW The midget shuttle looks awesome nice work :-)

Remember to snip out the images, they take up a lot of space.

[Synthesis]

Getting the CoM right, requires some practice even with this mod. Some hints:

If you go nose down, set your tank higher. This will reduce the required angle of the engines. If your CoM shifts too much during flight, you can use the new fuel flow breakers and fuel lines to segment larger tanks and avoid strong shifting CoMs.

Would you post a picture or send me one ( vab with CoM and CoT) and a beauty shot of your vessel?

Any chance you could help me? I tried to make a shuttle like OP, but I just can't get it off the ground without falling backwards. Not sure where to begin.

[dtobi]

Any chance you could help me? I tried to make a shuttle like OP, but I just can't get it off the ground without falling backwards. Not sure where to begin.

Sure! Have you read my previous post about the CoM and the position of the external tank? Could you post some pictures of your craft, including a side view with CoM and CoT?

[DomDiaemus]

Can't make it work for large shuttles, the engines don't seem to be efficient for large load ups. To get into 100k orbit it consumes nearly all fuel, adding more tanks to compensate only reduces the efficiency. I also tried to use the big engine but I don't see the point of it, not powerful enough for combination of large tank + shuttle. So ditched the large tank and large engine.

This one it can get into 100km orbit but without cargo... adding cargo then the fuel wouldn't be enough.

[dtobi]

Can't make it work for large shuttles, the engines don't seem to be efficient for large load ups. To get into 100k orbit it consumes nearly all fuel, adding more tanks to compensate only reduces the efficiency. I also tried to use the big engine but I don't see the point of it, not powerful enough for combination of large tank + shuttle. So ditched the large tank and large engine.

This one it can get into 100km orbit but without cargo... adding cargo then the fuel wouldn't be enough.

It sounds as if your TWR is bad. You also might want to add some more boosters because the stock boosters are just not good enough. For my KM Atlantis I used four boosters instead of two. It looks nice, too.

I think you'll like what I am currently adding for the next release...

A stronger version of the X2. I has the same efficiency and TRW as the mainsail. It packs 500kN. So three of these will be exactly the same as the mainsail or the large BB1. Using four or five will give you quite some more thrust.

Edited November 17, 2013 by dtobi

[Synthesis]

Sure! Have you read my previous post about the CoM and the position of the external tank? Could you post some pictures of your craft, including a side view with CoM and CoT?

Yes, but I have to admit, I'm really unsure if I'm too high or too low. I honestly think my center of thrust is just way vs center of mass. Or something's wrong with my lift. Probably my lift surfaces. I'm very lost!

For reasons of simplicity/performance/avoiding headaches, I've tried to reduce the number of parts I'm using while having enough delta-V to go into high orbit.

[NathanKell]

dtobi: I'm liking these engines!

A suggestion/request: can you please not include any images or textures your models don't use? Any image files left in gamedata will be loaded into RAM whether or not they're ever actually used by the game, which is...very bad.

Just for the two OMS engine alone, there's like three-odd textures (old versions of your textures?) that you don't use.

[dtobi]

Yes, but I have to admit, I'm really unsure if I'm too high or too low. I honestly think my center of thrust is just way vs center of mass. Or something's wrong with my lift. Probably my lift surfaces. I'm very lost!

I am pretty sure that you have way too much thrust on your tank side. In addition the shuttle is too high on the tank. The shuttles engines must be able to turn the shuttle as the CoM shifts. Your CoM is almost at the same height as the shuttle engines. The best thing the engines can do here is pushing the shuttle sideways but they can hardly turn it.

Try reducing the thrust on your tank side or increase the thrust on the shuttle side. In addition try to have the CoM higher.

I hope this helps.

[dtobi]

dtobi: I'm liking these engines!

A suggestion/request: can you please not include any images or textures your models don't use? Any image files left in gamedata will be loaded into RAM whether or not they're ever actually used by the game, which is...very bad.

Just for the two OMS engine alone, there's like three-odd textures (old versions of your textures?) that you don't use.

Thanks. I'll remove all duplicates in the next release.

[zYnthethicz]

Ok, i have an performance issue.

When the Rotating Big Bang Engine 1 is in it's -15 degree mode, it lags like crazy, like 20 fps.

But if i change it to straight, the lag disappear.