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Cilph

By Cilph
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Firov

Firov

Posted
Posted
KerbMav and why do i need it? i dont think i do unless it is required for this mod, at which point it should be in the OP, which it currently isnt.

Actually, it is included in the OP. If you look in the ZIP archive, you'll find it. It's called ModuleManager_1_5.dll and is likely sitting in your gamedata directory.

That is what overwritse the stock configurations for probe cores allowing them to integrate with the RemoteTech system.

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Firov

Firov

Posted
Posted
Of course, thousands of players will just deal with randomly overwritten parts from different mods - so that noone can use them anymore - just because you are narrowminded.

*cough* While I would have been a bit more diplomatic... I have to agree. The fact is Module Manager is one of the best things to happen to Kerbal mods from an end user standpoint.

It resolves a lot of the conflicts and incompatibilities that we used to run into. Plus, since the module manager DLL is included with any mod that requires it anyway, it doesn't add any additional level of hassle beyond just extracting the mod in the first place.

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BigD145

BigD145

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's not that uncommon for mods to build off other mods. Just install the dll. It's tiny. You can put it in gamedata or plugins and it'll do its job. The alternative is overwriting stock parts and that's an even bigger headache to roll back when needed. It makes bug reports to Squad absolutely hellish.

Edited by BigD145
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little square dot

little square dot

Posted
Posted (edited)

Howdy folks,

Question: (that has probably been discussed but I don't know the correct terminology to find via google)

Are we still limited by the range of the less-powerful device in a connection? I thought that I read somewhere that this limitation had been fixed, however after installing Remotetech 2 last night, I tried sending a probe to Duna and using a smaller dish on the probe (50,000km I think) that is connected to KSC via the most powerful dishes on 2 Comm Stations in geosynchronous orbit around Kerbin.

I lost signal just past Minmus, meaning comms dropped out at the 50,000km point, which leaves me wondering if I still have to attach ginormous dishes to probes in order for them to be able to communicate to the KSC during interplanetary travel.

Thanks in advance. =)

Also, is there a wiki or guide of some sort to explain the specifics of the mod?

*edit: missed this in the first post

Connections

The requirement to form a connection between any two vehicles is that both vehicles have an antenna that can reach the other. If the distance is 10km, both vehicles require an antenna with a minimum of 10km range.

Your unmanned vehicle will become controllable as long as there is an active route between the vehicle and any command station.

**edit #2 Any plans on altering this system? Real probes transmit signals using a tiny fraction of the power used by the ground stations that they're communicating with, for obvious reasons. I would like to be able to make non-huge probes, but this doesn't appear to be in the cards atm.

I don't want to sound demanding or unappreciative though. You're doing a fine job on this Cilph.

Edited by little square dot
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Saddalim

Saddalim

Posted
Posted

Hi all

Long time reading - first question. I guess this is a sign that great people posting great mods here, no need for asking :)

However, I ran into something. I don't know if it's me who screws up something, so I'll ask you about this one.

I just launched my first lander, Phunix, to Minmus in Career mode with looots of science equipment hoping that it will boost my science up. I have a deployed comm network at Kerbin with 3 geosynchronous comsats, one other comsat orbiting Mun, and another one orbiting Minmus with high inclination (Minmuscom - 1).

To minimize weight, I have one dish and one omnidirectional on my lander. Comm network worked prefectly for 6 Mupollo missions to Mun, and was working also with Phunix as well, as long as I got connection from Comsat-2 (orbiting Kerbin). As I'm closing in on Minmus, I switched dish target to Minmuscom, and BAM! No connection, all controls lost.

What I don't understand is this is happening despite of the active connection between Phunix and Minmuscom. When I switch to Minmuscom, it indicates an active link through Comsat(s) to KSP, control is available. Link to Phunix is visible from here as well (see linked screenshots)

Map view from Minmuscom

Map view from Phunix

Am I doing something wrong here..?

Thanks

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AngelLestat

AngelLestat

Posted
Posted

Hi, I am new with this mod. I love it. I already had set a kerbin network and now I am trying to do a interplanetary network.

But I have some questions.

About the light speed delay.

In the first page it said that you will have 15 min of delay when you sent comands to your vessel in the jool case. Why is that?

Jool Apo is 72 212 238 387m + Kerbin Apo 13 599 840 256m = 85812078643 (worst case scenary), we divide by C --> 286 seconds, then we multiply by 2 (I am not sure why we need to take the go and back in KSP) and give us: 9.5 min of delay on the signal.

There is a way where I can set the delay how I want?

Lets say only real distance/c?

And why in the first page said 15 min?

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JDP

JDP

Posted
Posted

In the first page it said that you will have 15 min of delay when you sent comands to your vessel in the jool case. Why is that?

Jool Apo is 72 212 238 387m + Kerbin Apo 13 599 840 256m = 85812078643 (worst case scenary), we divide by C --> 286 seconds, then we multiply by 2 (I am not sure why we need to take the go and back in KSP) and give us: 9.5 min of delay on the signal.

It does seem you're right about the delay. Perhaps Cilph meant to say Eeloo.

Regarding the delay being for the full round trip of the signal. That is meant to model the delay in feedback from your probe. Any confirmation of signal reception, and audio-visual feed for that matter, will also be delayed. Just like in real life.

There is a way where I can set the delay how I want?

Indeed there is. within GameData\RemoteTech2 there is a global config file for the plugin: "RemoteTech_Settings.cfg". Here you can specify the speed of light used. By default it i set to 3 X 10^8.

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Cilph

Cilph

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Heh. I think I owe 4chan an apology for a few days back. I wasn't offended or anything. Just a tad bit annoyed that some small whining was being done on a place I don't visit instead of on the bug tracker where I can actively use that information.

Anyhow, Zzzzz...

EDIT: Signal delay is one-way only. I can't delay your video signal, but I could double the signal delay to compensate as round-trip. However I decided against that since, well, once you get above 10 seconds no one cares how high the delay is anyway. Doubling it at this point would piss off some existing users.

Edited by Cilph
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HoneyFox

HoneyFox

Posted
Posted
Heh. I think I owe 4chan an apology for a few days back. I wasn't offended or anything. Just a tad bit annoyed that some small whining was being done on a place I don't visit instead of on the bug tracker where I can actively use that information.

Anyhow, Zzzzz...

EDIT: Signal delay is one-way only. I can't delay your video signal, but I could double the signal delay to compensate as round-trip. However I decided against that since, well, once you get above 10 seconds no one cares how high the delay is anyway. Doubling it at this point would piss off some existing users.

Hmm...talking about this... an even more crazy idea emerges... :P

[DayDreamMode]

Suppose that the satellite has two working modes: reliable / immediate. these two modes just work like TCP/UDP protocols. The signal may have chance of error.

The reliable mode will need both endpoints to establish a link and handshake first, which will take several round-trips. Then when a message is sent to the satellite, it will do check-sum and send ACK to the KSC, or send some kind of NACK back to it if the check-sum is incorrect, which results to a re-send operation from the KSC, and if one message got re-transfered due to signal error, it will be put back with corrected timer value according to the time-stamp.

For the immediate mode, there's no need to handshake, which means faster transfer speed. The message has check-sum also, andif it fails, the whole message will be discarded; if it passes, there's still a very small possibility (yes check-sum doesn't always work) that the message will be mis-read by the satellite and a completely wrong operation may be generated.

Alright... [/DayDreamMode]

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cameroon

cameroon

Posted
Posted

I've really been enjoying the return of RemoteTech and I've been happily setting up satellite networks and planning interplanetary missions, but I seem to have hit a bug with undocking and I don't know if it's a bug with RemoteTech or if it's a different bug and RT is just highlighting it.

When I try to undock using the selected port, the command is queued and never executed. Additional commands just queue up behind it. Only reloading a save (F9 or from the start screen) returns normal control (though undocking from that port still doesn't work). Other docking ports do seem to work, though, which is what makes me wonder if it's just a bug with undocking.

Interestingly, the rotational keys (WASD) and throttle still work. I didn't try all the other commands (toggling RCS, translation, etc.).

(I have somewhere around 0.005s signal delay, as I realize it's cut off in the pictures.)

rt2_noundock1.png

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NathanKell

NathanKell

Posted
Posted
Howdy folks,

Question: (that has probably been discussed but I don't know the correct terminology to find via google)

Are we still limited by the range of the less-powerful device in a connection? I thought that I read somewhere that this limitation had been fixed, however after installing Remotetech 2 last night, I tried sending a probe to Duna and using a smaller dish on the probe (50,000km I think) that is connected to KSC via the most powerful dishes on 2 Comm Stations in geosynchronous orbit around Kerbin.

I lost signal just past Minmus, meaning comms dropped out at the 50,000km point, which leaves me wondering if I still have to attach ginormous dishes to probes in order for them to be able to communicate to the KSC during interplanetary travel.

Thanks in advance. =)

Also, is there a wiki or guide of some sort to explain the specifics of the mod?

*edit: missed this in the first post

**edit #2 Any plans on altering this system? Real probes transmit signals using a tiny fraction of the power used by the ground stations that they're communicating with, for obvious reasons. I would like to be able to make non-huge probes, but this doesn't appear to be in the cards atm.

I don't want to sound demanding or unappreciative though. You're doing a fine job on this Cilph.

Cilph let me add my range model. Open remotetech settings.cfg and change the range model line from stock/standard/whatever to Additive. Also set the NK Multiple Antenna Support to true.

You get:

Multiple antenna support: each additional omni antenna beyond the longest-ranged adds 25% of its range to the satellite's max omni range.

New range model. For any connection style (omni-omni, omni-dish, or dish-dish) between two nodes a and b, let node a be the one with the shorter max range. Then the maximum connection distance between a and b is range_a + sqrt(range_a * range_B). If an omni is involved, the distance is clamped to 100x the weaker link; if both are dishes, then the distance is clamped to 1000x the weaker link. This tries to simulate max gain, transmit power, etc., while still being game-y and simple.

This means, for example, that with a 500km omni and a 50,000km Mission Control, you get a maximum range of 5,500km, enough for medium earth orbit. For stock KSP, that means with the largest dish at home you only need a small dish to go to Duna. Etc.

Cilph, it'd be real nice if you could add this info to the OP. :)

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AngelLestat

AngelLestat

Posted
Posted (edited)

Indeed there is. within GameData\RemoteTech2 there is a global config file for the plugin: "RemoteTech_Settings.cfg". Here you can specify the speed of light used. By default it i set to 3 X 10^8.

Thanks that is usefull, but the light speed parameter is fine. Taking Cilph words it seems that is distance/c, but I am not sure yet.

I also add the NathanKell multiple antenna support. But I dont notice any change yet.

The idea that 2 small antennas needs to add some kind of improvement is fine. Also the fact that a big dish can improve distance conection pointed to a smaller antenna.

But I dont see any of that when I set up in True.

For example I use the gx-128 reflectron (400GM) pointed to dts-m1 (50Mm), When I pass Minmus orbit I lose connection.

That is not right... A big antenna not only help to send a signal further, also works to improve reception.

If you have a very big parabolic, you can hear the sound of a bee in the air at 500 m, Also we can still sent and receive data from voyager.

Or maybe is fine how it is and I am the one that is wrong.

EDIT: Signal delay is one-way only. I can't delay your video signal, but I could double the signal delay to compensate as round-trip. However I decided against that since, well, once you get above 10 seconds no one cares how high the delay is anyway. Doubling it at this point would piss off some existing users.

I am totally agree. Ok, I will keep testing.

Tomorrow I will post pictures of my network.

PD NathanKell : I saw your post later, read my answer to JDP.

So, i am having troubles becouse i dint set the RangeModelType?

What I need to write in that line?

stock/standard/whatever to Additive .... what you mean?

It is: RangeModelType = Standard

I need to set? : RangeModelType = stock/standard/whatever to Additive?

Edited by AngelLestat
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drtedastro

drtedastro

Posted
Posted

Like others, I am enjoying RT2. I like the changes in GUI, methodology and implementation. However, I am looking for some replacement antenna for my capsules, something along the AIES CL-1 small and normal. These antenna fit nice under fairings and then when activated extend / move into a logical position. Are there any plans to bring more antenna into the pack? Or, does anyone know of any antenna that would be good functionally and aesthetically for command service modules???

Thanks for any info and help...

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Mykill Metal

Mykill Metal

Posted
Posted

Not sure if this was asked yet or not. But when I launch with mechjeb and I try to use ascent autopilot the throttle jiggles around at like 1/4-3/4 thrust. If I reset the situation it goes back to normal, but it's annoying. Also, do I just put the ModuleManager.dll in the gamedata folder? Or the plugins folder?

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Romby

Romby

Posted
Posted

In the second post i see information about version 1.2.7. But when i try to download i only get 1.2.6. Is that just pre update notes in second post or did Cliph forget to change file name on download?

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KerbMav

KerbMav

Posted
Posted (edited)
Regarding the delay being for the full round trip of the signal. That is meant to model the delay in feedback from your probe. Any confirmation of signal reception, and audio-visual feed for that matter, will also be delayed. Just like in real life.

EDIT: Signal delay is one-way only. I can't delay your video signal, but I could double the signal delay to compensate as round-trip.

It would simply not be working correctly then, instead of delaying just the visual/video feed, it would delay the whole thing.

Delay 10 sec.

0:00 - KSC: command issued and sent

0:10 - Probe: command received, executed and confirmed

0:20 - KSC: confirmation received

Doubling the delay would make the probe wait with execution until KSC received the confirmation signal. Which is not how it works in reality or as it would be expected to.

Cilph let me add my range model. Open remotetech settings.cfg and change the range model line from stock/standard/whatever to Additive. Also set the NK Multiple Antenna Support to true.

First I was not sure if I liked this idea - but then I thought about it some more - makes sense to me now.

Edited by KerbMav
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MaxP

MaxP

Posted
Posted (edited)
That is not right... A big antenna not only help to send a signal further, also works to improve reception.

Antenna's gain for emitted and received signals are equal ))

The difference is the tranceiver specs, but ones that comes on space are good enough ))

The receiver specs (sensitivity, selectivity and others) are balanced with emitting power, that gained by the antenna in appropriate direction.

There is no chinese walkie-talkie on space missions ))

So, the RT model without "additive" option makes me depressed ))

And I have a question.

What I need to press to activate flight computer? I'm pressing green button with calculator icon, and nothing is happens.

Edited by MaxP
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