Wait?!? You start with what?

[Scrogdog]

You can copy the manned pod's .cfg and make 2-3 changes to create a 2nd dummy pod:

-Edit the required crew and crew capacity to be 0 (This makes it a probe core)

-Add RequiredElectric cost so the battery drains (This way it will be uncontrollable after some time goes by)

-If you want NO control whatsoever, set the torque values to 0

I'd test this and post the actual edits, but I'm at work at the moment.

Thanks! I'll play around with this.

[celem]

Yeah I do one of these each time I start career too. Thankfully im familiar enough with this type of moddable game and code-esque syntax of the .cfg's anyway so I found and altered things pretty quickly.

I did leave Manned flight before probes, it feels like a very Kerbal thing to do. I moved batteries to start tech anyway, theres a battery in the damned mk i pod. Kerbals can make them so I let them have em. Just the tier 1 radial thing.

I also moved the first seperatron to start tech. While Kerbals are both brave and stupid (i only use pilots with high scores in both or jeb/bob/bill as pilots), theres something really dumb about launching what is basically a missile with a guy strapped to it, before you have come to think about things like landing legs or unstrapping the warhead from the pilot. Yes I know you can do it, I've seen the tier 0 grand tour and the srb overheats to stage is ingenious, but no...

I also brought all the basic plane gear right down into the start as I prefer to do a trans-Kerbin flight to give me some sci points to play about with before my first rocket tests. Bootstrapping the whole space program IS funny, but sometimes I want to feel like a proper scientist. Plus I hate killing Kerbals, I actually have a career when none have died.

[johnnyhandsome]

Interesting note: I have Bobcat's American Pack installed, which has been upgraded to .22 and thus available in the tech tree.

It makes powerful rockets available long before KSP does, which comes across as odd, game play wise.

[Holo]

The Kerbals developed space flight without inventing a transistor first. The only computers on Kerbin, at least at the start, are the size of warehouses and are made up of hundreds of vacuum tubes. A Kerbal is the best possible guidance system, simply because to do otherwise would be to carry an entire building up on your rocket.

[Eric S]

EDIT: Oops, never mind, wrong thread.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Eric S

[Sirrobert]

For those that try to compare KSP with the real life rocket program, you are very wrong.

If you want to compare KSP with a real life program, you'll have to compare it with the first invention and development of airplanes. Put a crazy guy in a seat, launch, and see what happends.

Remember that our little space program is the first time that Kerbals have been up in the sky

Besides, the only reason they used probes instead of manned capsules in the early stages of the space race, was because humanity finds it unetical to put a human being in something that you know will probably explode. Not every culture might think that (they didn't think that back when we were developing airplanes)

[SyberSmoke]

Having read through this, I have come to a few clear thoughts.

1. There should be an option for early launches and testing that do not directly involve a Kerbal.

2. Probe Cores are not the path to this, they allow player control and in this case, the player should only program a simplistic coarse and punch a button.

That said, I would suggest something very KSP, the "Clockwork Kerbal"! Instead of a real flesh and blood Kerbal that would devour all his snacks on the pad. The Clockwork Kerbal is a wind up solution that can do a small number of things before his springs wind down. And unlike normal Kerbals, you buy them cheap from the KSC Gift shop, right next to the snow globes. ;-)

I would also like to offer to the developers the possibility of a Test Site. An area where a player can put engines they just unlocked into an apparatus for testing. After all you go out and find your rockets on the side of the road, you may be should test them some place first. That or have research that reduces the chances of a "Catastrophic Failure"...heck add in the possibility of a "Catastrophic Failure". 20% chance that in the first 4 minutes of launch an engine will quit...or explode? Hey Jeb is ready for that one.

Edited November 7, 2013 by SyberSmoke

[Sirrobert]

That said, I would suggest something very KSP, the "Clockwork Kerbal"! Instead of a real flesh and blood Kerbal that would devour all his snacks on the pad. The Clockwork Kerbal is a wind up solution that can do a small number of things before his springs wind down. And unlike normal Kerbals, you buy them cheap from the KSC Gift shop, right next to the snow globes. ;-)

That sounds like a very Kerbal way of getting high tech gear

[JumpsterG]

If anyone is interested, I put together the following .cfg that creates a Dummy Mk1 Pod in addition to the regular Mk1 Pod:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100018891/DummyPod/Distributions/DummyPod.zip

It has no kerbal, can do no science, and has around 3 minutes battery life. Same weight, torque, and SAS as manned pod. Obviously you can edit to taste.

For another simple modification, you can edit the regular pod's .cfg to make it come in the second tech node, so only once you've done the first test launch + recovery using the dummy capsule, the regular mk1 is unlocked. Just set it's TechRequired = basicRocketry.

Is this an expandable concept? Seems too simple to make a parts pack from.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

There should be a part you unlock by actually finding it on the side of the road in KSC

[Doc Anderson]

Love the idea of a krash test klockwork kerbal!

May have to rename one of 'em.

[Guest]

People don't want to wait to see the main characters of the game, possibly the characters they bought the game for. Also, manned is easier for new players.

[quietsamurai98]

[snip.] Is this an expandable concept? Seems too simple to make a parts pack from.

You could make a bunch of nerfed versions of stock parts for early unlock.

Stuff like mini-batteries, Krash Test Dummy pods, weak motorized wheels...

[Vanamonde]

Why crewed missions come first: a probe core cannot say, "WHEEEwe'reallgonnadieWHEE!"

Why probe cores were eventually invented: "Well, if we absolutely can't send a dude yet, we'll at least have a machine go see what's there."

[Brotoro]

In the true spirit of old-skool science fiction stories, we always send manned missions first!

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Kerbal pets (..kogs? konkeys?) to blast off into space during the early missions would be cool too

[Kasuha]

I don't understand what are you guys trying to invent. Kerbals have sophisticated flight simulation techniques. They are so realistic you never know if you're doing a simulation or if it is real deal. The only point where you will see the difference is when you screw up and the simulation is reverted to the very beginning. Because real deal is not reverted.

[Vanamonde]

Kerbal pets (..kogs? konkeys?) to blast off into space during the early missions would be cool too

I think the purpose of green goo is that animal lovers like myself don't have to feel guilty about Laika-ing any simulated critters.

[wired2thenet]

You can go through Kerbals like popcorn at a double feature.

<snip> ... don't have to feel guilty about Laika-ing any simulated critters.

Voted the two best comments of all time.

[Scrogdog]

People don't want to wait to see the main characters of the game, possibly the characters they bought the game for. Also, manned is easier for new players.

Gee, I do wish people would stop informing myself and others what fun is.

A crash test dummy is more difficult than a manned flight? Why would that be?

Further, at the end of the day, regardless of the properties and ways of Kerbalkind, the simple fact is that the Kerbal Space Program is NOT run by a Kerbal! It's run by me!

Edited November 7, 2013 by Scrogdog

[NASAFanboy]

Sigh....

This again?

[Supernovy]

Well I managed to unlock the first probe without a Kerbal going further from Kerbin than a jump could take them.

I now plan to unlock the plane parts and get science from flight and only then will I send a manned mission into space. It took a lot of sounding rockets, though...

[Scrogdog]

Sigh. That sort of reply again?

Very useful.

To me, it's pretty simple. Without such an ability, you can play your style but I can't. Add a crash test dummy and we both can. Without adding any advanced tech whatsoever.

[Doc Anderson]

Sigh....

This again?

Dude, I feel really bad your horse is dead.

Mine, on the other hand, still seems to be just fine.

And there's five pages here, so that's even enough for a riding club.

Tally Ho!

(BTW, LOVE the graphic from the last Kebal Polo championship!)

[Scrogdog]

Well I managed to unlock the first probe without a Kerbal going further from Kerbin than a jump could take them.

I now plan to unlock the plane parts and get science from flight and only then will I send a manned mission into space. It took a lot of sounding rockets, though...

To be fair, I do this as well. There is enough science in and around Kerbin without leaving LKO to get both fuel lines and solar panels. And even though there are manned missions that need to happen to get this done, they are fairly low risk. That's when probes and mega-science begin.

However, it's not gathering the science that is the problem of new players it would seem, it's finding it. Not sure the "where" is intuitive. Frankly, I was shocked to learn that performing an EVA in low orbit over different land biomes yields new points. Eight points for shores, another eight over water, ect.

Which is fine, but I'm not sure of the logic there.