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(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

Ziv

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Batz_10K

Batz_10K

Posted
Posted

Here's my entry for the Jool5 Challenge - Level 3

Wernher Von Kerman: Jeb, we need to do a Jool5 mission. But there's a problem, we need to go with something that will look like it'll actually fly. You know how those conspiracy nuts are about the Mun landings.

Jeb: Well, we do have 3 old spaceplanes and a carrier left over from the last war... how about we use those, and do the mission Hollywood style?

WvK: Excellent! get on it!

jqkYtnm.jpg

- Which game versions did you use? 0.25.2 and 0.90 (upgraded partway through)

- What mods did you use, if any? KER only.

- How many Kerbals are on the mission? 5.

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal? 10 (1 carrier, 3 landers, 5 refuelling, 1 crew transport)

- Did you needed a refueling mission? Yes. (Lander refuelling on the surface of Tylo)

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey? Yes.

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc? No.

- Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it!

- Any additional note or description?

* KER seems to have serious issues calculating dV for my ship designs :( oh well. I've tried to keep the resource panels open as well as showing the state of the main tanks on the carrier after each transfer. (seriously, the lowest estimate was about 450ms, the highest over 10k. I think this is mainly due to the use of disconnected fuel tanks on the carrier, and lots of xenon gas reserves for the ion lander. )

* I'd suggest looking at the full album on imgur at full resolution if you need to read anything.

The Plan:

- Orbital assembly of Carrier and landers, then refuelling

- Carrier brings lander to the Jool system and goes into orbit around Laythe

- Laythe lander lands and returns from Laythe, and docks with carrier

- Ion lander has about 4500ms dV when fully fuelled with Xenon and LFO. This should be enough to go to Vall, Bop and Pol, land and return to Laythe orbit.

- Ion lander goes to Vall, lands and returns to Laythe orbit (docks with carrier and refuels)

- Ion lander goes to Bop, lands and returns to Laythe orbit (docks with carrier and refuels)

- Ion lander goes to Pol, lands and returns to Laythe orbit (docks with carrier and refuels)

- Carrier then moves to low Tylo orbit (20km)

- Tylo lander lands and is refuelled by a fuel rover on the surface of Tylo.

- Tylo lander re-orbits and docks with Carrier

- Carrier returns to Kerbin. Landers return to KSC. Shuttle picks up last crew member and returns to KSC

1 - Assembly - Carrier launch

Asymmetric ships are _really_ hard to fly. It's stable enough while full of fuel, but a handful when empty. Also the CoL is way ahead of the CoM. So basically the easiest method is to fly straight up until we are in space, then turn eastward and accelerate.

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1 - Assembly - Spaceplane launch

Spaceplanes are flown into orbit and docked with the carrier

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1 - Assembly - Refuelling

I had to design a larger tanker so that I could refuel the carrier's 9x Kerbodyne 14400 tanks in a reasonable number of launches. The resulting rocket flew suprisingly well, and was easily able to deliver a 288t (3xKR14400 tank) payload to orbit.

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1 - Assembly - Crew delivery

There are only 4 Kerbals on the carrier, we need 5 for the level 3 challenge (although with hindsight it would have been easier to just send them up on the initial launch with Jeb...oh well). This shuttle is a modified Von Braun Ferry.

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1 - Assembly - Transfer to high orbit and last refuelling

An interplanetary burn on an 800 ton vehicle with 6xLV-Ns will take a long time. The original idea was to go to a higher orbit and accept the oberth losses for much less tedium. All tanks are topped off

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2 - Kerbin to Laythe

We are off!

So yeah, a 1 hour burn time is not going to happen. Light the KR2Ls!

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3 - Laythe

So the Laythe lander didn't fly anywhere near as well as it did on Kerbin. Dropping the (partially full) drop tanks helped, but the margins for making a safe landing on the water were very thin. Bob taxis to the shoreline and has a _very_ cold swim to get ashore (although the lander is fully amphibious, the ladder only extends to the top of the floats, so he can't get back in if the lander is on land. Bob plants the flag and gets back in the lander. takeoff and ascent is normal and he rejoins the carrier.... and discovers that the high-speed landing has torn off the docking port on the bottom of the lander. There's no way to dock or refuel. Oh well. We abandon the lander in Laythe orbit and spacewalk back to the carrier.

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4 - Laythe to Vall

On the first test of the ion lander, it turns out that although it is possible to fly the lander to Vall, land, and return to Laythe orbit, it is extremely tight on fuel (and takes forever to pump up the orbit using ion on the way out of Laythe...). So we fly the carrier to Vall and will do the Vall landing from orbit. We have about 3 full tanks remaining on the carrier.

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5 - Vall

The landing is uneventful, being well within the capabilities of the ion lander. Bill plants the flag and returns to the carrier.

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6 - Bop

I totally forgot to take pictures of the trajectory out to Bop and back again. Hopefully these pictures will give some idea of the fuel consumption. As Bop has low gravity we can use the rapier for the initial transfer burn. Ions will be used for course adjustments and the return to Vall and rendezvous with the carrier. This is the first full long-range flight for this lander. Joedo does the flying this time.

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7 - Pol

Much easier to get to than Bop, I did run into some issues with the lander exploding above the surface and the log claiming I had crashed into Pol. So the actual landing shown was done on a ridgeline above 3100m where this effect was occuring. Fortunately the low gravity made for easy flying and easy transfers. Jorlan takes the controls this time.

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8 - Vall to Tylo

As originally planned, the Tylo landing will take place from as low an orbit as possible, in this case, Pe is around 20km. We move the carrier into position. The initial transfer burn didn't take too much dV, but the insertion burn at Tylo was a little over 800ms. I made a mistake in making my periapsis too low, so that meant I couldn't use an extended braking burn on the LV-Ns, so the KR-2Ls were used for the second and last time of the mission. There is approximately 2 tanks worth of fuel left in the carrier. This should be plenty to return home (the lander was already fuelled up at Kerbin)

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** 0.90.0 upgrade arrives **

9 - Fuel Rover to Tylo

The Tylo refuelling mission has been sitting in LKO since the start of the mission. Now we need the rover in Tylo orbit. It turns out that a 27m burn time on the LV-Ns of the transfer stage is going to be ... annoying. In this case, I can flip the lander/transfer stage vehicle and use the LV-T30s on the skycrane as they have a much better TWR (and we have enough fuel, as it doesn't look like I will need to refuel the carrier.) The rover arrives in Tylo orbit.

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10- Tylo landing

The crew wakes up with a massive hangover after drinking Jebs munshine at the 0.90 release party, and promptly discovers that everybody except Jeb has forgotten how to fly a spacecraft. Fortunately this isn't a mission-ender as everybody except for Jeb has already done their landings, *and* there's an advanced probe core on the carrier. Jeb gets into the Tylo lander. This one is modified from the standard version with slightly larger drop tanks and extra VTOL thrusters to cope with Tylo's strong gravity. It turns out that the fuel lines from the drop tanks don't seem to be working after the upgrade. A load and save of the lander in the SPH solves this.

Our best, (and only!) pilot, and general all-around top gun - Jebidiah takes the controls for this one.

After several attempts a successful landing is made (on fumes!)

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10- Tylo fuel rover landing

A fuel rover seemed to be the most interesting way of refuelling the lander without adding extra mass to the lander or carrier. The skycrane has about 3300ms dV, and there's some fuel left over in the transfer stage, so the landing is a bit easier this time. Just need to be careful not to break the wheels of the rover, as they can't be repaired. Also, we need to get close to the landing site of Jeb's lander, so the drive on the surface to reach it isn't too long.

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10- Tylo refuelling and return to orbit

After an eventful drive through the mountains, the fuel rover eventually reaches the lander. It turns out that due to vernor use on the transfer stage, we are short some fuel (with hindsight I should have checked this, as there was fuel remaining on the skycrane which could have made up the difference). Never mind, hopefully we have enough fuel to make orbit even if there isn't enough for rendezvous with the carrier. In true Apollo style, Jeb accidentally knocks over the flag as he manouvres for takeoff. ...There's enough fuel to make orbit, and we didn't get burned by the decoupler bug during the climbout. (yay!) There isn't enough fuel to rendezvous with the carrier, so it has to come and get us. (at this point I am _really_ glad I added a probe core). Docking is successful. Tylo complete!

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11-Tylo to Kerbin

So it turns out the the 0.90.0 upgrade has done some damage to the carrier. The fuel lines aren't working. after a load/save in the VAB, on closer examination, they have dissappeared completely (!). However, we can still use the LV-Ns by manually transferring fuel to the FL-T400s that are directly connected to them. If we get Jeb to hold course on the manouvre node, we can rotate through them filling each in turn before they run out. The plan, then, is to escape Tylo orbit into a high Jool orbit that doesn't intersect with any of the moons, warp to the transfer window and then head home, as it looks like we have more than enough fuel. The plan works, and we arrive back in Kerbin orbit some 15 years after leaving on the mission...

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12- Kerbin orbit to KSC

The carrier isn't designed to land, so we need to send a shuttle to pick up the crew (with an extra pilot to bring back the ion spaceplane). This goes uneventfully, and the crew arrives safely back at the KSC.

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DBowman

DBowman

Posted
Posted (edited)

Firstly; what a great challenge, I went outside my comfort zone, learnt so much, and had a lot of fun with it.

I decided to limit myself to atmospheric rated cans for atmospheric landings, and to EVA only for short range transfers. At first I was thinking to avoid jets (because I'd never flown them), but since they make such a huge mass difference i decided to go for it.

The craft is all stock parts. version 0.25, mods used: Better Atmospheres, Kerbal Engineer, Enhanced Nav Ball, EVE, MJ, SelectRoot, Trajectories, Kerbal Alarm Clock. mods loaded but not used: KAS, Procedural Fairings, RCSBuildAid

Design iterations:

  • First I made a 2 stage ( jet + vacuum / circularise ) Laythe craft. Re-did it with rapier only, eventually realized that a "push me pull you" turbo jet coupled to my ion lander would do the job.
  • The command chair saves weight but presents challenges; a radial mount causes off center COM, but axial mount caused me build challenges mounting a docking port above it. At one point I had a design where the pilot leaving the chair would explode the vehicle. Mesklin's craft showed one way to handle it, and on my ion lander I put a couple of solar panels on a boom to counter-weight the radial pilot.
  • My intentions for a modular Vall then Tylo lander foundered since the docking port weight required more fuel, which required more ... so I trialed specialized minimal landers, and finally discarded the Vall lander after I realized how to do an ion landing (it just needs enough time/height to slow down).
  • Parachutes are heavier than I thought; a passive Laythe required 3, a 1 parachute landing with a little jet at the last minute saved 300kg.

The flight plan:

  • Kerbin turbo jet ascent. Once the jets deliver less thrust than ion flip the craft around and circularize on ion. I must be missing something about jet piloting since I needed way 'too many' intakes... still at least it got up.
  • Many periapsis kicks at an odd angle timed so that the final escape and Jool encounter burn could be done half before Kerbin PE and half after (oberth++), tweaking the PE tunes the final escape angle. It seemed to work ok, but I miss-timed the burns little so 'could do better next time'.
  • Laythe direct aero-capture. Used the Traj mod, didn't quite deliver for the aero-capture in this case, but was fine for Laythe landing and eventually Kerbin aero-capture later - so probably operator error. I came in pretty 'hot' and narrowly avoided impacting, I had to ion at apoapsis to establish an orbit. Reconfigured the ship so Tylo lander and Xe cache can be left in orbit and ion lander is coupled direct to capsule.
  • Laythe ion de-orbit, single parachute descent leaves 11 m/s, burp the jets at the last minute for a soft landing, plant the flag - woot!
  • Laythe turbo jet ascent, again flip over and finish with ion, rendezvous with the Tylo lander and Xenon.
  • Laythe periapsis kicks to near escape, wait till the craft orbit and Laythe orbit prograde line up then escape. The minimal escape 'wants' to be near Tylo orbit, burn so the Apoapsis is out of Tylo SOI.
  • Circularize out of Tylo SOI and leave the capsule & 700 Xe for the return trip, take most of the Xe with the landers.
  • Low delta v Tylo intercept & circularize. Straight forward landing and ascent plan. Unfortunately ( since the probe core torque is so low and I miss-oriented the craft ) the landing was messy; exploded a drop tank and broke some cubic oct struts off the landing legs. Still any landing you can walk away from is a good landing so I persisted. I had to push the remaining drop tank debris clear of the lander for a clean liftoff. Probe torque could not produce an UP heading, and I couldn't jam some rocks under the lander, but I managed to wrestle it into an only mildly eccentric orbit. Ion lander and Xe came to the rendezvous.
  • Again periaptic kicks and wait for the craft prograde and moon retrograde to line up for the escape.
  • Vall went all to plan. Leave Xe in orbit, land, woot, ascend, rendezvous with Xe. To land Vall the ion lander needed a 700Xe tank.
  • Periaptic kicks and wait to escape out to Pol followed by some inclination and periapsis tweaking to get an encounter, capture, & inclination zeroing. Took a half full tank for landing - still a huge 'safety buffer'. Inefficient but successful suicide burn to what looked like a fairly flat area. Leaving the command chair set the craft sliding down a loooong hill and I had to chase it down and stand in front of it to stop it. Oh Kerbals! Burn UP, then east to get a nice orbit & rendezvous - wish I'd put a probe core on the Xe cache :(
  • rinse and repeat for Bop, including wishing for probe core on the Xe cache.
  • Rendezvous with the capsule, closest first encounter I could get was 34km (compared to a few hundred meters at the moons). Great to get a visual and finally see the capsule again, it had power so perfect. The cache had Xe remaining and it seemed silly to discard it, but I was not looking forward to another docking with the passive cache. In the end I docked the ion to the capsule, decoupled the Xe cache, let them drift far enough apart, flipped the ion + capsule end over end, the Cache had not picked up any spin so it was easy to dock to.
  • wait 'some time' for a Jool Kerbin transfer window then one big burn for home encounter, some inclination and periapsis tweaks in flight, Traj to tune aero capture (worked perfectly to prediction). Since I had plenty of Xe decided to circularize and try for a KSP landing, ended up just out of sight but in walking distance.

a2xNJP9.png

[imgUR]fBvl6[/IMGUR] http://imgur.com/a/fBvl6/#0 not sure what I've done wrong on the embed...

Next time:

  • learn to fly jet to orbit more effectively:
  • it looks like I use 'way too much fuel' (ha)
  • it looks like I need 'way too many intakes' ( 300 kg of intakes ...)
  • eccentric orbits - the escapes would be easy, but do they save fuel? how much less convenient would they make rendezvous?
  • probe core on the Xe cache!
  • Pol / Bop ion lander doesn't need full power - hmm what can I do with that...
  • exactly how much could you do with EVA? how do you even astrogate...

Again awesome challenge, thanks for bringing together all the inspirational flights.

Edited by DBowman
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Lou

Lou

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here's my entry for the Jool5 Challenge - Level 2

- Game version: V0.90.0.705 Beta (however, I didn't use any SLS parts).

- What mods: No mods used.

- How many Kerbals: 2 Kerbals that landed on all the moons.

- How many launches: 1 ridiculously big one (8075 T, 1152 parts on the pad at launch).

- Did you need a refueling mission: Nope.

- Did you bring a Living Quarters: Nope, but each Kerbal had a stately Mk1 Lander Can for most of the trip.

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc: Well, there was a Laythe rover...

- Share the delta-V information too, if you tracked it: Uh, well, I have lots of pics that show fuel levels during the mission, hope that's good enough.

- Any additional notes or description: The mission starts with one big launch that must have used every orange tank and Mainsail engine in existence. After launch, nine LV-N Atomic Rocket Motors take Bill and Bob to Jool. A very lucky aerocapture delvers the mission to an orbit around Jool with apoapsis that was perfect for Tylo interception. Note: I did make a 3 or 4 attempts at this capture, aiming so low each time that a catastrophic Jool landing was inevitable; this one just happened to be perfect, which was blind luck! Anywho... After Jool aerocapture, the mission proceeded to Tylo interception. Around Tylo, Bill and Bob migrated to the Rover section, and the Rover section separated from the Main section. The Rover section then orbited and landed on Tylo, and Bill and Bob planted a flag. The Rover section then launched from Tylo and proceeded to land on Laythe, where Bill and Bob planted another flag. At this point, the autonomous Main section landed on Laythe roughly 10 km from the Rover section. Bill and Bob drove to the Main section, boarded, and launched. They then landed on Vall, Bop, and Pol (in that order), planted flags, and then headed home for a landing near the North Pole of Kerbin. Side note: there were no in-space dockings or rendezvous.

- If I had to do it again...

1) I'd put more solar panels on the ion-thruster part of the Main section so I could run my four ion thrusters at fulll thrust at Jool.

2) I'd put four Rockomax 24-77 on the Vall-lander part of the Main section: I had to waste a bunch of fuel to get the mass of the Main section low enough (under 26 T) before I attempted to land on Vall so that the thrust from the single LV-N Atomic Rocket Motor I had would be enough to overwhelm Vall's gravity (waste of fuel = bad design).

Click here for 100 pics from the mission!

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Ngu6DRql.png

Edited by Lou
Added "If I had to do it again" details...
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redsh

redsh

Posted
Posted

This is my one. Done it with 0.90.

Mods: MJ, Alarm Clock, DPAI, RCS Build Aid.

Crew: 7 kerbonauts.

  • Dilnie, Bob - lands to Laythe
  • Jebediah - to Tylo
  • Tedsel - to Vall
  • Chadsted - to Bop
  • Rodmy - to Pol
  • Lensel - permanent lab crew

Launches: 3 (main ship, drive unit and fuel).

Crew storage: Cupola, Hitchhiker container and Mobile Lab.

Additional stuff: amphibious plane for Laythe, rover for Tylo.

Not very precise though. "Misc" is for aerobrake tuning without nodes etc.

Note on MJ's delta-V panel visible in some screenshots: it's broken (stops updating data frequently and treats main ship staging incorrectly). Please ignore it.

[table=width: 800]

[tr]

[td]Transfer[/td]

[td]Injection[/td]

[td]Corr 1[/td]

[td]Corr 2[/td]

[td]Insertion[/td]

[td]Plane Chg[/td]

[td]Circlrztn[/td]

[td]Misc[/td]

[td]Total[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Kerbin -> Jool[/td]

[td]2022.9[/td]

[td]58.7[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]~100[/td]

[td]~2184.6[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Jool -> Laythe[/td]

[td]7.8[/td]

[td]1.9[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]93.1[/td]

[td]238.2[/td]

[td]~100[/td]

[td]~441[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Laythe -> Tylo[/td]

[td]418[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]727[/td]

[td]11[/td]

[td]335[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]1491[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Tylo -> Vall[/td]

[td]751[/td]

[td]7.3[/td]

[td]5.7[/td]

[td]195.7[/td]

[td]5.2[/td]

[td]170.2[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]1135.1[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Vall -> Bop[/td]

[td]395.5[/td]

[td]8.8[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]268.9[/td]

[td]21.6[/td]

[td]38.2[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]733[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Bop -> Pol[/td]

[td]169.6[/td]

[td]1.0[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]195.7[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[td]19[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]400.3[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Pol -> Jool[/td]

[td]38.8[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]81.4[/td]

[td]85.9[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]206.1[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Jool -> Kerbin[/td]

[td]2992.4[/td]

[td]0.5[/td]

[td]4.6[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]-[/td]

[td]~300[/td]

[td]~3297.5[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

Total delta-V expended: ~9888.6. Unused delta-V: 3952.

Other stats:

  • Flown with ASV-L: ~4500 km.
  • Droven with HDMP-T: ~420 km.
  • Biomes visited: 22.
  • Science points: 49007.4
  • Mission duration: 5y 363d.

Gallery (over 400 pics for big mission!).

Part1: craft showcase and launch.

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Part 2: Jool and Laythe arrival.

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Part 3: Laythe.

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Part 4: Tylo.

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Part 5: Vall.

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Part 6: Bop.

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Part 7: Pol.

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Part 8: reutrn (and bonus).

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Ziv

Ziv

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is Chaka Monkey allowed?

Is this a collection of parts from other mods, or a new one? I'm sorry I don't have time to check it in-depth right now but if it doesn't have an advantage over the stock then it may be good. But the problem with allowing a lot of mods is that I have to know all of them very well to check if the mission really happened as it is without any cheating and there's already a lot of mods allowed. Maybe I should do a new level which is free for all the mods but doesn't give you the JOOL-5 Badge? But mining and interstellar crazinesses adds a new gameplay style or makes it very easy while other mods are almost just visual, so how should I rate the mods? What do you think guys?

- - - Updated - - -

Well, I was going to start this challenge this week but wanted to see about getting modular rocket systems approved.

Link:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93067-0-25-Modular-Rocket-Systems-v1-3-2-%282014-12-03%29-Stock-alike-Parts-Pack?highlight=Modular+Rocket

Well I guess I can wait until the 21st.

I'm open to reconsider this mod because I liked it when I tried it but I was afraid it can give too much advantage over the stock with some of its solution... and also makes it harder to review missions with engines from this mod. What do you think?

I'm also considering this: SpaceY

- - - Updated - - -

Happy New Year to all the brave Kerbonauts all over the World!

I'm very happy with the success of the JOOL-5 Challenge and I'm glad it made my initial idea come to life.

When I made the challenge there was no information about such a mission on the internet, the orange tank was the biggest element we could use, the ion was 1/4 weaker (almost useless) and the ships were more wobbly and broke apart more easily, so it was a really heroic one. Nowadays it's still hard and needs a lot of good planning but has become manageable. I wanted the JOOL-5 Badge to be a real precious one, only for the best. What do you think about this? Is it still a top challenge? What did you like and what should we change in the future? Mods, game styles, new levels or sub-challenges?

Let me know your thoughts! :)

Cheers,

Ziv

P.S.: I refined the rules for the part-clipping.

Cmdr.Arn1e, Red Iron Crown: thank you guys for answering on questions while I was away, I really appreciate it! :)

Kobymaru: if the whole mission looks good and possible then I can get over some missing data or picture, if I'm sure those parts can be done and doesn't consist some very hard thing to achieve.

And I will review these missions soon (sorry for the delay!):

Krovster

Batz_10K

DBownman

Lou

redsh

Edited by Ziv
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Cmdr. Arn1e

Cmdr. Arn1e

Posted
Posted

No problem, I think RedIronCrown did more to put me right really! :D Hope you had a nice relaxing vacation :)

Thoughts; I think this is still a top challenge, you still don't see the badge about very much except among some of the harder challenges, and I know for a fact that this takes a lot more planning than it initially seems!

I think that there is plenty of room for an overhaul though, (which would also give you good excuse to start a new thread for it!), to start with an update of the levels now that there are so many more parts to play with... Or maybe make it a sub-challenge to do it all without the use of SLS parts? only using the Mk1 spaceplane parts? (as it was when you firts put the challenge up! almost - some parts have been buffed too... Ions, Mainsails and so on...) maybe a no RCS sub-challenge? (Or is that just too evil? hehe!)

Also, CalMacDa has put up a Laythe Exploration challenge that I am currently attempting as a preparation for doing the Jool-5 again, I think it's a good practice run, filled with the same level of white-knuckle "Oh dear, I really should have checked the encounter WAY back!" excitement :)

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Red Iron Crown

Red Iron Crown

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Posted

Happy to help in a small way with the greatest challenge thread. :)

I'm open to reconsider this mod because I liked it when I tried it but I was afraid it can give too much advantage over the stock with some of its solution... and also makes it harder to review missions with engines from this mod. What do you think?

I'm also considering this: SpaceY

MRS is carefully balanced against stock, the engines are mostly simple multiples or fractions of stock engines. For example, there's a 2.5m nuke that's equivalent to four LV-Ns, and a 0.625m LFO engine that's half an LV-909. NecroBones helpfully lists the engine stats in the OP of the thread for review. The rest of the parts are tanks, structural adapters and such, don't really lend an advantage other than lower part count.

SpaceY is a bit more game-changing. It makes heavy launches a bit easier with bigger engines and tanks (though I'm not sure that's a big deal as multiple launches are permitted). Potentially more game changing are the 3.75m and 5m docking ports, the wobbliness of stock docking ports is a big factor in orbital construction.

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Laie

Laie

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When I made the challenge there was no information about such a mission on the internet, the orange tank was the biggest element we could use, the ion was 1/4 weaker (almost useless) and the ships were more wobbly and broke apart more easily, so it was a really heroic one. Nowadays it's still hard and needs a lot of good planning but has become manageable. I wanted the JOOL-5 Badge to be a real precious one, only for the best. What do you think about this? Is it still a top challenge? What did you like and what should we change in the future? Mods, game styles, new levels or sub-challenges?

Reminds me of how climbing the Mount Everest has become a tourism industry.

When I first made it, there already were the Kerbodyne parts. With 20-30 people already wearing the badge the question never was if it could be done, only how. I've never been to Jool before, but the two most important pieces of information were easy to come by: a) a plane that works on Kerbin will work as well on Laythe, B) good estimates of the required delta-V for a tylo lander. I had no idea how much fuel I'd need in order to travel from one place to another; despite the best delta-V maps, there was a lot of best-guessing involved. Many calculations and I'm sure I've lost some hair. When I finally went underway, I still had a feeling of venturing into the unknown.

Jool-5 still is a major achievement. After reviewing missions for over a year, you may think that it's always the same old, same old. My own mission was rather oversized with lots and lots of fuel. For you, it probably was just another contestant who took the MOAR FUEL approach. But I assure you that I really though I'd need all of it, and boy was I ever proud when I made it and was allowed to wear that badge.

By now, the Jool-5 badge does not distinguish the best of the best (if it ever did). It does, however, distinguish the big boys who know their way around KSP.

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Ziv

Ziv

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I'm trying to do the lowest mass challenge. I carry the Mk1 pod all the way and back, but is it ok if I return to Kerbin on a seat?

That's a good question! You have to use a pod for the interplanetary journeys only. And by the rule "you can use any crazy idea for the landings" and I meant for the moon landings but you can use a seat for landing on Kerbin too!

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Stratzenblitz75

Stratzenblitz75

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Hey Ziv, I don't know if you mentioned it before... Posted on September 15th

Has it really been so long? I started this project 4 months ago and now I finally have something to show for it...

Behold! My grand-tour adventure has begun! Hopefully it isn't too cringe-worthy...

More details here...

Now, while I initially set out on this project as a Jool-5 Kethane entry, the project has mutated into something way different. And I've learned a lot along the way. For instance, I've learned how to build functioning planes in FAR (not to say I'm that good at though), I've learned how to build an Eve lander with FAR and DRE (a lot harder than it sounds), I've learned how to "mod" parts to make things more interesting/reduce part count and I've learned how to record, edit and create videos.. I didn't know any of this before I began this adventure... So I guess its time to thank Ziv again for the inspiration and for hosting the one of the most legendary KSP challenges... I don't expect you accept this mission when its finished, or even look at it. I just want to let you know that you inspired me to do something crazy that I would have never thought of on my own.

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Norcalplanner

Norcalplanner

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I'm open to reconsider this mod because I liked it when I tried it but I was afraid it can give too much advantage over the stock with some of its solution... and also makes it harder to review missions with engines from this mod. What do you think?

I'm also considering this: SpaceY

Ziv,

I think that MRS should be allowed. It's certainly less game-changing than KW Rocketry. For me, there are two things I love about MRS - the quad nuke, which brings down the part count and can finally be mounted inline without a bunch of shenanigans; and the black and white 2.5m tanks, which look a lot better to my eye when combined with the stock ARM 3.75m tanks.

With SpaceY, it's a great pack and I love it. It's a bit OP, but is mostly in the same league as KW Rocketry and Novapunch, which also have 5m parts. My biggest concern would be with the radial decouplers, which are very strong and powerful. When combined with KJR, it's possible to use the decoupler as the only connection point - no struts - between a radial asparagus stage and a main tank. It's also set so that the built-in separatrons do no damage to the center tank, which is a significant advantage compared to stock separatrons.

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sdj64

sdj64

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Having used both in career, I could say that MRS is just about exactly equal to stock in terms of performance but it does give you more options.

The SpaceY parts are a good pack of 5m parts. Engine ISPs are a bit better than KW and there are more options. It's more along the line of stock, though the engine clustering options are a bit lackluster. You could use 5 mainsails instead of the heavy lift engine and it would be more efficient and lighter weight. The fuel tanks are, well, fuel tanks. They have the same mass ratios as stock tanks (not Kerbodyne). You're saving on part count, definitely, but losing a bit on efficiency. The decouplers are a fair bit OP since they make heavy rockets with side boosters much easier.

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Xannari Ferrows

Xannari Ferrows

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Hey, Ziv's back! Hope you had a lovely vacation! Now that you're back to reviewing challenge attempts, I figured it's time for me to stop putting this off and sit down and do it. I will be updating every hour or so, so watch out for new updates every now and then.

You can find the mission report here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/106273-Xannari-s-Jool-5-attempt%21

Please tell me of you find any issues with the attempt or if I need to provide more information, or anything really.

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Cmdr. Arn1e

Cmdr. Arn1e

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I'm wondering my grand tour mission count as completion for Jool-5 challenge?

I think the only reason this wouldn't qualify is due to the pre-sent fuel depot... to qualify, you are allowed to send a fuel shipment if needed, but not allowed to have a pre-existing fuel depot, sorry :sealed:

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