[0.25] RasterPropMonitor - putting the A in your IVA (v0.18.3) [8 Oct]

[nli2work]

I've been looking at noahark's fantastic use of your transparent pod plugins and I was wondering: Can this be applied to the stock parts as well? And is it already?

TransparentPod module won't work for stock pods or cockpits without fair bit of rework of Squad's assets.

[K3-Chris]

TransparentPod module won't work for stock pods or cockpits without fair bit of rework of Squad's assets.

Yeah you need a specific transform to supply to RPM to tell it what part is supposed to be transparent, stock models (and most models for that matter) have the external windows in the same mesh as the rest of the outside.

Technically easy to do (open stock .mu in blender, move the window polygons into a different mesh, put back into unity), but you'd have to MM swap all stock models with external windows and an IVA, or overwrite the stock models.

Though stock IVAs and the external model don't actually line up that well usually, they've taken some artistic licenses on window size and placement.

Anyway on to my latest somewhat dumb questions:

I'm displaying text over cameras, it's awesome:

(click for full size)

But as you can see the 0.5 on the left ladder (vertical speed) is impossible to read against the horizon, now there are different ways to solve this, either give the text a darker outline (which isn't pretty) or put something mostly transparent but black between the text and the camera.

How do I put an image between the text and the camera of a HUD?, I'd basically just fill in those ladder boxes with 10%~ black.

Basically like this:

But with the black elements bellow the ladders/text.

I tried textureInterlayURL but that renders on top as well.

B9 MFDs have optional support for a lot of plugins we don't bundle, what's the best way to tell people they're missing the plugin the page should have shown? I tried adding a text to the effect and a textureInterlayURL but that appears on top of some plugins, bellow others, is there a better way?

Also would be really cool if RPM at some point could support some kind of check for a plugin and disable that page outright and have the option of hiding it in menus. Or if there isn't already a way to show a different page if the first doesn't exist, or the plugin needed to make the pagehandler/backgroundhandler work doesn't exist.

Edited September 1, 2014 by K3|Chris

[luizopiloto]

RPM have a way to check for installed plugins if the page requires it...

[K3-Chris]

RPM have a way to check for installed plugins if the page requires it...

That's not very helpful.

[nli2work]

That's not very helpful.

I'd check the default MFD settings for MechJeb/SCANSat and see how they are set up. they have a config setting for Show No Signal that redirects to a generic blank page if the plugin is not installed.

[K3-Chris]

So any suggestions about my other question? Can you layer backgrounds? I want to have a camera on the bottom, above that areas with near completely transparent (10% opacity~) black and above that HUD "ladders" (vertical bars showing vertical speed and altitude) above that (to make the white elements visible on the white horizon) and the text.

Can you have more than one background handler?

[ganinian]

Is there a way to put the action group buttons and those other buttons in the ALCOR into the stock pods? Or is it just for the ALCOR? Cuz it would rock if the SAS button can be swapped with one that actually has a label

[K3-Chris]

Is there a way to put the action group buttons and those other buttons in the ALCOR into the stock pods? Or is it just for the ALCOR? Cuz it would rock if the SAS button can be swapped with one that actually has a label

For that to happen you need the right props inside the pod, you'd have to add/replace props in the stock IVAs for it to work, SAS isn't an action group, it wouldn't have it's own label.

[nli2work]

So any suggestions about my other question? Can you layer backgrounds? I want to have a camera on the bottom, above that areas with near completely transparent (10% opacity~) black and above that HUD "ladders" (vertical bars showing vertical speed and altitude) above that (to make the white elements visible on the white horizon) and the text.

Can you have more than one background handler?

I haven't tried multiple background handlers on the same page. I'd think they would conflict. SteerableCamera background handler is probably not the same as cameraTransform on a page.

Camera have to render to transform with non-transparent shader, you could put textureInterlayURL on this screen to layer, but doesn't seem necessary. HUD can be rendered on 10% screen without using textureInterlay, interlay would be on top of the HUD not matter what, since HUD is rendered first, being background handler, then interlay texture, then page definition text and variables on top. You'd have to "bake" the transparency into the scrolling bar PNGs if you want it to render at the same time as the HUD.

You can control the camera's brightness with the _MainTex color and alpha settings in the KSP Unlit shader before exporting the prop. but if you are using cameraTransform in the HUD page (I'm guessing that's what you've setup in the above HUD screen), the HUD will probably get dimmed as well.

TL;DR: to get the slightly darker background only inside the vertical bars but under the white text, I think all you need to do is "bake" the shaded transparency into the PNGs.

Edited September 2, 2014 by nli2work

[nli2work]

Is there a way to put the action group buttons and those other buttons in the ALCOR into the stock pods? Or is it just for the ALCOR? Cuz it would rock if the SAS button can be swapped with one that actually has a label

best way to do that is load the stock pod IVA and replace the stuff with ALCOR assets. then create a MM config to swap the IVA depending on whether ALCOR props are installed or not.

[K3-Chris]

I haven't tried multiple background handlers on the same page. I'd think they would conflict. SteerableCamera background handler is probably not the same as cameraTransform on a page.

Camera have to render to transform with non-transparent shader, you could put textureInterlayURL on this screen to layer, but doesn't seem necessary. HUD can be rendered on 10% screen without using textureInterlay, interlay would be on top of the HUD not matter what, since HUD is rendered first, being background handler, then interlay texture, then page definition text and variables on top. You'd have to "bake" the transparency into the scrolling bar PNGs if you want it to render at the same time as the HUD.

You can control the camera's brightness with the _MainTex color and alpha settings in the KSP Unlit shader before exporting the prop. but if you are using cameraTransform in the HUD page (I'm guessing that's what you've setup in the above HUD screen), the HUD will probably get dimmed as well.

TL;DR: to get the slightly darker background only inside the vertical bars but under the white text, I think all you need to do is "bake" the shaded transparency into the PNGs.

Yeah I've come to pretty much the same conclusion, the JSIHeadsUpDisplay is a bit clunky sadly, though I guess I'm strictly speaking using it for something that can't really be called a HUD, so I could use the interlay to give the white text in the text = .txt page a background? Ladders I came to the same conclusion on, though for some reason when I apply the black background to them they don't line up with the white boxes, I'll need to add some "padding" to the images and adjust their size/placement parameters to make them line up right, oh fun.

Why is the left box larger than the right one anyway? Was like that before I changed anything.

Btw any idea how I turn off the emissive of the MFD's buttons when it runs out of power? the screen turns off as you'd expect but the buttons remain lit, which looks odd. I know how to do animations but I'm not sure how to connect the emissive state to the power of the craft.

Edited September 2, 2014 by K3|Chris

[K3-Chris]

I'm making progress but I got a hurdle I can't figure out:

Lovely, it fits nicely etc (still WIP but the numbers fit in the gray arrows in the middle of the ladder) though that m is for mili, which I don't want.

Uh-oh, - adds a character moving everything to the right, and for some reason when the verical speed is -300u it's 5 characters long, instead of the prescribed 3, moving the entire line 2 characters..

I'd much prefer instead of having "-500u" I'd get 0, padded to the left with spaces to make it 3 characters wide, smallest number I'll allow is 0.1(m) again padded on the left with spaces.

Not sure what to do with the "-" it's important to figuring out which way you're going obviously but it's also tricky to fit.

Here it's looking like I want it:

I'm ascending at 79m/s and I'm at 445m

But at 1km+ altitude stuff gets less than ideal again:

I'd prefer if it was "2.x" instead of "2k" like if I'm at 2.2km make it "2.2"

My tags for this line is:

[@y-15]      {0:SIP3.1}                      {1:SIP3.1} $&$ VERTSPEED RADARALTOCEAN

Anyone knows how to get it formated like I want it? the documentation and the links it gives to sting formating information left me with more questions than answers.

Edited September 2, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Errol]

I'd like to try this mod with:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67450-WIP-IVA-PLUGIN-ProbeControlRoom-1-0-beta8a-IVA-All-the-things%21-new-3D-RPM-17/page24

and remote tech, what I am wondering is this:

Is it possible to make a screen in a cockpit of a manned vessel controlling an unmanned vessel via remote tech display a camera view from the unmanned vessel being controlled? That way once my kerbals reach duna, they can assume control of my drones there for control sans wait....from IVA!

[MOARdV]

[@y-15]      {0:SIP3.1}                      {1:SIP3.1} $&$ VERTSPEED RADARALTOCEAN

Anyone knows how to get it formated like I want it? the documentation and the links it gives to sting formating information left me with more questions than answers.

Short answer, you can't with SIP. The SIP format automatically suffixes the SI scale character. As for it exceeding the formatting code (like the -419u case), it's behaving as it was designed - it attempts to fit the 3.1 formatting string - in this case, since the value is in the range 0 < x < 1, it drops the format, so it's effectively SIP3. However, it must include the sign character and the SI character, so it requires 5 characters to render that number. At the absolute minimum, if you really want the .1 to show, you need 7 characters (3 for the digits to the left of the decimal, one for each of the decimal and the fractional digit, one for the sign, and one for the SI prefix).

That said, if Mihara's not around to take requests and do updates, I could probably work up a change that would behave like you want. However, I need it fairly well specified before I code it up - Real Life has been busy, so I won't be able to spend a great deal of time tweaking it. Please PM me or post here what formatting you're looking for, preferably with some numeric examples (eg, 2200 -> 2.2).

If you have other questions about the strings, I can try to help out with those, too.

[nli2work]

I'd like to try this mod with:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67450-WIP-IVA-PLUGIN-ProbeControlRoom-1-0-beta8a-IVA-All-the-things%21-new-3D-RPM-17/page24

and remote tech, what I am wondering is this:

Is it possible to make a screen in a cockpit of a manned vessel controlling an unmanned vessel via remote tech display a camera view from the unmanned vessel being controlled? That way once my kerbals reach duna, they can assume control of my drones there for control sans wait....from IVA!

I doubt that's possible. the IVA all things mod adds internal for command parts without one. It's just designed to look like a control room. As far as the game is concerned, you are flying with the probe where it may be.

[Errol]

I doubt that's possible. the IVA all things mod adds internal for command parts without one. It's just designed to look like a control room. As far as the game is concerned, you are flying with the probe where it may be.

I meant to say control the pod from a command station rather then "mission control". I haven't been playing with remote tech yet, so I don't know what happens when you try to use iva all things while control from a command station, but it would be awesome if I could see the probe out the window, and see its cam view on my prop monitor.

[nli2work]

I meant to say control the pod from a command station rather then "mission control". I haven't been playing with remote tech yet, so I don't know what happens when you try to use iva all things while control from a command station, but it would be awesome if I could see the probe out the window, and see its cam view on my prop monitor.

I don't think RemoteTech does that. you only control the focused vessel, not a different vessel. for what you want to do, there would need to be a separate plugin that allows control of unfocused vessels. RPM only works with camera transforms on the same vessel as the RPM enabled pod. You could fake it by offsetting the IVA to one side, but it would be more gimmicky than useful since you would still be slaved to the probe's orientation.

[Errol]

I don't think RemoteTech does that. you only control the focused vessel, not a different vessel. for what you want to do, there would need to be a separate plugin that allows control of unfocused vessels. RPM only works with camera transforms on the same vessel as the RPM enabled pod. You could fake it by offsetting the IVA to one side, but it would be more gimmicky than useful since you would still be slaved to the probe's orientation.

http://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/#command-stations

"Command StationsFor those extra long distance missions, it is possible to set up a team of Kerbals to act as a local command center. This Command Station can not process science, a connection to KSC will still be required for that. However, the Command Station allows you to work without the signal delay to Kerbin, which might otherwise climb up to several minutes. Command Stations require a special probe part and a minimum number of kerbals on the same ship. Consult your VAB technicians for more information."

[nli2work]

http://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/#command-stations

"Command StationsFor those extra long distance missions, it is possible to set up a team of Kerbals to act as a local command center. This Command Station can not process science, a connection to KSC will still be required for that. However, the Command Station allows you to work without the signal delay to Kerbin, which might otherwise climb up to several minutes. Command Stations require a special probe part and a minimum number of kerbals on the same ship. Consult your VAB technicians for more information."

remote tech simulates satellite control by cutting off control of a focused vessel that doesn't have uplink, directly or through relays, to KSC. That's not the same as remote controlling vessels, i.e. you are flying vessel A in Kerbin Orbit; and controlling vessel B in Mun Orbit.

RT2 Command Station allows you to controll a probe withing a certain radius, if the command station and the probe don't have uplink to KSC directly or through relay. You still have to focus on the probe to control it.

[K3-Chris]

That said, if Mihara's not around to take requests and do updates, I could probably work up a change that would behave like you want. However, I need it fairly well specified before I code it up - Real Life has been busy, so I won't be able to spend a great deal of time tweaking it. Please PM me or post here what formatting you're looking for, preferably with some numeric examples (eg, 2200 -> 2.2).

Sorry my email notifications for the forum has gotten wonky as of late, just saw your post

Much appreciate the offer of help, and yeah dance around that big time-sink called "IRL" as well, I don't expect an immediate reply, get to it when you can.

My idea for it is quite simple what I specifically need is slightly different for the 2 fields, to the left is vertical speed, I basically want a progression like this:

--0

-0.1

-1.1

-9.9

10.3

99.5

101

999

1.0k

9.9k

10k

99k

(-'s stand-in for padding spaces, forum don't render those) units are m/s (km/s when k is added ofc).

Basically locked to 3 numbers, left padding with spaces, silly low numbers clipped to 0, smallest actually shown would be 0.1m/s, note the padding spaces to ensure the string doesn't change length, the k uses one of the 3 spaces alloted.

The altitude on the right would be identical, except the padding spaces would be on the right.

I feel this would be a very user friendly and clear way to display both values, main problem I have with the SIP stuff currently is the flickering around nano and micro numbers, if I'm stationary on the runway it should read 0.

If you have other questions about the strings, I can try to help out with those, too.

Thanks, I looked at the examples linked by the manpage of a wiki and ran away screaming, I wish resources like that had better examples, interactive examples or a way to reverse the process, instead of learning everything about how to format strings, specify what you want done and you get the right tags for that.

Where is Mihara btw? He hasn't been on in ages, I sure hope he's on a vacation or something and hasn't vanished for good.

Edited September 4, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Errol]

remote tech simulates satellite control by cutting off control of a focused vessel that doesn't have uplink, directly or through relays, to KSC. That's not the same as remote controlling vessels, i.e. you are flying vessel A in Kerbin Orbit; and controlling vessel B in Mun Orbit.

RT2 Command Station allows you to controll a probe withing a certain radius, if the command station and the probe don't have uplink to KSC directly or through relay. You still have to focus on the probe to control it.

OK, got it. Thanks, for the explanation. I've decided to restart my MKS/OKS career with remote tech and raster added for difficulty, this info will help when I start establishing my comm net.

[monstah]

Any plugins that make IVA the default camera? There was one on the first post that doesn't work anymore, and there's a cool one for First Person EVA, which is also not the default camera.

Also, my hack for default screen configurations doesn't seem to work on Probe Control Room. Bummer.

[MOARdV]

Basically locked to 3 numbers, left padding with spaces, silly low numbers clipped to 0, smallest actually shown would be 0.1m/s, note the padding spaces to ensure the string doesn't change length, the k uses one of the 3 spaces allotted.

The altitude on the right would be identical, except the padding spaces would be on the right.

This shouldn't be tough to implement. It's a variant of SIP, with some clamping of values near zero. Left/right justification should be easy (I think C# uses a '-' to change the justification in some string formatters - I'll have to go refresh my memory).

The only problem I see is that you need 5 spaces to fit a minimal implementation - take -100000, for instance. That would pack into -100k. You could drop the sign if you use color coding to distinguish negative values, but you still need a minimum of 4 spaces (which you already use in some of your examples, like 10.3). I guess my question is, what happens with the sign? Do you want a 5 space requirement, and show the sign, or do you want a 4 space requirement and drop the sign?

Where is Mihara btw? He hasn't been on in ages, I sure hope he's on a vacation or something and hasn't vanished for good.

I know Mihara has been very busy on occasion. That's probably the case again. Unfortunately, since my IRL workload ramped up 6 months ago, I haven't kept up side-band talks with him (and I haven't made any meaningful contributions to RPM ).

[K3-Chris]

The only problem I see is that you need 5 spaces to fit a minimal implementation - take -100000, for instance. That would pack into -100k. You could drop the sign if you use color coding to distinguish negative values, but you still need a minimum of 4 spaces (which you already use in some of your examples, like 10.3). I guess my question is, what happens with the sign? Do you want a 5 space requirement, and show the sign, or do you want a 4 space requirement and drop the sign?

Ah yeah sorry should have specified that, drop the -, I'll do it either in color or some other way, and instead of 100k and higher perhaps something like "RNG" (I know that's random number generator in some people's mind) or "---" or something similar to denote that you're out of range, you're not going to use the aviation display at 100km and higher, you'll switch to the rocket one.

I know Mihara has been very busy on occasion. That's probably the case again. Unfortunately, since my IRL workload ramped up 6 months ago, I haven't kept up side-band talks with him (and I haven't made any meaningful contributions to RPM ).

Understandable, we all slide in and out of KSP and KSP modding on occasion, there aren't any really big outstanding things with RPM currently except perhaps surf seems to have vanished from the mechjeb integration (mechjeb just overhauled their surf stuff) and there is some bug with ScanSAT, NavUtilities & VesselViewer changing the color of my APFD overlays, though toggle one or the other and that fixes itself.

Here is my current version of the APFD btw:

Edit: oh, after looking at my current setup 6 characters fit easily at that size, so -396.5 fits nicely, -/non- has one space dedicated to it, "." takes one etc. -100.5k (---)0.1 etc.

Majority of the text is untouched for now and I don't like it, but baby steps...

Edited September 4, 2014 by K3|Chris

[luizopiloto]

Nice MFD...