PorkWorks dev thread [Habitat Pack] [SpaceplanePlus]

[ElJugador]

Maybe it's just me, but that dartboard ruins what seemed like a really promising mod.

For me, it's just the icing on the cake.

[Itsdavyjones]

its just you, i think most of us love it there.

[jfull]

It is definitely just you

Well, maybe not just him

Its definitely funny, but I think there should be 2 versions of the IVA, one with, and one without.

[Sapphire]

Well, maybe not just him

Its definitely funny, but I think there should be 2 versions of the IVA, one with, and one without.

I agree. I like what Bac9 said awhile back. (see: "It's Not Kerbal?") While Kerbals are many things, they aren't dumb.

[Neutrinovore]

I agree. I like what Bac9 said awhile back. (see: "It's Not Kerbal?") While Kerbals are many things, they aren't dumb.

No, I agree, Kerbals aren't dumb. But apparently you and jfull and satcharna don't think they have a sense of humor either. You don't think a Kerbonaut would put up something like this as a joke? Why not?

That's why I think it's great, it shows that not everything to do with space travel has to be ultra-serious all the time. To me, this is in the same vein as hitting golf balls on the Moon. No real point, just doing it because it's there to be done, and having a bit of a laugh at the same time.

[zakkpaz]

what will it look like deflated?

[johnsonwax]

While Kerbals are many things, they aren't dumb.

Um.

In-game, Kerbal astronauts (perhaps not the engineers) have two personal metrics: courage and stupidity. Collectively, Kerbal astronauts are extremely stupid, and stupidity is a praised characteristic. Just tour through the Astronaut Complex.

Bill Kerman would definitely be playing darts up there given his stats in my game.

[LaydeeDem]

Maybe it's just me, but that dartboard ruins what seemed like a really promising mod.

Agreed, especially since this is intended as a stock-alike mod. Did no one understand what bac9 said in his blog post about the new VAB?

It’s not Kerbal? *shrug* For some reason some people like to think Kerbals are sloppy engineers only capable of producing inherently broken designs held together by duct tape. To them, proposing something prim and proper like a NASA VAB could be built by Kerbals is ridiculous. Well, I disagree. Take a good look at the parts: at the LV-N engine, at 3-man pod, at the landing legs, at ion engine. Those are cleanly executed pieces of impressive technology. Kerbals are indifferent to safety precautions and are very excited about explosions, yes, but they make an impression of extremely capable and very competent engineers. Sure, we know they probably turned a construction crane into a vomit carousel or raced on bulldozers in the process, but I don't doubt for one second they can build buildings similar to real ones, and I don't think it would be out of character for them. Plenty of other stuff like engines is fairly close to how our human rockets look. It's unfair to mistake Kerbals for Orks from a “Certain Universe With 40k In The Name,†or to expect them to build sloppy duct-taped huts.

Overall, I'm convinced the obsession with disasters and perception of Kerbals as worthless engineers only caring about explosions is destructive for the game. KSP deserves much more than being a glorified disaster simulator where rockets falling apart and crews being killed is the prime entertainment and the only expected result. The achievements of players who strive to be successful, who create beautiful, well-engineered, reliable designs, should never be devalued, and the opinion that going to space is impossibly hard deserves to be crushed and disproved over and over again. Kerbals are capable engineers and it's up to the player to utilize their technology well.

This same mindset is harming the game in many other areas as well. The bugs of the physics system aren't there because we thought they would be fun and don't deserve to be defended as some players surprisingly do. The achievements of reaching orbit, landing on another body or even establishing a permanent base somewhere should not be perceived as something impossibly hard and unreachable for anyone but hardcore players. Everything is possible if you are willing to learn and there is no reason to restrict yourself to playing a disaster simulator with rocket cars or insta-exploding space planes. Justifying that to yourself by creating a certain mental image of Kerbal engineers competency might make the game better for you but I’m striving for a greater Kerbal good.

Now, I'm not opposed to having fun at all. For instance, I have nothing against the KSP trailers made by our Pixar-tier magician Daniel Rosas which often depict Kerbals ignoring safety and having good fun. Part of the charm of KSP is the opportunity to take enormous risks, ignore established paradigms and experiment freely, which can often leads to great successes and interesting stories to tell. That is not clashing in the slightest with the fact that you have nice, cleanly made, technologically impressive spacecraft parts available to you, or well-built buildings to assemble your creations in - all without any sign of duct tape, rust or sloppy welding. So, basically, I feel objects in the game should continue to be clean and well-built to be consistent with the existing art style, and I'm convinced reinforcing the widespread opinion of Kerbals being incompetent is very harmful for the game. So there you have it.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Nutt007

[Pingonaut]

Kudos for keeping the stock look. Fits really well with default parts!

[Specialist290]

No, I agree, Kerbals aren't dumb. But apparently you and jfull and satcharna don't think they have a sense of humor either. You don't think a Kerbonaut would put up something like this as a joke? Why not?

That's why I think it's great, it shows that not everything to do with space travel has to be ultra-serious all the time. To me, this is in the same vein as hitting golf balls on the Moon. No real point, just doing it because it's there to be done, and having a bit of a laugh at the same time.

I'd say that the duct tape patches on the wall demonstrate that it's not meant to be taken as "a joke" except at the expense of the kerbals, rather than one perpetrated by a trickster as part of the crew. I agree that it's probably a bit in poor taste, even if meant as a joke; kerbals may take dumb risks, but I don't believe they're suicidal.

That said, I'm impressed by the modmaker's skills, and I wish you the best of luck as you work the bugs out, Porkjet

[johnsonwax]

Sorry, I'm not buying it. I don't think anyone even reads the part descriptions that the devs themselves wrote:

"The Mk 3 Cockpit is the pinnacle of airframe cockpit technology. In the rare event of a Kerbin Penetrating anomaly, this cockpit will ensure your Kerbs are interred according to health and sanitation guidelines."

"This cozy capsule seats two, and is very lightweight. However, don't expect it to survive atmospheric entry or even a sneeze."

"The EAS-1 External Command Seat provides all the controls needed to fully operate a spacecraft, just like a command pod, but without such needless frivolities as "pressurized interiors", or "seat belts". It's bare-bones, pedal-to-the-metal efficiency at its finest.

"Although criticized by some due to its not unsignificant use of so-called "pieces found lying about", the LV-T series has proven itself as a comparatively reliable engine. The T30 model boasts a failure ratio below the 50% mark. This has been considered a major improvement over previous models by engineers and LV-T enthusiasts."

"While considered by some to be little more than "a trash bin full o' boom", The RT-10 is used in many space programs, whenever the need to save cash is greater than the need to keep astronauts alive. Use with caution, though. Once lit, solid fuel motors cannot be put out until the fuel runs out."

"A more reasonable engine for rough economic times, the Poodle engine doubles as a BBQ when at low power."

"The Mk16-XL Parachute is a double-sized variant of the Mk16, now with only 50% of the structural integrity!"

"This unit was something one of our engineers came upon while dumpster divin-- Erm, while researching alternative applications for existing technologies. It's a sealed container which appears to be filled with a strange-looking substance. We couldn't reach in or break the canister open, but watching how the Goo behaves when subjected to different situations could be very educational.

"

If the devs are trying to argue that Kerbals (at least the astronauts) are not stupid or reckless, they they should start by not making the description for half of the stock parts, and the very characteristics of the kerbonauts not reinforce the idea that they are both stupid and reckless. The last description just showed up in .22 for the first time. Playing darts inside of an inflatable hab module is not out of character if they're using their engine as a barbecue.

[Bobhendly]

..Uh.. What the hell is wrong with all of you? Is there no sense of humor around here? This is KERBAL Space program! Their purpousfully depicted as clumsy at times, Or just plain stupid.. Although they have brilliant engineers, (Players) The kerbals themselves are Wonderful! You wouldnt want a fun-less minion with no humor in despicibal me, would you?!

Think of it.. The developers have already said all that needs to be said. Kerbals are great as they are.. Stop all this nonsense and berating over a very funny dartboard!

(I don't see anyone barking at Lack for his funny "Stick a pin in it" Option for his LLL Inflatable module? Or the Checklist in B9 Aerospace?

Enough Nonsense. More Kerbal.. Which may or may not be nonsense.

[Bobhendly]

So, to Sum it all up?

KEEP THE DART BOARD AND THE PATCHES

[Mecha Pants]

I've already said that I'm all for the dart board, but how about this as a compromise for those that don't like it:

Leave it in, but don't point any of the default IVA views at it, and put some IVA props between it and most of the crew positions (lab stations, storage cabinets or the like) so that you actually have to look around the internal space from all the seats to find it. This would make it more of an Easter egg than a shining primary feature of the part. As such, people who didn't like it could safely pretend it didn't exist, and those that like it would still have it.

Either way, I'm still very impressed with the progress thus far, and I'll certainly use this in all sorts of places.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Mecha Pants

[stupid_chris]

Guys please, can we stop the circlejerking here? Everyone is entitled to their opinions. If Porkjet wants a dart board, he'll add one, if he doesn't, he won't, period. You have the right to say what you would prefer, but saying other people are wrong because they don't agree is wrong. So let's cut on this and focus on the mod okay? Else we'll be handling out warnings/infractions without warnings. Thanks.

[Mekan1k]

Since you are keeping the dart board- make sure to include a mention of it in some way in the part description.

[Porkjet]

Wow! So much talk about a dart board! Don't worry guys I havn't even decided where to put it yet. Just slapped it somewhere because it cheered me up.

I don't think that kerbals are all just stupid! But I like to think of them as sometimes not thinking very far ahead. Also theres a difference between an interplanetary spaceship-constructing engineer and a bored astronaut on a 5 year journey to eeloo. I love the humor in this game, the way it incorporates trivial little problems into something so highly controlled and accurate as space travel. Think of the various pasties in the command pods, "P.S I ate all the snacks" or "stop using bits of metal as fuses, we have spares!" The game is kind of a mixture of cartoon and reality, I just have to try and find the right balance.

Given the cartoonish aspect, I can accept it if a leak in an inflatable hab module can actually be sealed up with duct tape, which in reality is nonsense because the walls are made of dozens of layers of different materals and bladders and putting a patch on the top most layer would help as little as putting your finger in a hole in your spacesuit.

So yea, anyway, I hear your concerns and will try to find a way that we all can live with.

[Scotius]

Well. There WAS at least one instance when spacesuit punctured during spacewalk was fixed with a piece of duct tape It worked well enough to get the astronaut back inside safely.

[onkelsiebdruck]

as putting your finger in a hole in your spacesuit. So yea, anyway, I hear your concerns and will try to find a way that we all can live with.

a bit inconvenient, but even that would help. Pressure is not really a point in spaceflight, even a wet sheet of paper could reduce air loss a while. Most layers are to protect from radiance and keeping the temperature.

[pizzaoverhead]

Well. There WAS at least one instance when spacesuit punctured during spacewalk was fixed with a piece of duct tape It worked well enough to get the astronaut back inside safely.

Do you have a source for this? The only spacesuit leak I know of was in a glove on STS-37, and that was sealed by the astronaut's own skin. It wasn't even noticed until after the spacewalk.

[satcharna]

Do you have a source for this? The only spacesuit leak I know of was in a glove on STS-37, and that was sealed by the astronaut's own skin. It wasn't even noticed until after the spacewalk.

I believe what he is referring to was an incident on the ISS. That problem wasn't fixed with duct tape though, it was fixed with the emergency repair kit that comes with the suit, and it wasn't patched up while the suit was in use, but after the astronaut using it had aborted his EVA and returned to a pressurized section.

[team.leit]

I you are still looking for help, I would sugest looking here for help

[pizzaoverhead]

I believe what he is referring to was an incident on the ISS. That problem wasn't fixed with duct tape though, it was fixed with the emergency repair kit that comes with the suit, and it wasn't patched up while the suit was in use, but after the astronaut using it had aborted his EVA and returned to a pressurized section.

Was that Luca Parmitano's brush with orbital drowning in July? They actually had to wait a week for the repair kit to arrive on Progress 52. Either way, I haven't come across any instance of duct tape being used as a vacuum seal on orbit. Its adhesive degrades in those conditions.

Aside from that, here's a pretty cool cross-section of one of Bigelow Aerospace's smaller modules:

[Porkjet]

Yepp! That's the one I use as reference^

that seems to be a small scale mock-up tho

[pizzaoverhead]

Yepp! That's the one I use as reference^

that seems to be a small scale mock-up tho

Ha! I guess the action figure in the middle should've been a tip-off! They are huge!