[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[NathanKell]

jsimmons: Well phooey. Thanks.

Zyglorx: awesome!

Do you want me to link from OP, or include in RO like RedAV8R's patches?

[Zyglrox]

@NathanKell

It's probably better to link the post from OP, because it's not a full Soviet Pack rescale, only several parts, and if someone loads BobCat's sample rocket, it will be all broken. So people need to see which parts are needed.

However, if you are ready to maintain it, then by all means include it in RO, it's just a bunch of MM patches, no big deal.

[Zyglrox]

Just a a Note Nathan SFJackBauer's RealEngines no longer works with the latest MM.

Weird, works for me.

Worked with 2.1.0, didn't work with 2.1.3, works again with 2.1.5.

[RaccoonTOF]

I guess I'm gonna have to update to 2.1.5 now, lol...have spent the last couple days trying to iron out those glitches with RealEngines so I could get back to testing my modded versions of them for use with the ARM parts, lol. (As a note, the whole thing really does need a full overhaul - there are a lot of whitespace and syntax issues with the last RE release in the first place - the older versions of MM just failed on them more gracefully than the recent versions have been )

[nobbers12345]

I've been having issues with all joints on my rocket falling apart, mach effects with no relative motion, and getting fixed onto one point in the universe.

Not quite sure which mods.

[xandalis]

Alright, finally giving RSS/RO a go. So far, finding it very interesting. One problem though, which I'm not sure if it's something I didn't install correctly, or a case of PEBKAC: the remote tech "mission control" site looks like it's right along the equator in South America... Is it supposed to be there? Is it time to finally figure out the ins&outs of RT's flight computer?

[NathanKell]

RaccoonTOF: I've managed to sweet-talk OtherBarry into working on it some when he has a chance (specifically, finally getting limited ignites), but if you want to pitch in too you're more than welcome. It does need a lot of touching up, yes.

On the plus side, I've managed to get MJ2 to play nice with KM_Gimbal (PMs to both Sarbian and dtobi), so that'll make life nicer.

xandalis: Cool! Regarding RT2: ground station(s) are defined in RemoteTech2/RemoteTech2_Settings.cfg. By default the only ground station is placed at KSP's KSC location. Instead, I suggest using this file. Link to CerberusRCAF's post. It has ground stations for all major launch sites (in fact, the sites included in RSS.)

[NathanKell]

Zyglrox: Ok, thanks! That's a good portion of the way to fixing Dragon's stuff, anyway (the stuff that can be; some stuff will never work with FAR).

nobbers12345: no logs, no help possible. Need output_log.txt (or Player.log on Mac/Linux).

[MedievalNerd]

For those playing with RemoteTech, and RSS' latest inclusion of extra launch sites, I've done a RT2 Settings config to place ground stations at all of said launch sites.

LINK

Fair warning: You might want to turn off RT2 displaying ALL antenna connections on the in-flight map view, and instead show only your ship's connection line. Otherwise it will be... cluttered.

Yay!

Great stuff!

[RaccoonTOF]

Nathan, I'm happy to do the total overhaul as well, though I was currently just fixing the issues which caused total failures. And I've been doing that by completely removing the offending parts entries from the RE files (or rather, totally commenting them out), and making totally new configs with the same values, rather than tweaking the existing files (it's a lot easier for me to work with, and spot errors in, a single config per part rather than having the various changes to a single part spread across multiple files as the RE configs do). If you just want the monolithic configs I've done, I'll send them along with the ARM configs with the test release (I've not added ignitor support to any of the RE engines though, so you'd still have to merge them with the stuff that OtherBarry is doing to get that - the ARM and other SLS parts that I'm doing do have proper ignitor configs for them though).

[Zyglrox]

@NathanKell: You deleted the old link, but forgot the new.

[NathanKell]

RaccoonTOF: Cool! Yes, I absolutely want any work you've done on RealEngines. And any you plan to do.

OtherBarry's not going to get to it for a good bunch of weeks (besides being busy, the Mod Bundler is higher priority) so if you want to look into that and have a chance, you're more than welcome to.

With at the very least your values in hand I'll post a new thread for the RE pack, since it really needs its own place for updates/discussion/etc.

Zyglrox: I'm including them in RO. One less link to click = 1 less headache for me when users miss clicking it. :]

[xandalis]

Regarding RT2: ground station(s) are defined in RemoteTech2/RemoteTech2_Settings.cfg. By default the only ground station is placed at KSP's KSC location. Instead, I suggest using this file. Link to CerberusRCAF's post. It has ground stations for all major launch sites (in fact, the sites included in RSS.)

Thanks, totally missed that one. Now I just need to get a javlin into orbit... Or enough launches that generate science 'till I get to struts... Or longer tanks...

[Fox62]

Can someone tell me the maximum possible scaling in Active Texture Management?

[frisch]

Just ran into what is probably a Kraken problem. Using realism overhaul, real solar system. A modest sized (150 Ton), but large (mostly a big H2 tank for a nuke engine, reproduciably shakes itself apart just as it reaches orbit. Happens even if I turn off the engines, and disable all reaction wheels. Behaves normally until then. I've flown a number of other designs (larger and smaller) with the same mods. This one shakes apart despite minor configuration changes before each launch.

This was on normal time scale. Anyone seem something similar? Anything to check or debug?

[RedAV8R]

What node sizes are holding the parts together. Otherwise a craft file, and what other mods you are using to build it. If one of us can reproduce the problem, we can likely fix it.

[Makeone]

And another interesting quirk: after installing latest version of TweakScale, RftS modified KW-rocketry engines have returned to their 'normal' sizes, BUT their node positions is still that of an bigger ones, so i wonder if TweakScale messes up on RftS and/or RealFuels (which one does the size alterations?). Anyone else noted similar behaviour? Other engines seems to have hold their 'correct' sizes...

[Northstar1989]

Asteroids.

Are they currently re-scaled along with the solar systems?

If not, for realism and balance (with the larger part sizes), they should be- at least assuming they were at 10% scale, like the stock solar system. In real life, there are a lot bigger Near Earth Objects floating around than 30 meters diameter... (the maximum asteroid size in the stock game)

The "Potentially Hazardous Object" catalog maintained by NASA, for instance, is only defined as asteroids with diameter larger than 100 meters, that pass within 0.05 AU of Earth, and NASA had 1458 asteroids listed in February, 2014 (NEOWISE estimates indicate between 3500 and 6200 such asteroids exist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentially_hazardous_object

The config to alter the base asteroid sizes can be found at GameData/NASAmission/Parts/PotatoRoid/

Funny how the devs internally called them potatoes.

Regards,

Northstar

[NathanKell]

Makeone: TweakScale does not play nice with KW engines, I'd presume because of the combination of (1) non-1.0 scales for the MODELs involved and (2) multiple MODEL nodes.

Northstar1989: more a point for the RSS thread, but yes, I do plan to play with asteroids. Haven't had a chance yet.

[frisch]

I'm sorry, I don't know what a "node size" is. Is there a way to post the craft file here? Otherwise here is a dropbox link

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g23piibujpms92w/AABlzMMqqBxZdW1jdnSw-Jrla

I've restarted the game. The shaking apart happens when the rocket is near orbital speed, a few minutes into the Nervas burning (need to run at about 80% to avoid overheat). The shaking takes a few seconds to build, continues to destruction even with the engines off, and all guidance off.

(note, things blow up when you first stage, but nothing important).

I appreciate all the work the modders have done on the realism and real-scale stuff, its very impressive.

What node sizes are holding the parts together. Otherwise a craft file, and what other mods you are using to build it. If one of us can reproduce the problem, we can likely fix it.

[Woopert]

Is there a special config for TAC Life Support? I installed since after checking output_log I noticed some errors regarding life support. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to use the default, or if there is a realism cfg file for it.

[NathanKell]

Woopert: Aazard was working on one. Haven't seen her/him in a while though.

frisch: the nodes are those big green spheres you see inside the VAB. The size should correspond to the size of the joint. If not, you get problems. Are you using any Procedural Fairings fairing bases? They have bad node sizes.

[Woopert]

Ah, okay. Would ELCSS be okay to use? I think I heard it's not compatible with 0.23.5, so maybe no life support at all is the way to go (for now, at least) for Realism Overhaul. Although, installing TAC *did* somehow fix my KSP loading issues.

Oh, and since SFJackBauer hasn't been on for a while, I thought I'd point it out: in game, the RS-25D has a mass 5.2725 metric tons. In real life, it has a mass of around 3.177 metric tons. It would also help with my new SLS (using the Aerojet Kerbodyne pack) since it only has a 1.05 TWR at liftoff, whereas the real SLS Block I will have a TWR around 1.5 at liftoff (based off of my calculations).

[NathanKell]

RO comes with configs for ECLSS, but (for some users and situations) it causes problems. In the next major version (aka when I have time for it) RO will move to TAC.

All US engines that do not have their thrust structure included in their mass (that's most of them) have a guesstimated mass addition to account for that. (Example on S-IC: F-1 was only 8.391t, but the thrust structure for the five of them was 20 tons, so the F-1 is counted as a 12.391t engine in RealEngines.)

[Woopert]

I see. Also, is it *possible* to make Module Manager configs to change the volume/mass ratio for the Procedural Parts / Stretchy Tanks? I did some more calculations to find the difference of the real life SLS core stage compared to the Stretchy Tanks in-game.

Real Life SLS Core Stage: 13.647 m^3/kg

Stretchy Tanks: 11.991 m^3/kg

Would it be possible to use Module Manager to alter the volume per mass (or vice versa) of the tank?