Patupi Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) As far as game play depth goes I think it could definitely use more. The suggestion (I forgot who made it, sorry. Might even have been you taniwha ) that you cut out rocket parts and just gather metals together for construction seems good, but limiting it to just a few seems like the best bet.One alternative to the current Kethane based system is to adjust the mining amount levels. Perhaps (similar to the KSPI Method by Fractal UK) there could be a background level of all materials that mining could get anywhere, but VERY slowly, taking days or weeks to get anything useful, but the hotspots shown on the Kethane styled map are the significant deposits. That way you CAN, if you really want, have a single base mine everything you need to make ships, but it is very inefficient. It ends up better if you ship in materials from off site (even off planet) to a central construction site in the end.Having certain planets not have certain types of material at all (except for those background levels) would encourage shipping in from planet to planet without making it an absolute necessity.(EDIT: As to numbers of materials for construction... I'd limit it to a handful at most. Maybe copper, aluminum, iron, silicon, maybe add in generic 'minerals' to add into other metals for strengthening, add to silicon for semiconductors etc. Oh, and as to rust-resistance not being necessary... well, they do still need to land on Kerbin and Laythe on occasion, so it might be helpful And Minmus verdigris? Er, think actually needs an oxidizing atmosphere, *chuckles* but a nice thought.) Edited January 18, 2014 by Patupi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewelShisen Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 JewelShisen: The more pads out there, the better Well once I get it working it will replace the current HL pad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deredere Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) How do I into augurs? Do the things have to intersect the ground?Lunar beryllium seems to be about 6ppm (going by the one hit I looked at), not a lot, but how much is necessary? Also, while the moon and Earth are "made of the same material", that's only half true. Earth's average density is around 5.5t/m3. The moon's is around only 3.3t/m3. The heavy stuff just isn't there (though beryllium isn't heavy stuff, so this is just a "look, they are different).That's because Earth's iron core makes up a much larger percentage of the total mass of the body. Lunar regolith and the Earth's crust ought to be around the same density controlling for organic materials. Regolith is mostly basalt and plagioclase and the Earth's crust is mostly quartzite which are all in the 2.6-3.0 t/m3 range.I have come to the conclusion that EL's resource system is too simple to support much game-play depth, but I want to tread carefully. I want to make EL much more interesting to "play", but I don't want to bog the play down in too many details.I think that's awesome Edited January 18, 2014 by Deredere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patupi Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 How do I into augurs? Do the things have to intersect the ground?Yup, but the 'stems' of the drills have no collision otherwise so you don't need to worry about them colliding with anything during transport of your mining rig to it's final position. Thus them sticking down below the rocket, and even into the ground, doesn't matter for normal operations.That's because Earth's iron core makes up a much larger percentage of the total mass of the body. Lunar regolith and the Earth's crust ought to be around the same density controlling for organic materials. Regolith is mostly basalt and plagioclase and the Earth's crust is mostly quartzite which are all in the 2.6-3.0 t/m3 range.I think that's awesome Yup, since the current theory is that the Moon was blasted off the Earth after it had cooled somewhat and the core of Earth had already formed. The Moon is thus mostly made from Earth crustal material with a little of whatever body had struck the Earth to cause that material to break free. One theory I've seen says it's entirely crustal material, and that the impactor actually fused with Earth and is still here. Just the debris went on to make the Moon. Anyone know what the current, up-to-date, absolute latest theory is? My data is probably a few years out of date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 And Minmus verdigris? Er, think actually needs an oxidizing atmosphere, *chuckles* but a nice thought.)Perhaps early Minmus had a thin and possibly somewhat wet atmosphere, lost after a few thousand or million years, perhaps replenished by a bit of early outgassing, but that was quickly exhausted. Not there long, but long enough to oxidize a decent amount of its copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patupi Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I don't think that description will quite fly. If that were true only the top surface would be green, and thus when asteroids hit it there would be areas of grey beneath the pitted surface. True, Minmus doesn't show the huge cratering of the Mun, but the prominences all look pitted as if scoured by micrometeorites. I'm assuming the surface is just soft enough to cover large craters over time, and the truely huge ones were all captured by the Mun's larger gravity field. If the top surface were oxidized then millenia (at least) went by you'd have enough shifting to at very least have the surface a patchwork of green and grey.And all of this is pretty silly. Because of course the real reason it's green was a bombardment of mint comets a while ago. Hit so hard they saturated the surface down to the creamy filling... I mean the core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 I think Jebadiah put a surface sample on wikipedia: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donziboy2 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Yup, but the 'stems' of the drills have no collision otherwise so you don't need to worry about them colliding with anything during transport of your mining rig to it's final position. Thus them sticking down below the rocket, and even into the ground, doesn't matter for normal operations.Ya but it does kill the immersion to drive around in your awesome mining truck with the thing sticking into the ground the whole time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Since your test setup is stock+EL, getting me persistence/craft files might help.Alas, I was so pissed-off that I've removed EL mod. At least for now. Hope, it'll become more stable for my needs (in conjunction with KSP confusions, etc.). What's purpose from the mod when launchpads are exploding when they wish.Again, mod idea is totally marvelous. Luck with polishing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patupi Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Ya but it does kill the immersion to drive around in your awesome mining truck with the thing sticking into the ground the whole time....Well, you could use Infernal Robotics to hinge or slide them up out of the way if it's just looks you're going for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyCor Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Haven't found this specifically posted. Using the orbital building module (launchpad for building in orbit) when making a large ship it works perfectly, but when making something small it seems to go crazy and either fly off into space when released or cause explosions of varying degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deredere Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Yup, but the 'stems' of the drills have no collision otherwise so you don't need to worry about them colliding with anything during transport of your mining rig to it's final position. Thus them sticking down below the rocket, and even into the ground, doesn't matter for normal operations.Ah, thanks. That's what I was tripping over. I assumed the drills would cause unplanned disassemblies clipping the ground.Anyone know what the current, up-to-date, absolute latest theory is? My data is probably a few years out of date.Last I heard it was still collision with Mars-sized object that presumably was absorbed into Earth, but I'm not a geologist, exo- or otherwise, so. Edited January 19, 2014 by Deredere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Haven't found this specifically posted. Using the orbital building module (launchpad for building in orbit) when making a large ship it works perfectly, but when making something small it seems to go crazy and either fly off into space when released or cause explosions of varying degrees.That is very strange. Most of my testing has been with small ships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyCor Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Seems not to be limited to small ships for me after all. My latest large ship has had the same problem with the last 4 tries. Some ships work fine, others constantly blow everything up. Maybe it just doesn't like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Where is your station? Can you provide some screenshots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaa253 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Resource compatibility between mods is certainly not a problem, so long as us modders keep in touch. Or better yet, create (and use) a central collection of resource definitions.I believe that resource compatibility is very important. As a user of both the KSPI and TACLS mods it is very silly that there are two kinds of water (both made of H2O but with seemingly different densities). I was very pleased to find the KESA "project".http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/63798-0-23-Beta-KESA-Resource-Integration-v0-1-%28TACLS-KSPI-Water%29I can see that I will soon likely have two kinds of CO2. KSPI introduces a different kind of (electrical?) power - out of necessity. KSPI also adds a different kind of heat which is not the same as stock heat (as is used by Deadly Re-entry). There are already Kethane and Methane and perhaps liquid fuel is the same thing as Hydrogen and perhaps not; depends on whether you use the Real Fuels mod. It would be great if modders can keep in touch on the subject of resource integration. It might also make sense to have just one system (dll) to manage all mining and conversions and also mapping in fact (Kethane gets my vote here). My impression from this discussion (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/61714-Multiplayer-or-resources) is that if Squad ever expand the resources system it will be a long way off... therefore, to my thinking, it is an open area for modding.Last I heard it was still collision with Mars-sized object that presumably was absorbed into Earth, but I'm not a geologist, exo- or otherwise, so.There are many other theories out there for how the Earth/Moon double planet system formed but this one is still the leading theory (i.e. maybe 70% of Planetary Scientists agree ). I agree with Buzz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzz_Aldrin#Criticism_of_NASA.27s_2003_return-to-moon_objectives that Mars should be the main objective but there are plenty of really big questions that can be addressed by going back to the Moon.Sorry about the long post Edited January 20, 2014 by Kaa253 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patupi Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 At least as far as the resource mapping there is a problem. Kethane is a good mod, works well, and has a nice interface. But it doesn't do everything that other modders want in resource mapping and distribution. Majiir is gradually adjusting and upgrading it, but if another modder wanted to do things differently he'd have to wait for Majiir to (hopefully) make the adjustment he wanted. For example, right now Kethane can either give even distribution of material all over a planetary body or give the patches the standard mod gives, each patch being one deposit. If you wanted to have mining possible if you just moved one hex away from a 'mined out' hex it wouldn't work, unless laboriously mapping each planet with one hex deposits. This would do away with the random distribution. I understand Majiir is planning on making deposits work differently, hex to hex basis, but that will take time.Similarly, compare the two different methods of scanning between KSPI and Kethane. Both valid, each having different advantages and disadvantages. Standardizing on one would mean anything based on the other wouldn't work. For example Kethane is no longer utilizing the 2D pop up maps. If a modder wanted to do that he couldn't use the standard Kethane code without serious rework.I like the idea of standardizing resource definitions (hydrogen is hydrogen for different mods etc) and hope that can be done at least. More than that things might get rather complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Kaa253: Note that Kethane is not just a silly spelling for methane, but rather a mix of all sorts of organics (with dissolved xenon). One possibility is NH2CH2OH. Another is benzene rings with NHs and OH hanging off (more likely to trap xenon?)..But for the others... yeah, that's a pain, and why I haven't raced into implementing extended resources in EL.Patupi: Fortunately, resources themselves are rather separate from mapping (and extraction, they go hand-in-hand at this stage).However, Kethane's current generator is actually "obsolete". The only thing stopping me from adding a custom generator to EL is I haven't taken the time to study Majiir's API.The rest... well, yeah. I think once things settle down a bit, the mods will start coming together on the resource front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossman Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I cleaned up my smelter model a bit. Should I release it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patupi Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Simple answer.... yes! Looks way better than the existing model. How are the attachment points? That was the real bug-bear of the original. I wasn't too fussed with it being big or heavy, just that it was so awkward to mount anything too. Odd shape compounded with poor attachment points around the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyCor Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Where is your station? Can you provide some screenshots?Orbit above Kerbin, about 500k up. I took a screenshot but don't know how to post it on here :"> I'll see if I can pm it to you to help with finding if there is a bug somewhere Scratch that, this forum doesn't seem to have attachments with the the PMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossman Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Simple answer.... yes! Looks way better than the existing model. How are the attachment points? That was the real bug-bear of the original. I wasn't too fussed with it being big or heavy, just that it was so awkward to mount anything too. Odd shape compounded with poor attachment points around the thing.I haven't really playtested it so I'm not sure. They way the part .cfg is set up, it has 1 attach points on each end and that's it. You can of course attach stuff radially to it.I haven't used the original either to be fair so I can't really offer any comparison there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimMartland Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I cleaned up my smelter model a bit. http://puu.sh/6rFh9.jpgShould I release it?Great model. Maybe try cleaning up the connections between the side tubes and middle bit, its a bit strange. Also, a texture pass wouldnt hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Orbit above Kerbin, about 500k up. I took a screenshot but don't know how to post it on here :"> I'll see if I can pm it to you to help with finding if there is a bug somewhere Scratch that, this forum doesn't seem to have attachments with the the PMs.Ok, I haven't tested in high orbit (it might make a difference). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Space Man Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Is it still possible to use this mod without Kethane using debug mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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