[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[taniwha]

On 20/11/2016 at 8:09 AM, tsaven said:

Hey Taniwha, did this bug between UKS and EL ever get fixed or addressed?  It seems to still be a problem, even when using all the latest versions.

if you use UKS and launch build a craft with EL, most of the UKS parts will be created in the "Broken!" state because of the way UKS implements the Wear mechanic via a hidden (weightless, massless) resource of ReplacementParts.

Well, considering it's UKS adding the "requirement", I'd say it's a UKS problem, but creating a recipe is pretty easy.

On 20/11/2016 at 1:28 AM, Fireheart318 said:

When releasing craft with wheels or landing legs, they often get caught inside the launchpad/runway and are violently thrown into the air, landing upside down and usually damaged to the point of being inoperable.

This is because the wheel colliders are not getting detected properly. I doubt there's much I can do about it as it is probably due to the changes in wheel behavior between Unity 4.x and 5.x, and all the attendant changes in KSP. There is, however, something you can do: use the survey stakes to build the vessel a little off the ground, or use some launch clamps (maybe fake ones as I'm not sure how they behave with a pad (fine with survey stakes)).

On 16/11/2016 at 4:12 AM, The-Doctor said:

 

@taniwha hey, I really am interested in this mod, but it takes an insane amount of rocket parts just to build a rocket, is there anyway to reduce teh required resources to build one? Such as reducing the needed ore, metal and rocket parts, not reducing the needed fuel. Thanks

 

It takes an "insane" amount of rocket parts to build a rocket because EL works off mass, and rocket parts are fairly low density (as one would expect for parts: they're often mostly empty space, or don't pack well, or are packed with a lot of protective padding, or...).

[The-Doctor]

2 hours ago, taniwha said:

Well, considering it's UKS adding the "requirement", I'd say it's a UKS problem, but creating a recipe is pretty easy.

This is because the wheel colliders are not getting detected properly. I doubt there's much I can do about it as it is probably due to the changes in wheel behavior between Unity 4.x and 5.x, and all the attendant changes in KSP. There is, however, something you can do: use the survey stakes to build the vessel a little off the ground, or use some launch clamps (maybe fake ones as I'm not sure how they behave with a pad (fine with survey stakes)).

It takes an "insane" amount of rocket parts to build a rocket because EL works off mass, and rocket parts are fairly low density (as one would expect for parts: they're often mostly empty space, or don't pack well, or are packed with a lot of protective padding, or...).

so there is no way to reduce the amount of parts it uses?

[goldenpsp]

49 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

so there is no way to reduce the amount of parts it uses?

Well if you want to build a rocket that is say 50T, it will use about 50T of rocketparts.  Maybe you can adjust that via the recipes capabilities of EL (you are on your own to play with that) but it seems you are breaking some laws of physics if you can build a 50T rocket for say 25T of rocketparts.

[ss8913]

On 11/17/2016 at 2:43 PM, ThRodrigues said:

Any wrong word / phrase is google translator's fault ... I do not know English but I understand by google translate:

I have USI Kolonization Systems installed, I know that MKS changes the features needed for building, Rockparts is replaced by MaterialKits, but EL parts dealing with ScrapMetal, Metal Ore, Metal and RocketParts do not change function and become useless ... They should not be hidden from my eyes at least as it says on the homepage? Because they are still in the VAB for me and are many pieces ... already thanks for the great mod.

I don't think this is happening anymore.. in my 1.2.1 install I have MKS and EPL, but I still see the old EPL parts.  Not sure if that's a bug in an MKS MM patch or if it's something that EPL is doing/no longer doing, though.

[TheRagingIrishman]

@ThRodrigues @ss8913 RD got rid of the part of the patch that hid the EL parts because people would complain/submit bug reports when they couldn't find the now useless EL parts. Give me a few hours and I'll have a patch that will do hide them written, tested, and posted.

Edited November 22, 2016 by TheRagingIrishman

[TheRagingIrishman]

@ThRodrigues @ss8913 and anyone else who uses EL and MKS. I've made two ModuleManager config files that will prevent the original EL parts from loading. One will get rid of all EL parts except the Mallet and the Survey Stakes, https://goo.gl/HF11df, and the other will remove all EL production parts (stuff related to making/storing rocket parts) but will keep the EL launch pads, the EL survey station, and the EL Recyclers (because I use them sometimes), https://goo.gl/R1GJvN.

To install either of them, just download the file and plop it anywhere within KSP/GameData.

Edited November 22, 2016 by TheRagingIrishman

[Fireheart318]

On 11/20/2016 at 8:41 AM, taniwha said:

Wheel colliders and survey stakes

Can you describe the setup of a survey stake button-press-per-button-press (I'm a tad daft) please? I've tried just putting them in the ground with a mallet but it hasn't worked.

[taniwha]

Most importantly, when you place a stake using KAS, hold the X key (also note, you need to have the mallet equipped, however any kerbal can use a mallet) so that it surface attaches to the ground.

After placing the stake, you can right click it to change its settings: stake name (defaults to the placing kerbal's name (ksp thing), all stakes with the same name and within range of each other form a single site), stake "axis" (origin, +X +Y +Z -X -Y -Z: clicking the button cycles through the options), and whether the stake axis is for orientation (direction) or bounds. origin stakes are the same in either mode.

To take care of the wheel problem using stakes, you will need to place an extra stake in a slightly elevated place and change it to a -Y bounds stake. If your first stake is an origin stake, then builds will be as before, but a bit higher due to the -Y bounds stake.

I do hope to make some tutorial vids soon.

[sardia]

Just to make sure, but you can't satisfy contracts that call for putting bases by building them with EL, correct? IIRC there each part has a tag or id that stamps when it was created? Or can I happily finish contracts by constructing them in space or sending up a probe, to dock it with the requested parts constructed by EL?

[ss8913]

13 hours ago, Fireheart318 said:

Can you describe the setup of a survey stake button-press-per-button-press (I'm a tad daft) please? I've tried just putting them in the ground with a mallet but it hasn't worked.

in VAB/SPH, set a seat's inventory to contain a mallet and 4 survey stakes.  make sure you put a kerbal in that seat.  Make sure you have an EL survey station or something equivalent like an MKS pioneer module on the craft.  Make sure you have enough RocketParts (base EPL) or MaterialKits/SpecializedParts (with MKS) on the craft.

Go where you want to build.  Drive the four stakes in a square/rectangle pattern.. right click them, set to Y-

Put your kerbal back in the craft. Open the EL build menu, should be on the blizzy toolbar.  Pick the base/ship/etc you want to build.  Build it.

[TheRagingIrishman]

For those of you who downloaded one of the two ModuleManager config files that I posted yesterday, you really should download the newest update (from the same link). I did some testing and found that the original configs were deleting one or two non-EL parts so I went through and fixed that.

[Beetlecat]

3 hours ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

For those of you who downloaded one of the two ModuleManager config files that I posted yesterday, you really should download the newest update (from the same link). I did some testing and found that the original configs were deleting one or two non-EL parts so I went through and fixed that.

Really cool -- thank you @TheRagingIrishman -- I was considering just using The Janitor's Closet to prune out parts, but this is great!  Do these configs keep the game from loading them -- or simply keep them from appearing?

[TheRagingIrishman]

25 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

Really cool -- thank you @TheRagingIrishman -- I was considering just using The Janitor's Closet to prune out parts, but this is great!  Do these configs keep the game from loading them -- or simply keep them from appearing?

 

 

Ya I used Janitor's Closet but it was getting annoying having to manually select each part.

AFAIK they stop the game from loading them. It uses MM delete function on the whole part. I could have made them just not show up by instead editing the parts and changing tech node and category but I didn't.

Edited November 23, 2016 by TheRagingIrishman

[DStaal]

29 minutes ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

Ya I used Janitor's Closet but it was getting annoying having to manually select each part.

AFAIK they stop the game from loading them. It uses MM delete function on the whole part. I could have made them just not show up by instead editing the parts and changing tech node and category but I didn't.

MM happens after the assets are loaded - so it just keeps them from appearing, it can't keep KSP from loading them.  They aren't in the game at all, but unless KSP has gotten smarter in the last couple of months you're still out the memory.

[Beetlecat]

7 minutes ago, DStaal said:

MM happens after the assets are loaded - so it just keeps them from appearing, it can't keep KSP from loading them.  They aren't in the game at all, but unless KSP has gotten smarter in the last couple of months you're still out the memory.

That jives with what modest amounts I've learned about how KSP does things.  Maybe a full prune using Janitor's Closet is a good idea, then.

[schlosrat]

Hi I'm still new to using this mod and I've got a question about how the mod handles building inventory in a craft.

I've designed a lander with a survey station, rocket parts, etc. I've placed a hammer and a bunch of survey stakes into the inventory on each seat. These show up when I load the craft in the VAB, so they're part of the craft file. I subsequently built a copy of this craft using an orbital facility and sent it down to the surface with four kerbals so they could build a surface outpost, but when I got there I discovered there were zero inventory items in the craft.

Is this normal behavior? I know I have to transfer fuel to craft when I build them, but do I somehow have to transfer inventory too?

Is it possible to build the stakes I need somehow? I would have expected them to be built with the craft.

Confused.

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, schlosrat said:

Hi I'm still new to using this mod and I've got a question about how the mod handles building inventory in a craft.

I've designed a lander with a survey station, rocket parts, etc. I've placed a hammer and a bunch of survey stakes into the inventory on each seat. These show up when I load the craft in the VAB, so they're part of the craft file. I subsequently built a copy of this craft using an orbital facility and sent it down to the surface with four kerbals so they could build a surface outpost, but when I got there I discovered there were zero inventory items in the craft.

Is this normal behavior? I know I have to transfer fuel to craft when I build them, but do I somehow have to transfer inventory too?

Is it possible to build the stakes I need somehow? I would have expected them to be built with the craft.

Confused.

Seat inventory is basically the Kerbal's pockets - if you were to launch that same craft from the KSC launchpad without crew the inventory wouldn't be their either - it's only there if you have a Kerbal in the seat at launch.  You need KIS storage - something like one of the KIS storage containers.  They hold the inventory without having a Kerbal.

Basically, you need a part that has an 'inventory' button, not a 'seat inventory' button.

This is something that's been discussed over on the KIS thread quite a bit recently, and I think the current plan is to remove seat inventory altogether as to confusing.

[schlosrat]

8 hours ago, DStaal said:

Seat inventory is basically the Kerbal's pockets - if you were to launch that same craft from the KSC launchpad without crew the inventory wouldn't be their either - it's only there if you have a Kerbal in the seat at launch.  You need KIS storage - something like one of the KIS storage containers.  They hold the inventory without having a Kerbal.

Basically, you need a part that has an 'inventory' button, not a 'seat inventory' button.

This is something that's been discussed over on the KIS thread quite a bit recently, and I think the current plan is to remove seat inventory altogether as to confusing.

Thanks! That's good to know. This will be very helpful to me.

[Psyden]

I have had EPL on 1.1.3, 1.2, and 1.2.1, and I can't seem to get it working. I am using the full suite of ISU and Wild Blue mods, and I can't seem to get any of the orbital dockyards to work. I can't even get the EPL button to appear in the tool bar.

 

I do, however, have access to all the ELP part, so I don't think it is a problem with the install (though I won't rule that out). I have used a variety of combinations of parts, with and without ELP parts, and with both RocketParts and MaterialKits.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

[taniwha]

@Psyden, do you have Module Manager installed? It is required for giving kerbals the necessary skills (survey for pilots, construction for engineers).

BTW, anybody got suggestions for how to make scientists useful for EL? I haven't come up with anything yet, so I suspect EL's current feature-set doesn't really support scientists (I do have some uses for them in another mod I'm working on, but it's still way too WIP to mention in anything but passing).

[sardia]

Have scientists improve productivity a mechanic where you bring them with you?

[DStaal]

I'm not sure I'd expect scientists to be useful in a situation like EL - they'd be doing other things, but building things is really a job for mechanics and engineers.  And it's not like scientists aren't useful in KSP, in stock they are arguably the most useful profession, so I'm not sure this needs to address making them useful.

[Psyden]

Yup, I have MM, as well as KIS and KAS.

 

I also have a bunch of parts packs, some science packs, some auto-pilots as well as, KSPI-E, Hangar, and Kopernicus.

I could give you a full list of all the mods I am running if you think there could be any compatibility issues.

 

Oh, whilst going through and checking to verify that, yes I did have MM, I noticed that I have 3 .dll for MM, 2.7.1, 2.7.2, and 2.7.3

I am not super familiar with how MM works, so I don't want to just go and delete them, since they were put there (I assume) by other mods as dependencies. If it doesn't hurt anything, I'll clean them up later.

[TheRagingIrishman]

10 hours ago, Psyden said:

Oh, whilst going through and checking to verify that, yes I did have MM, I noticed that I have 3 .dll for MM, 2.7.1, 2.7.2, and 2.7.3

I am not super familiar with how MM works, so I don't want to just go and delete them, since they were put there (I assume) by other mods as dependencies. If it doesn't hurt anything, I'll clean them up later.

1

You should only have 1 MM in your GameData folder (don't worry about mods because all recent versions of MM are backwards compatible). It (probably) won't fix your EL problem but it will make sure that MM can do what it's supposed to do. Also, the latest version of MM is 2.7.4

[Psyden]

@TheRagingIrishmanThanks, I've updated to MM 2.7.4 and removed the extra versions, still no such luck. At this point, I am sure I've screwed up somewhere along the way. I've always seemed to be... inventive when coming up with errors.

 

@taniwha To me, it would make sense for the scientists to be able do surveys, since they are the ones with that fancy kerbalized book-learnin', but then that would leave the pilots without anything to do, except fly. Maybe a special experiment where they can watch a ship being constructed and gain some small amount of science with a biome-specific boost, as they observe how environmental factors effect construction? Possibly with this giving boosts to construction times whilst in that biome?

Edited November 25, 2016 by Psyden