[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[UnanimousCoward]

4 hours ago, Nicky21 said:

is there some variable in some file i need to modify ? Please help !

You can do it with an MM patch, at least. This is one I've had kicking around for ages. I hope the code is still valid.

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ExWorkshop]]
{
	@MODULE[ExWorkshop] {
		@ProductivityFactor *= 0.01
	}
}

This will slow it down to 1% of the usual speed; adjust the value "0.01" as appropriate.

[taniwha]

6 hours ago, UnanimousCoward said:

 

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ExWorkshop]]
{
	@MODULE[ExWorkshop] {
		@ProductivityFactor *= 0.01
	}
}

 

This works, but had the effect of removing the "fully equipped" status (meaning kerbals must have some experience). Minimum productivity factor for fully equipped is 1, but this can be overridden by adding FullyEquipped = true to the config. Depends on what you want to achieve, really.

That said, EL's construction rate is actually not that far off being realistic. The problem lies mainly in the smelting (MetalOre to Metal conversion) and manufacturing (Metal to RocketParts) stages. RocketParts is meant to represent pre-assembled components that can be put together at a reasonable rate (of about five hours per ton with only one kerbal). The productivity factor of 5 on the big workshop is meant to represent a very high-end workshop.

It's not often I get complaints about EL being too fast .

[DStaal]

7 minutes ago, taniwha said:

It's not often I get complaints about EL being too fast .

I think partly it's that there's something to compare it to.  On it's own, meh.  It feels a bit fast, but nothing worth thinking about.  The fact that the same size crew can complete an expedition ship to Duna, and it's lander, in less time than GC takes to build a drilling station makes the difference stand out.  I do play with both, and like their overall interaction - but the speed comparison is odd - GC should be like building from IKEA, while EL is building from lumber.  I can build a table pretty fast either way, but IKEA it'll take less than an hour, while lumber's going to take me most of a day, probably.

[Nicky21]

That's because people are smelting the stuff on the spot wich takes time. I use transports to transport the materials to the building site.

[taniwha]

31 minutes ago, DStaal said:

I do play with both, and like their overall interaction - but the speed comparison is odd - GC should be like building from IKEA, while EL is building from lumber.  I can build a table pretty fast either way, but IKEA it'll take less than an hour, while lumber's going to take me most of a day, probably.

EL is like building from IKEA. The confusion comes from EL supplying the rest of the production chain (including resource extraction), and that RocketParts is rather generic (but consider why it has a density of 0.5t/m³, and it possibly should be lower). Metal is EL's "lumber", not RocketParts.

31 minutes ago, Nicky21 said:

That's because people are smelting the stuff on the spot wich takes time. I use transports to transport the materials to the building site.

Smelting stuff on the spot doesn't take enough time, actually. And "milling" metal into parts is also way too fast. Only mining and actual construction are in the right ballpark.

Anyway, I am NOT saying "don't slow EL down". Rather, I'm saying that there are some more knobs to consider tweaking, and EL's speed issues (which it does have!) may not be where you think they are. That is, all I want to do is give you some food for thought.

[edit] Heck, the other day, I showed a person how to configure EL to go direct from Ore to rockets ("mud rockets").

Edited March 28, 2018 by taniwha

[DStaal]

8 minutes ago, taniwha said:

EL is like building from IKEA. The confusion comes from EL supplying the rest of the production chain (including resource extraction), and that RocketParts is rather generic (but consider why it has a density of 0.5t/m³, and it possibly should be lower). Metal is EL's "lumber", not RocketParts.

So probably part of the perception in my case is that I'm not using that production chain - I’m using the USI production chain, building using MaterialKits and SpecializedParts.     Heck, SP are a pain to build, and probably fairly close to fully assembled 'kits' for some of the parts in question.  So for me EL and GC are building from basically the same materials - GC doesn't use SpecializedParts (yet), but it has a DIY kit that should have the equivalent parts/mass.

Anyway - thanks for the info, and to @UnanimousCoward for the MM snippet.  It sounds like I can slow down EL a bit, and GC has a way to speed it up, so I should be able to get them feeling like they're both at least working with the same level of tech, instead of one with Replicators and one with Rocks. 

[taniwha]

Yeah, a production chain that makes incompatible assumptions can result in bogus production rates.

BTW, I do plan on breaking the hard-coding of 5 kerbal-hours/ton, I just haven't found a good way to specify it yet (doesn't help that I haven't been able to dedicate enough time to the problem). Just throwing in a quick config var is not enough: I want it to be fairly fine-grained.

[mrstoned]

Myself, running with USI mods, i use EL to construct the DIY-kit's from included GC in USI, which i then "build" with the assemblyplants in Tundra or duna-series on groundbase.

I simulate it with the ability to 3d-print stuff on the orbiting spacestation or on the ground, land the parts and assemble on ground. I have not tied a diy-kit in space (yet).

 

/Rikard

[taniwha]

Time for a status update...

I have EL's new converter working now, just doing some tweaks to things like part thermal properties, designing a conversion recipe for the scrap metal remelter, and coming up with something for the metal to parts converter.

It took 1600u of LFO to get my test smelter up to 25% efficiency (can't exceed about 51%), netting me 15.11u of Metal. I can see why the big smelters never shut down.

Anyway, hopefully I'll be able to do a release soon.

[DracoSilverpath]

Just out of curiosity, can this be installed into an existing career, or will it force you to make a new game? I've finally got most of the mods I want for my playthrough on 1.4, and this is one of the last ones i'm waiting on

[taniwha]

@DracoSilverpath It can be installed into an existing career.

[Platonicsolid]

Hi! Trying to write myself a little EPL patch and am not sure if what I want to do is possible - I'm certainly not doing it right. I want to be able to have stations that can build their own expansions and then integrate them, since I'm using GPP and some will be *very* far from home. I'm using EPL and most of the USI packs, so I can build a module on-site and then move it with thrusters to the appropriate construction port and then integrate it. But what I'd like to do is be able to build at the port I'm going to attach the new module to, and then just collapse it, to avoid all the tedium/complexity of redocking things.

 Here's the patch I wrote to add launch functionality to ports:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]]:AFTER[EXTRAPLANETARYLAUNCHPADS]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ExLaunchPad
		SpawnHeightOffset = 0.3
	}
}

This works and lets me build wherever I want. As long as I have a port as the bottom part of the assembly, it's aligned correctly, but I can't actually dock it. I think what's happening is EPL is making the assemblies attach but not 'dock', so Konstruction doesn't recognize it as a pair of docked ports. So, is there a way to tell EPL to spawn new things as 'docked'? 

(And maybe this is a Konstruction question, but I figured I'd try here first).

Thanks!

[taniwha]

@Platonicsolid: Actually, the upcoming EL release (Real Soon Now*) has exactly the functionality you're trying to hack together, and then some: A micro-pad (1.25m part) that can can be "carried" (ahem) by a kerbal and placed where needed (or placed in the VAB/SPH, of course). It is just just the same as the orbital dock or survey station, except that when you finalize the build, the pad self-destructs and the built craft is welded to where the pad was.

However, for your hack... try releasing the vessel, though I suspect that might not work.

* Updating the manual, and maybe one issue to fix (debating whether to hold up the release for it as the fix would NOT break saves).

[theJesuit]

34 minutes ago, taniwha said:

@Platonicsolid: Actually, the upcoming EL release (Real Soon Now*) has exactly the functionality you're trying to hack together, and then some: A micro-pad (1.25m part) that can can be "carried" (ahem) by a kerbal and placed where needed (or placed in the VAB/SPH, of course). It is just just the same as the orbital dock or survey station, except that when you finalize the build, the pad self-destructs and the built craft is welded to where the pad was.

Awesomesauce.  One assumes  that in the new build (that is welded onto the building craft) it could include a new micro-pad and therfore build further extensions?

That is all.  Peace.

[taniwha]

20 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

One assumes  that in the new build (that is welded onto the building craft) it could include a new micro-pad and therfore build further extensions?

Indeed, the new build can include any number of new micro-pads. However, I strongly recommend naming them in the VAB/SPH as "pad-N" becomes bewildering pretty quickly (just 3 pads had me confused). Thus why pads can be (and are by default) highlighted.

[Platonicsolid]

11 hours ago, taniwha said:

@Platonicsolid: Actually, the upcoming EL release (Real Soon Now*) has exactly the functionality you're trying to hack together, and then some: A micro-pad (1.25m part) that can can be "carried" (ahem) by a kerbal and placed where needed (or placed in the VAB/SPH, of course). It is just just the same as the orbital dock or survey station, except that when you finalize the build, the pad self-destructs and the built craft is welded to where the pad was.

However, for your hack... try releasing the vessel, though I suspect that might not work.

* Updating the manual, and maybe one issue to fix (debating whether to hold up the release for it as the fix would NOT break saves).

That sounds like exactly what I was thinking of! 

I've tried releasing the vessel with my hack, and it appears that behaves more like a decoupler - I get the coupler noise and the new assembly is pushed away with some force, too fast for me to try to get it to redock easily.

[taniwha]

@Platonicsolid: that sounds like your offset wasn't quite enough: you had intersecting colliders.

Anyway, I've got the docs updated. I'm just waiting on some initial feedback and I'll go over the docs again to see if there's anything I want to add. I expect a release this weekend.

[Platonicsolid]

4 hours ago, taniwha said:

@Platonicsolid: that sounds like your offset wasn't quite enough: you had intersecting colliders.

Appears to be right! I bumped up the offset a bit and now it behaves the way I expect - release gets me to coupled, not drifting away. Thanks!

[Darinth]

Sounds like some awesome new stuff! Orbital space station construction sounds awesome. Look forward to being able to play with it.

[bunjatec]

construction attach points sounds great, this is kinda what I've been using docking ports for.

My biggest gripe was when you build a SS node on a port then forgot to release it before it get itself into a weird broken docking situation where I couldn't then release it.  my workaround was to build on a different size docking port then released and maneuver into place with a tug. 

(Btw I tend to use this mod via NSSC as I prefer the stok drill/ISRU/ore combo in it's simplicity, rather than the more realistic smelter route) 

Keep up the good work.. Thanks!

 

[taniwha]

I have released version 6.0.0 of Extraplanetary Launchpads.

Changes from 5.9.0:

• Very basic support for unmanned construction. Workshops now have an UnmannedProductivity field that defaults to 0. Setting this will allow for unmanned production. It is NOT multiplied by the productivity factor.
• [SAVE BREAKING] All EL modules have been renamed to be of the form ELModuleName. It might be possible to port old saves by doing appropriate search-and-replace edits in the save file.
• New module interface: ELControlInterface. This is so mods can control and query the operation of EL's equipment (pads, the recycler).
• New part: MicroPad (KS-MP Disposable Pad). This is a small pad used for marking where a build is to be attached to the parent ship. When finalizing the build, the pad explodes and is replaced by the build which has been "permanently" attached to the parent ship. The micro-pad can be carried and placed using KIS, or attached in the VAB or SPH.
• Patch the stock fuel cells to be approximately 40% efficient (instead of 1.3%). This assumes 6MJ/kg is available from LFO (may be more (and potentially is because LF+O is not stoichiometric)) and that 1u of ElectricCharge = 1kJ. Thus the fuel cells produce six times the ElectricCharge and consume one fifth the LFO.
• The build button is disabled when builds cannot be started.
• Resource Manager. Right clicking on EL's app-button brings up a resource manager window. Tanks are grouped into modules separated by various separator parts (docking ports, decouplers, etc) allowing for much simplified transfer of resources in complex vessels. Also includes the ability to mass control a tank's flow status. Transfers involving multiple sources or destinations are balanced, as are transfers involving parts in symmetry. This might eventually be broken out into a separate mod.
• Build window cleaned up a little.
• [SAVE BREAKING] Workshop "network" moved into a vessel module. This should result in more efficient operation as workshops no longer update every frame. It is also a first step towards better background operation and should fix the problem of instantaneous builds occurrent when starting a build on a vessel that has not been visited for many game years. May break saves that have in-progress builds.
• Workshops can now have both internal and external seats.
• Auger PAW buttons now make sense: Deploy/Retract gone, start/stop converter named appropriately.
• Fix an ambiguous reference exception when Kethane is installed.
• Hopefully fix builds getting stuck at the very end (caused by erroneous epsilon checks).
• Launchpad rename window plays better with input locks and keyboard input (enter/escape supported).
• [SAVE BREAKING] Smelter model rotated such that the trough is at the bottom in the SPH. Also, the collider makes sense.
• Converters now use recipes, separating resource ratio configuration and production rate configuration.
• MetalOre density tweaked to be in line with hematite.
• [SAVE BREAKING] Smelter (both MetalOre->Metal and ScrapMetal->Metal) now requires LiquidFuel and Oxidizer to operate, in considerable quantities: once the smelter is warmed up the mass of LFO is a little over the mass of produced metal. Production is much slower than before (~4kg/s vs 96kg/s for the large smelter).
• [SAVE BREAKING] RocketParts production is much more realistic: about 0.2kg/s instead of 13.65kg/s (at 45u/s EC instead of 10) for the large workshop.
• New part: control reference that can be toggled via an action group.
• Hopefully fix the problems associated with unloaded survey stakes.
• Part titles edited for better sorting.

Note that the changes marked [SAVE BREAKING] might not break your save, it all depends how how you've used those parts or how tight your resource budgets are.

This version was developed and compiled against 1.4.1 but tested with 1.4.0 and 1.4.2 as well. Thus the AVC version file states 1.4.1 and will erroneously flag 1.4.0 and 1.4.2. However, I don't pack MiniAVC, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Edited April 7, 2018 by taniwha

[Getsome2030]

Awesome! thanks so much for your time and efforts on this mod.

[Warezcrawler]

wow, that's a lot of changes. Can't wait to see it in game!

[korniton]

Hey all,

 

Ive been waiting for the mod to update as im using 1.4.2 now. I have no idea what Im doing wrong. I have a construction workshop, 3400 rocket parts, engineers and a stick in the ground. I dont know how to construct stuff? When I left click the EL button nothing happens, when I right click it I get the resource transfer window. 

 

I see no way of selecting a vessel to be build. I tried a lot of things and am getting desperate now. Any help?

 

EDIT: The stick doesnt work, every otehr platform does. But when I cancel or pause a build a get catapulted into Nirvana. And game gets stuck.

Edited April 7, 2018 by korniton

[LatiMacciato]

hiyas!

should this line stay this way in my persistant save file?
 

Spoiler

SCENARIO
	{
		name = ExSettings
		scene = 5, 6, 7, 8
		Settings
		{
			UseKAC = True
			KACAction = KillWarp
			PreferBlizzy = True
			ShipInfo
			{
				rect = 1564,38,300,434
				visible = True
			}
			BuildWindow
			{
				rect = 616,186,695,192
				visible = False
				link_lfo_sliders = True
			}
		}
	}

 

or should "name = ELSettings"?