[TechTree] [0.23.5] Ackander's Vertical Tech Tree - Release v1.16 - May 13, 2014

[Xat]

If it's not too late, can you screenshot this please? I'll try to see what's up.

Mods I use:

[Ackander]

2vwsew2

Mods I use:

9q8zl5

Wow.. ok. My imagination is not coming up with any reasons or solutions for this yet, except it looks like a combination of parent connections for all those nodes do not exist or are hidden and some other reason for some of those nodes whose parents are for sure never hidden because they have stock parts in them... as in "hide if empty" is messing it up, but then again some of the nodes visible aren't even touching potentially hidden nodes. Still need more information. Can you research any of the grey nodes that are revealed that shouldn't be?

I know I shouldn't, but can I assume you have TreeLoader as well?

As an exercise in possible futility, will you check this for me?

• </p><p>
• Back up your persistent.sfs save, or not, it's up to you.
  
• go into persistent.sfs and find the research and development scenario, ctrl+f "tech" will get you there quick
  
• delete all the tech{} entries except start, basic rocketry, logic, investigative method, simple science tech, electrics, basic liquid engines, and introductory stability
  
• if no other tech{} entries are there besides those^, then the tree.cfg is messed up somehow. What is the last modified date on it?
  
• see if its better
  

Edited December 6, 2013 by Ackander

[Xat]

Unlocked all the nodes that didn't have connection to my previous unlocks.

Here you have the persistents file

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2yn3zz

I myself will wait for new veresion. Also I think the issues are mostly related to VetTech as it also modifies some of the stuff in game.

[Ackander]

Unlocked all the nodes that didn't have connection to my previous unlocks.

...

Here you have the persistents file

...

I myself will wait for new veresion. Also I think the issues are mostly related to VetTech as it also modifies some of the stuff in game.

Are you using TreeLoader? And one last favor to ask, can I see your copy of tree.cfg that you downloaded from me?

[Xat]

Are you using TreeLoader? And one last favor to ask, can I see your copy of tree.cfg that you downloaded from me?

Yeap I do, did all you asked at start, load stock tree. Close game put tree.cfg start game. Image cut out the full name of TreeLoader folder FYI

tree cfg

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tphe2v

[Ackander]

Yeap I do, did all you asked at start, load stock tree. Close game put tree.cfg start game. Image cut out the full name of TreeLoader folder FYI

tree cfg

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tphe2v

Yep, thanks.

I've been trying to figure it out for a while now. As near as I can tell TreeLoader cannot see most of the non-stock node parenthood.. But when I load the game with TreeEdit, it works fine. I want to try renaming the node names next. So, until this is fixed or I figure out how to fix it from my end I guess my tree won't work without TreeEdit, which is less than Ideal, if only because of the F5 thing.

[123nick]

Yep, thanks.

I've been trying to figure it out for a while now. As near as I can tell TreeLoader cannot see most of the non-stock node parenthood.. But when I load the game with TreeEdit, it works fine. I want to try renaming the node names next. So, until this is fixed or I figure out how to fix it from my end I guess my tree won't work without TreeEdit, which is less than Ideal, if only because of the F5 thing.

its actualy ok with tree edit, just go to the tech tree list and reload ackanders tree again. should mostly work.

[DancingWind]

It's quite intentional, actually.

You should think of this tech tree as playing KSP in story mode. There was a time when the Kerbals had no rockets. Instead of the usual science grind like the one you might be used to, I'm giving you the means to imagine being a kerbal administratengineer from before there were rockets, gazing up at the Mun and stars and the sun moving across the huge empty sky in abject wonder and belated misery that you don't know what the heck lies up.. above the ground, when suddenly you are hit by inspiration, and a rock because you live underground when the inspiration hit you too, and you start getting ideas and images in your mind of walking among the stars and touching the Mun and some of the faster moving stars, if only there was a means to leave the ground.. the ground that gives you life, but you feel hope when you think of up above, hope for excitement, for adventure, for chaos bound by moments of crystal clear order, so you make a deal with yourself that you will find out what is above and you need help, because you don't have the faintest idea of how to go about getting away from Kerbin, which is why you organize your fellow kerbal and share your wild ideas and dreams of a new and better and exciting future, up on the surface and beyond, perhaps among the Mun and stars, so a whole heap of kerbals rise with you at your back to the surface, the desolate and sparsely vegetated surface and there, yes there by the big outside lake you stand tall and proud as your adventurous group shape and build the land into something new, something better, something fearful like when you are young and you know there's nothing in the lake, but you still worry about something finding you and getting you but no more for you are an adult now and no fear of the unknown will stop you, or your brethren as you build the most magnificent and glorious of structures arrayed in a compound there by the big water so big and vast like the dark sea of stars above in the night sky that you know with all your being you will see and touch and maybe taste like the future glory and victory when you finally get there but first, always first, you must look about you, you and your people, you must figure it out for everyone’s sake, not just your own fulfilment of twisted and weird feelings and dreams, dreams that you have when you sleep and when you stare awake at the sky and oh how you're tired now, tired and ready to begin your journey to somewhere, but first you must sleep, perhaps in one of them metal tents with transparent rock windows that someone found earlier and started reproducing them for everyone to sleep in, because they are only big enough for one kerbal to fit into and sleep in like you are doing right now, snagging your strange new suit on which was likewise just found that keeps you so comfortable and warm feeling until you wake up, dazed and tired still inside the metal tent with windows when you notice something, something odd and new, like the scent of newly discovered flowers that you just normally forget about not too soon afterward, but this time, it is different, for you decide to write down what you're noticing in a report thing so others can read it and learn from it, but for now, you need to get back in your tent because you're still tired, so you write another report thing after you get in about your situation within the tent, after which you try to figure out who you're going to give the reports to because you know someone must see them, they need to see the reports so you and your kind can gain new knowledge and understanding and perhaps someday have the ability to go up, far up, and touch the Mun with your own hands, but first the reports must be made by your kerbal people, and turned in, so you go to the top of that new structure they built and sit and give orders and directions and plan and scheme to be ready for the time when kerbals are ready to leave the ground...... aaaaannnd that’s when you get to grind the science.

By my reckoning, you only need 25 science points to get small SRBs, and another 50 to get liquid fuel capability. In only a couple of flightless launches, you should be able to gather enough science in and around the KSC to really start taking off, as it were. You really do not need parachutes if you have liquid rockets, and probably can skip solid booster only flight because you have some much science after a little while. There are 124.8 159.6 non-flight required science points from surface samples and reports in and around KSC, which includes the three nearest biomes. The journey is a challenge we must all face.. we might as well make it mean something in a meaningful way along the way.

Then we seriously need a donkey wagon mod - we could even integrate into it biomass resource system or is that too high tech for starters?

Well its your mod but if you want it to be age of empires type game just make it clear in description. What I came looking in this mod is a more granulated and logical progression not back to bicycles (UUUh another mod idea )

Also Realfuels type parts upgrade system would be nice. Maybe even a simple counter system, something like engine technologies give a 1-2% percent bonus to engine ISP or thrust and material sciences reduce parts mass by a couple percent. Nothing earth shaterring but after a bunch of upgrades noticeble (like latest shuttle engines run at something 111% power compared to base models due to minor tweaks over the years). These counters may be even improved by number of successful missions.

[Ackander]

Then we seriously need a donkey wagon mod - we could even integrate into it biomass resource system or is that too high tech for starters?

Well its your mod but if you want it to be age of empires type game just make it clear in description. What I came looking in this mod is a more granulated and logical progression not back to bicycles (UUUh another mod idea )

Also Realfuels type parts upgrade system would be nice. Maybe even a simple counter system, something like engine technologies give a 1-2% percent bonus to engine ISP or thrust and material sciences reduce parts mass by a couple percent. Nothing earth shaterring but after a bunch of upgrades noticeble (like latest shuttle engines run at something 111% power compared to base models due to minor tweaks over the years). These counters may be even improved by number of successful missions.

I understand.

[BoZo]

You're doing god's work son, keep at it.

[Ackander]

Until further notice, the Vertical TechTree will only work with the TreeEdit Plugin installed (under normal cirmcumstances (I'm sure nobody has all the mods I have installed right now)).

[Ackander]

Here is the research and development lab in a newly started game. All I did was take TreeEdit out, and copy in the download version of tree.cfg. I did the same earlier, but with only the mods Xat is using installed, and got the same results as him. If anyone's curious.

[Oninoni]

I found Xat's Problem:

When the Structure in the tree-file is like This:

-Node1:

-Node2:

parent:Node1

then it works...

The problem is in some of the Node these are flipped:

-Node2:

parent:Node1

-Node1:

So the Game doesn't know what's Note1 is when it read's the file from the Top to the Bottom. To fix this you have to reposition the Nodes in the File. I did this with a few Notes and it works!

I love your Tree but this should be fixed.

Oninoni

Edit 1: I'm using just TreeLoader (I dunno if this is a problem of TreeLoader)

Edited December 7, 2013 by Oninoni

[fronbow]

(I'm sure nobody has all the mods I have installed right now)

I think I'm pretty close to having them all installed - though I have had to tweak the graphics settings a bit (If only there was a 64bit Steam and KSP version that would address all 16Gb of my RAM!!)

So the Game doesn't know what's Node1 is when it read's the file from the Top to the Bottom. To fix this you have to reposition the Nodes in the File. I did this with a few Nodes and it works!

This makes sense (from a programming background!) - I would've thought this was read sequentially as well!

[Holo]

I've been making an AAR based on this tech tree, once I put it on the forums maybe people who think it isn't awesome will change their mind.

[Tyrador]

Ackander you put a lot of great work into it, well done! Do you plan to add Service Module System ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52362-0-22-Sum-Dum-Heavy-Industries-Service-Module-System-(V1-4) ) to this mod? And Asmi's ECLSS mod ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58127-0-22-asmi-s-ECLSS-Mod-(current-version-1-0-12)-Life-Support-Mod )

Edited December 7, 2013 by Tyrador

[Wampa842]

Sorry I missed your comment. By now you probably see what I was going for. I'll be changing some things a bit though.. to make more sense if not more fun. Or more sense to me at least..

It actually does make sense (in a Kerbal way of common sense that is). I never even thought about using two command pods as a makeshift rover.

Thanks for clarifying things.

[Ackander]

I found Xat's Problem:

When the Structure in the tree-file is like This:

-Node1:

-Node2:

parent:Node1

then it works...

The problem is in some of the Node these are flipped:

-Node2:

parent:Node1

-Node1:

So the Game doesn't know what's Note1 is when it read's the file from the Top to the Bottom. To fix this you have to reposition the Nodes in the File. I did this with a few Notes and it works!

I love your Tree but this should be fixed.

Oninoni

Edit 1: I'm using just TreeLoader (I dunno if this is a problem of TreeLoader)

This is hopeful then. So you are saying it is the order in tree.cfg that the nodes are in that affects this? However, these are fact on my computer as observed by me: nodes have all connections when TreeEdit is loaded, and TreeLoader doesn't disappear connections if all mod parts are installed that were sorted into the tree to begin with.

[Ackander]

I think I'm pretty close to having them all installed - though I have had to tweak the graphics settings a bit (If only there was a 64bit Steam and KSP version that would address all 16Gb of my RAM!!)

Everyone with 64bit systems will agree with you, for the most part, me included, very much so in fact. I could go on, but you get the point.

This makes sense (from a programming background!) - I would've thought this was read sequentially as well!

I will see what I can do with this information. Thanks guys.

[Ackander]

I've been making an AAR based on this tech tree, once I put it on the forums maybe people who think it isn't awesome will change their mind.

Well, the problem is that it is not awesome. I designed it as an egotistical engineerocrat and not a good one at that, but anyway, it has flaws that did not present themselves during my limited play testing. Most testing really happened in mental simulations. They work for if I'm playing, but could not displace the player from me to others. It will be adequate, I think, after a few revisions perhaps. I will only stop working on it when there is no more interest or nobody has anything against it any more.

[Oninoni]

This is hopeful then. So you are saying it is the order in tree.cfg that the nodes are in that affects this? However, these are fact on my computer as observed by me: nodes have all connections when TreeEdit is loaded, and TreeLoader doesn't disappear connections if all mod parts are installed that were sorted into the tree to begin with.

Youre right i've checked it and it works with Tree Edit... Strange? Isn't TreeEdit Using TreeLoader???

[Ackander]

Ackander you put a lot of great work into it, well done! Do you plan to add Service Module System ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52362-0-22-Sum-Dum-Heavy-Industries-Service-Module-System-(V1-4) ) to this mod? And Asmi's ECLSS mod ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58127-0-22-asmi-s-ECLSS-Mod-(current-version-1-0-12)-Life-Support-Mod )

Thanks, it means a lot right now. I did want to add the service module eventually, it looks like a great mod I think. I would have added it already, probably, but I felt like I needed to get what I had out there, structure and theme wise, so I could see what people thought, and if anything needed fixing no comment. I'm glad you mentioned it though. I will add it and the ECLSS mod (I haven't looked into this one though, sorry) to the list for the release I'm working on now.

[Ackander]

Youre right i've checked it and it works with Tree Edit... Strange? Isn't TreeEdit Using TreeLoader???

I believe yes and no is the answer. If I recall correctly, this might have been a problem early after TreeEdit was released, but r4mon patched that and a couple other things to 1.1.3, but as far as I know, TreeLoader is still 1.0 original

edit: I didn't know what I was talking about. Apparently he patched TreeLoader and Tree Loader to 1.1.3 to address these issues. Now we just need it to work on larger trees, and maybe eventually very large trees?

Updates:

v 1.1.3: Fixed problem with node links on large trees

v 1.1.2: Better support for mod parts

v 1.1.1: Fixes for multiple copies of the same part on the game

I have not learned a programming language since Fortran77, and that was nearly 10 years ago and never needed it since, so I don't know exactly what I'm looking at with the TreeLoader source code. There is no source code for TreeEdit that I know of, either.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Ackander

[Ackander]

It actually does make sense (in a Kerbal way of common sense that is). I never even thought about using two command pods as a makeshift rover.

Thanks for clarifying things.

I never did either until blowing up a rocket while on the launch pad still and watching the pod roll around still when I tried to move. Kerbals and their damn accidental inventiondiscoveries.

[Holo]

I've just achieved my first orbit with this tech tree installed. I'm going to go for the Mun next, my launcher design is fairly powerful so some strap on boosters or an extra stage should be enough for a mun mission.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Holo