Whats the point of using the mobile processing lab?

[kurja]

You get something like 80 percent if you return one, and due to the diminishing returns it takes about 4 experiments returned to max out the science. The way I did it was to take a measurement, process, clean out experiment, and repeat until I could transmit any more. I think 2 returns would be worth more than 1 return and 1 transmit, even with the processing boost.

Only Kerbin, Mun and Minmus have biomes in 0.23. Although, water and land surface readings count as two different situations - relevant for Laythe.

Thanks. I tested transmitting vs returning extensively in the previous version, but haven't played .23 so much. Just set out to try the new toys, Jool having the most moons it seemed like the best place for an orbital science station but it turns out going anywhere within that system takes a lot of fuel, ooh the refueling, transfer and lifter stages big enough to take enough fuel up there... my designs are nearing the lower levels of whackjobianism as of late

[rkman]

lab module is mostly useless.

It is more efficient in terms of mass when you want to do more than about 8 experiments with science junior and 8 with mystery goo.

Otoh I think the 'boost for transmission' function is near useless because it can be used only with a manned mission, and you'd normally want to bring the crew back to Kebin anyway - which allows for full recovery of science and thus eliminates the need for 'boosting for transmission'.

[1of6Billion]

I was just thinking that a lab is a great way to maximise science gained off Eve. It looks like a nice hab, so no problem stranding 1 or 2 Kerbals there indefinitely.

[ArmchairGravy]

The lab module is NOT useless. Attach science pods to the lab module, and turn the whole thing into a lander. It's lighter than the 3-man command pod. This way you can a)re-use the science pod as you jump from biome to biome and b)store multiple copies of the same experiment in the lab module which allows you to suck all the science out of a biome in one go. Once Skippers and the lab module unlock, I start bringing home literally thousands of science points at a time.

[ammobake]

I think it can have it's uses. If you are earlier in the game with the heavy lift capability it can get you some additional science points. For example, if you can modify an existing rocket to handle the extra bulk and make it so it can land on the moon - wow it increases science potential considerably.

here's proof of concept...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=234247377

another screeny from the mun...

Screeny at launch showing my original rocket's launch config.

I've made 4 attempts and have zero failed landing attempts so far with this configuration.

The added science point bonus isn't anything drastic but it does make a big difference doing all these experiments on or near the moons of kerbin.

You can do more constant science with it also. Even in cases where you would normally get ZERO science points for transmitting, processing it in the lab can get you a few 4 or 5 points, much more in some cases depending on the return value for said experiment.

Processing surface samples is also a good way to get alot more science points. You just do it over and over. Once you get to where you don't get any more points without returning to kerbin you attempt a return flight from the surface of the mun (for example) and if you make it back great.

If not you got alot of points you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I'm not sure if it doubles the points you would normally get from a mun landing mission but it's gotta be close to it.

You just have to make sure you can adjust your design to deal with any top-heavy balance issues after launch. Putting landing struts directly on the bottom of the mobile processing lab - I wouldn't recommend it due to balance issues at touchdown. But there are ways to consistently land on the mun and get some decent science.

-ChriS

Edited March 4, 2014 by ammobake

[TerLoki]

I've used them on planetary flyby missions to save weight. Sending the MPL along means I can hit get as much science as possible from the Science Jr. and Mystery Goo without having to send more than one. The boosted transmission on everything else helps to, it makes me feel better about just transmitting data and bringing the capsule back by itself, rather than designing, launching, and returning so huge monstrosity of a lander with multiples of EVERY experiment.

I've also used it on my Minmus Station for biome-hopping, so that I don't have to launch the same lander over and over and, again, make sure all the science returns safely to Kerbin. Now with one science lander and one kethane lander I can get nearly as much science as sending about 10 more complex landers would get.

And, of course, it's great if you like role-playing your space program a bit.

[Geschosskopf]

I do a lot of role-playing with the Mobile Labs. I don't like putting Goo and Material data in capsules, both for the relative sizes of the parts and because I think the data needs special storage, not just stuffed in some cranny in the capsule. But OTOH, I figure stuffing a single lab with all the Goo and Material gunk takes up all the room even in it, so it's useless for doing anything else.

Thus, I pretend I have 2 separate types of Mobile Labs. Type I rearms Goos and Materials and boosts transmissions. It also does totally imaginary science in long-term orbit. Type II is purely data storage with seats for 2. This means I end up with stuff like this:

The lab on the left, with the Hitchhiker and 6-way docking thingy, is the Type I, now the core of the permanent Duna station. The lab on the right is the Type II, which returned all the data to the surface of Kerbin via its chutes and legs. The lander, which also remained at Duna, is in the process of offloading data into the Type II lab. Then I'd shift it down to the other end for the Type I lab to rearm.

[Tarmenius]

This is both fun and useful! When it's done collecting experiments from various biomes, I send one lander to retrieve the data and Kerbals. More science than I can shake a stick at!

An Orbital Lab like this (and its accompanying fuel) enables one lander to repeatedly visit the surface, store whatever experiments it brings up, and scrub the equipment for subsequent uses. When the mission is over, it returns to Kerbin with the lander crew and all that wonderful science. I've never found the transmission boost to be of any practical value, but the ability to retrieve all science from a given body in one or two launches from Kerbin is quite valuable to me.

[LtHeckard]

Well, if you're patient enough to rendezvous with an orbital science lab, you can clean your experiments bay so you can do more science.

[MarvinKitFox]

I know that you get some percentage more science of your transmissions to Kerbin. But I still don't see the point. I can't exit the lab with the kerbals(don't know if this is a bug, intended or if I'm just stupid), so the only option to leaving them stranded is the build a ship capable of returning. And since the science modules break after transmitting your science, this fully defeats the purpose of the lab. However, even if you can exit the lab you then need to send another ship to pick them up. While it might be easier to build a return capable ship without the science parts, it will not be that much easier considering you need to bring along empty capsules. Not to mention the time it takes to make the trip twice.

So, am I missing something? To me it just seems like the lab is more cumbersome than helpful.

To answer, yes.. Just stupid.. <ducks for cover!>

Seriously though..

To exit the kerbals, click on the hatch.

Transmitting the science "breaks" the tool, yes. and the processing lab then has an option to "clean" the experiment. You can then repeat, and repeat, and repeat, until no more transmittible data is left. The dregs need to be returned by courier, but by then you have science completion at about 95%, rather than the miserable 75% or so a first return gives you.

You can also experiment, archive and return multiple experiments from a single "one-use" experiment, as long as you have seperate couriers for the data. This means store the results in seperate pods, or with seperate kerbals, etc.. A loophole, but you can map the whole mun+minmus biomes with all instruments in one mission, carrying only one Lab and one of each experiment.

Of course, personally I find a better use for the mass allowance is to not bring the Lab, but to bring a dozen or so of the non-repeatable experiments. 2 rings of 6 each of Science jr + goo, each experiment after use is data-extracted and abandoned where it is. Easy, fun, and subsidised by the Kessler Syndrome Foundation!

[vger]

Hrmm... so I'm going to take a wild guess that I didn't fully understand how the MPL worked when I set up my current mission. I have a remote lander with JUST this as a payload sitting on the Mun. I sent it ahead of a manned mission, with the intention of two Kerbals manning it, while a third collects data via a rover and then brings it back to the lab for analysis.

... I guess this won't actually work?

[ArmchairGravy]

I take it the science gear is on the rover. You'll be able to collect the results from your science stuff and store on the MPL, and the instruments like the thermometer will be re-usable. If you want to clean and re-use the material bay and goo, you will have to be able to dock the rover with the MPL. If you have a small docking port down low, and one on the rover, the magnets on the docking port will suck the rover off the ground. Here's an example:

[LordQ]

It might be more efficient mass wise to just add more materials bays and goo cannisters for each place you want to visit, but with my recent Minmus hopping mission, I found that it's far more satisfying using this lab.

[celem]

Its pretty worth it for minmus, though for Mun i still carry and dump multiple experiments. Its just a lot of weight to keep moving about a 5-6 landing mission profile. I also used one to do Vall/Bop/Pol since i needed high/low space as well as the mono-biome landings and it worked admirably.

An excellent use of the MPL is to maximise your science return from a single visit. A lander with a lab and aerial/dish can actualy get you most of the science available from a spot in a single visit, rather than the 75% or so you get for a single returned sample, provided you still run a return leg:

Take your sample, process it through the lab and transmit it.

Clean the experiments, take a second sample and store it.

Clean again and move on to the next biome.

This has the effect of getting you to a higher % of the total available for that experiment in that spot than just the return would have, reducing the necessity for a second later mission, as well as making some (quite a lot for some experiments) of the science immediately available back on Kerbin for R&D. You should also treat your surface samples the same way, along with gravity scans at all altitudes and anything else that doesnt 100% on 1st transmit. As long as you still bring a copy back as well as the beamed one, you will only win. For me at least this is one of the best features of the MPL under the current transmit logic, fewer missions to tap out the pools.

Edited March 8, 2014 by celem
sp/grammar fails/readability

[vger]

I take it the science gear is on the rover. You'll be able to collect the results from your science stuff and store on the MPL, and the instruments like the thermometer will be re-usable. If you want to clean and re-use the material bay and goo, you will have to be able to dock the rover with the MPL. If you have a small docking port down low, and one on the rover, the magnets on the docking port will suck the rover off the ground.

Yeah that was the plan. Unfortunately I didn't account for needing a docking procedure. I thought taking the test results out of the equipment in an EVA and then dropping them in the lab would be sufficient. Oops. Though I guess logically that method 'should' work.

Ah well. Back to the drawing board.

[ArmchairGravy]

Yeah that was the plan. Unfortunately I didn't account for needing a docking procedure. I thought taking the test results out of the equipment in an EVA and then dropping them in the lab would be sufficient. Oops. Though I guess logically that method 'should' work.

Ah well. Back to the drawing board.

To be honest, rovers suck at gathering data from multiple biomes. The ship I posted was more "because I can". My recommendation for serious science gathering is something like this:

Attaching science pods to the side of a lab lander and putting ladders on them allows you to recover results and then reset the experiments (goo is on the bottom of the girder holding the material bay). Hop from biome to biome, dock a tanker when you need fuel, and come home with a full creel.

Edited March 9, 2014 by ArmchairGravy

[vger]

To be honest, rovers suck at gathering data from multiple biomes. The ship I posted was more "because I can"...

Yeah I know, I just can't biome-hop in a right frame of mind. Somehow it just always feels like metagaming, even though there's no logical reason for that. Sometimes I just want to do it the way the astronauts do.

It's one of the things that probably 'should' be taken care of in gameplay balance though. There have already been enough gripes about manned landings being practically pointless except for soil samples. It's even worse for rovers.

[TheGeoninja]

I made one into a Minmus orbit station. I didn't really use it but it makes sense to have especially if you are far from Kerbin.

[Mischief]

I'm also trying to find a use or value in the science station. Does it just add 10% to transmission values, so you would run the transmission of science data back less total times?

Currently I'm just using probes. Just finished pillaging pretty much all the science from Minmus. First I send a probe carrier with 12 little probes to Minmus. 9 of them, one for each biome, plus one each for high and low orbit, then 1 extra to replace any failures. Each probe has a full suite of science gathering equipment.

Second, I send a manned mission to gather the data. Pretty much just a lander module and a crap ton of fuel all stacked on and around a Poodle. My Kerbonaut then just had to make 1 drop and 7 small hops (midlands, flats, slope all close together. I gathered biome data and then had the probes relocate at a central position nearby with the 2 orbital collection probes. My little guy landed there, collected all of it, then made short little EVA hops for reports and soil samples from the 3 biomes) to collect EVA at and above plus samples. Then jetted home.

I tried playing around with the MPL when I was exploring the Mun but it seemed like way MORE trouble to use, not less, than just using probes and a lander + return unit. Since transmission, even with the 10% boost, is so much inferior to collection/return, plus you need to get soil and EVA samples which means going to the location and returning anyway, even at way, way distant locations wouldn't it be superior to just use probes, collect, then return?

Honestly? I'd say let the MPL have a 100% successful transmission rate and let it process soil samples the same way. This would make it and its huge weight requirement invaluable for more distant orbital stations. You could build a space station around, say, Jool, then go collect from the moons 1 at a time, return to the MPL to process and refuel, then go to the other moon rather than have to make multiple full trips.

[Geschosskopf]

I'm also trying to find a use or value in the science station. Does it just add 10% to transmission values, so you would run the transmission of science data back less total times?

It adds 15% but is still essentially constrained by the overall 40% value cap on all transmissions.

Forget transmitting. It's a waste of time because you cannot get more than about 1/2 the available points and the lad doesn't change this enough to bother with.

Where the Mobile Lab really IS useful is as a return container for vast amounts of data, and as a means of rearming Goos and Materials so you only have to send 1 set of instruments to a multi-biome planet. Build a lander with 4x Goos, 4x Materials, and 1x everything else. A single landing with this will collect about 90% of all available points for a biome. Fly it back up to the Mobile Lab. Store all the data in the lab. Use the lab to rearm the Goos and Materials. Then repeat, landing in a different biome until you've done them all or run out of fuel for the lander. Then bring the lab home and land it on Kerbin. Profit.

[zilfondel]

Why would you use 4x science pods of each type? You really only need 2 to get the max science. That way you shave off a ton of mass and propellant.

I am in the midst of putting together a Minmus science station, with tons of fuel and a lander. It is quite the challenge compared to just sending a constant stream of small probes. However, probes can get you enough science to unlock enough parts...

[0xE5C04D1D05]

The MPL serves a necessary part in my exploration plans as illustrated below, although I don't find the lab processing for greater transmission yield worthwhile. Too bad only Kerbin, Mun, and Minimus have biomes so far. Hope they add them to other systems.

[Vanamonde]

Oh, I ran a test mission about this, and then forgot to post the results. Flew a lander and a bunch of science parts to Eeloo, then parachute-landed the lab after having moved all the science from the mission into it, for 100% recovery despite leaving the lander at Eeloo and the ship in orbit.

[ArmchairGravy]

I would like to update my previous post. I've found that the MPL is awesome as a lander, and makes science gathering so much more efficient. I can drain all the science from a biome at one time, store the duplicates aboard, and be ready for the next stop. This design has 3k dv which is enough to tackle everything but Tylo and Eve.

[G'th]

As it stands now, the MPL is basically useful for hitting up a Biomed body in one go with minimal equipment. IE, clearing all the Minmus/Mun biomes in one or two relatively painless launches (using simple landers that reset at the MPL) and several landings.

Theoretically if you have all the fuel necessary for all the landings and the transfer from Mun to Minmus, then you could clear out all the science for the moons in one giant mission using two launches. (Or more, depending on how you set up your MPL station)

And once more bodys get Biomes, this will be how it works. Say you despise Dres, but you need science or whatever from it. So you set up the above, and do the planet in one mission so you can spend minimal time there.