[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, Lilienthal said:

Boiloff formulae?

I was wondering whether there is a guide to how the boiloff is calculated. This would be very useful to see whether I still can run LqdHydrogen missions to the Moon.

Is the shape important? The size of the tank? The temperature?  (The type of the tank, and the fuel seem to be obvious )

Thx!

Gustav

Boiloff depends on stock thermodynamics to determine how much heat reaches the part's interior. From there it looks at certain parameters invisible to the player to find how conductive the actual tank is (tank and insulation thickness/conductivity) and then determines how much heat penetrates into the propellant itself and finally how much propellant is vaporized and boiled off. Boiled off propellant carries away the heat that was required to vaporize it which helps cool the tank. (vaporization is a cooling process)

Radiators will help keep tank cool but the stock radiators are not configured for cryogenic cooling by default. The Heat Pump mod (which I maintain) was specifically designed for Real Fuels and was part of it originally but to my shame it is not yet updated for 1.1.2 - I didn't give it very high priority seeing as how it receives about 0.4% as many downloads as Real Fuels which is ironic seeing as how it exists to mitigate Real Fuels boiloff! Whatever. C'est la vie.

Anyway, yes, some tank types are more resistant to boiloff. These are:

• ServiceModule (Try to exercise self control: Lift vehicle sized service modules are unrealistic. But that's not enforced and they do have low boiloff)
• Fuselage (level of insulation approaching service modules)
• Cryogenic (has both internal tank insulation and low part conductivity)
• BalloonCryo (has both internal tank insulation and low part conductivity)

[Lilienthal]

Thanks @Starwaster and @Phineas Freak!

Do you have an actual formula or do you know where to find it?

Ta, G.

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Lilienthal said:

Thanks @Starwaster and @Phineas Freak!

Do you have an actual formula or do you know where to find it?

Ta, G.

Once the heat gets into the tank part internals then it uses standard multilayer conduction formula: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/conductive-heat-transfer-d_428.html to find out how much heat is getting through the tank wall.

[Trigger1112]

On 11 May 2016 at 2:00 AM, Dermeister said:

I will check it out for now I reverted to 64k.

You might want to check this out. It seems to be what we're looking for.

 

[grant977]

How do I add ignitions to engines or turn this option off?

[SirusKing]

Is it just heat pump that can help cool tanks, or do mods like Heat Control do it as well?

 

Also, when it comes to upper stage ullage, I typically spin my rocket laterally so that centripetal forces the fuel into the tank. Do they do this in real life? Does this not permanently mitigate the problem, or does your spin eventually stop?

[Starwaster]

6 hours ago, SirusKing said:

Is it just heat pump that can help cool tanks, or do mods like Heat Control do it as well?

 

Also, when it comes to upper stage ullage, I typically spin my rocket laterally so that centripetal forces the fuel into the tank. Do they do this in real life? Does this not permanently mitigate the problem, or does your spin eventually stop?

Heat Pump was designed for that purpose and originally was part of Modular Fuel Tanks mod. A decision was made to remove it from Real Fuels because <reasons>. At which point I spun the heat pump code off into its own mod so that there would still be a means of active cooling available.

If you have Realism Overhaul installed then the stock radiators can be used to cool tanks that contain cryogenic propellants. I have no idea bout Heat Control. (is it even still maintained?)

Also, IRL, ullage control is provided either by solid fueled rockets or by smaller thrusters that are not themselves subject to ullage concerns. (i.e. RCS thrusters can be used for ullage control)

Edited May 29, 2016 by Starwaster

[Raptor831]

I've got an SRB that seems to blow up simply from running. I'm not sure what's going on, but if I set it on the launchpad, ignite it, I can just watch the engine temp climb steadily toward its 3600K limit and just blow by it (and kaboom!). Other SRBs I've configured don't do that, so I gotta believe something's in my config that's breaking it. It's a SpaceY large SRB:

@PART[SYSRB_25X23]:FOR[RealFuels_StockEngines] //SpaceY S223 Super Heavy Lift Solid Rocket Booster
{

  @mass = 12.1
  @cost = 7935
  %entryCost = 39675
  @maxTemp = 1800
  @description = When Kerbodyne boosters just aren't enough, go with a wider design! This SRB is designed to balance lifting ability and burn time.

  @MODULE[ModuleEngine*]
  {
    @name = ModuleEnginesRF
    @maxThrust = 5000
    @heatProduction = 100
    @atmosphereCurve
    {
      @key,0 = 0 289
      @key,1 = 1 265
    }
    !PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] {}
    !PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] {}
    !PROPELLANT[MonoPropellant] {}
    PROPELLANT
    {
      name = SolidFuel
      ratio = 100.000000
      DrawGauge = True

    }

  }

  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleEngineConfigs
    type = ModuleEnginesRF
    techLevel = 7
    origTechLevel = 7
    engineType = S
    origMass = 12.1
    configuration = SolidFuel
    modded = false

    CONFIG
    {
      name = SolidFuel
      maxThrust = 5000
      heatProduction = 100
      PROPELLANT
      {
        name = SolidFuel
        ratio = 100
        DrawGauge = True

      }
      IspSL = 1.0000
      IspV = 0.9950
      throttle = -1
      ModuleEngineIgnitor
      {
        ignitionsAvailable = 1
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
        useUllageSimulation = false
      }


    }
    CONFIG
    {
      name = SolidFuelSteadyDip
      maxThrust = 5000
      heatProduction = 100
      PROPELLANT
      {
        name = SolidFuel
        ratio = 100
        DrawGauge = True

      }
      IspSL = 1.0000
      IspV = 0.9950
      throttle = -1
      ModuleEngineIgnitor
      {
        ignitionsAvailable = 1
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
        useUllageSimulation = false
      }
      curveResource = SolidFuel
      thrustCurve
      {
        key = 0.00 0.01
        key = 0.01 0.01
        key = 0.20 1.00 6 -0.2
        key = 0.95 1.00 0  0.0
        key = 1.00 0.50
      }

    }
    CONFIG
    {
      name = SolidFuelDecreasingDip
      maxThrust = 5000
      heatProduction = 100
      PROPELLANT
      {
        name = SolidFuel
        ratio = 100
        DrawGauge = True

      }
      IspSL = 1.0000
      IspV = 0.9950
      throttle = -1
      ModuleEngineIgnitor
      {
        ignitionsAvailable = 1
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
        useUllageSimulation = false
      }
      curveResource = SolidFuel
      thrustCurve
      {
        key = 0.00 0.01
        key = 0.01 0.01
        key = 0.05 0.50 0 0
        key = 0.95 1.00 0 0
        key = 1.00 0.50
      }

    }
  }
  !MODULE[ModuleEngineIgnitor] {}
  ModuleEngineIgnitor
  {
    ignitionsAvailable = 1
    autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
    useUllageSimulation = false
  }

  !RESOURCE[LiquidFuel] {}
  !RESOURCE[Oxidizer] {}
  !RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] {}
  !RESOURCE[SolidFuel] {}
  !RESOURCE[XenonGas] {}
  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleFuelTanks
    basemass = -1
    volume = 78751
    type = Solid
    // dedicated = false
    TANK
    {
     name = SolidFuel
     amount = full
     maxAmount = 100.000000%
    }

  }


}

SRB that works that I've tested is a KW Thor II large variant, config here:

@PART[KWsrbGlobeX10L]:FOR[RealFuels_StockEngines] //Globe X-10L “Thor II” SRB
{

  @mass = 6.75
  @cost = 4330
  %entryCost = 21650
  @maxTemp = 1800


  @MODULE[ModuleEngine*]
  {
    @name = ModuleEnginesRF
    @maxThrust = 3015
    @heatProduction = 176
    @atmosphereCurve
    {
      @key,0 = 0 284
      @key,1 = 1 260
    }
    !PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] {}
    !PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] {}
    !PROPELLANT[MonoPropellant] {}
    PROPELLANT
    {
      name = SolidFuel
      ratio = 100.000000
      DrawGauge = True

    }

  }

  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleEngineConfigs
    type = ModuleEnginesRF
    techLevel = 6
    origTechLevel = 6
    engineType = S
    origMass = 6.75
    configuration = SolidFuel
    modded = false

    CONFIG
    {
      name = SolidFuel
      maxThrust = 3015
      heatProduction = 176
      PROPELLANT
      {
        name = SolidFuel
        ratio = 100
        DrawGauge = True

      }
      IspSL = 1.0000
      IspV = 1.0000
      throttle = 0
      ModuleEngineIgnitor
      {
        ignitionsAvailable = 1
        useUllageSimulation = false
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800

      }


    }
  }
  !MODULE[ModuleEngineIgnitor] {}
  ModuleEngineIgnitor
  {
    ignitionsAvailable = 1
    autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
    useUllageSimulation = false

  }

  !RESOURCE[LiquidFuel] {}
  !RESOURCE[Oxidizer] {}
  !RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] {}
  !RESOURCE[SolidFuel] {}
  !RESOURCE[XenonGas] {}
  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleFuelTanks
    basemass = -1
    volume = 38000
    type = Solid
    // dedicated = false
    TANK
    {
     name = SolidFuel
     amount = full
     maxAmount = 100.000000%
    }

  }


}

Nothing stands out to me that would cause insta-explosions on the first one, so I wanted to put this out there and ask the question: what did I do to make it explode?

[Starwaster]

8 minutes ago, Raptor831 said:

I've got an SRB that seems to blow up simply from running. I'm not sure what's going on, but if I set it on the launchpad, ignite it, I can just watch the engine temp climb steadily toward its 3600K limit and just blow by it (and kaboom!). Other SRBs I've configured don't do that, so I gotta believe something's in my config that's breaking it. It's a SpaceY large SRB:

@PART[SYSRB_25X23]:FOR[RealFuels_StockEngines] //SpaceY S223 Super Heavy Lift Solid Rocket Booster
{

  @mass = 12.1
  @cost = 7935
  %entryCost = 39675
  @maxTemp = 1800
  @description = When Kerbodyne boosters just aren't enough, go with a wider design! This SRB is designed to balance lifting ability and burn time.

  @MODULE[ModuleEngine*]
  {
    @name = ModuleEnginesRF
    @maxThrust = 5000
    @heatProduction = 100
    @atmosphereCurve
    {
      @key,0 = 0 289
      @key,1 = 1 265
    }
    !PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] {}
    !PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] {}
    !PROPELLANT[MonoPropellant] {}
    PROPELLANT
    {
      name = SolidFuel
      ratio = 100.000000
      DrawGauge = True

    }

  }

  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleEngineConfigs
    type = ModuleEnginesRF
    techLevel = 7
    origTechLevel = 7
    engineType = S
    origMass = 12.1
    configuration = SolidFuel
    modded = false

    CONFIG
    {
      name = SolidFuel
      maxThrust = 5000
      heatProduction = 100
      PROPELLANT
      {
        name = SolidFuel
        ratio = 100
        DrawGauge = True

      }
      IspSL = 1.0000
      IspV = 0.9950
      throttle = -1
      ModuleEngineIgnitor
      {
        ignitionsAvailable = 1
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
        useUllageSimulation = false
      }


    }
    CONFIG
    {
      name = SolidFuelSteadyDip
      maxThrust = 5000
      heatProduction = 100
      PROPELLANT
      {
        name = SolidFuel
        ratio = 100
        DrawGauge = True

      }
      IspSL = 1.0000
      IspV = 0.9950
      throttle = -1
      ModuleEngineIgnitor
      {
        ignitionsAvailable = 1
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
        useUllageSimulation = false
      }
      curveResource = SolidFuel
      thrustCurve
      {
        key = 0.00 0.01
        key = 0.01 0.01
        key = 0.20 1.00 6 -0.2
        key = 0.95 1.00 0  0.0
        key = 1.00 0.50
      }

    }
    CONFIG
    {
      name = SolidFuelDecreasingDip
      maxThrust = 5000
      heatProduction = 100
      PROPELLANT
      {
        name = SolidFuel
        ratio = 100
        DrawGauge = True

      }
      IspSL = 1.0000
      IspV = 0.9950
      throttle = -1
      ModuleEngineIgnitor
      {
        ignitionsAvailable = 1
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
        useUllageSimulation = false
      }
      curveResource = SolidFuel
      thrustCurve
      {
        key = 0.00 0.01
        key = 0.01 0.01
        key = 0.05 0.50 0 0
        key = 0.95 1.00 0 0
        key = 1.00 0.50
      }

    }
  }
  !MODULE[ModuleEngineIgnitor] {}
  ModuleEngineIgnitor
  {
    ignitionsAvailable = 1
    autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
    useUllageSimulation = false
  }

  !RESOURCE[LiquidFuel] {}
  !RESOURCE[Oxidizer] {}
  !RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] {}
  !RESOURCE[SolidFuel] {}
  !RESOURCE[XenonGas] {}
  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleFuelTanks
    basemass = -1
    volume = 78751
    type = Solid
    // dedicated = false
    TANK
    {
     name = SolidFuel
     amount = full
     maxAmount = 100.000000%
    }

  }


}

 

Nothing stands out to me that would cause insta-explosions on the first one, so I wanted to put this out there and ask the question: what did I do to make it explode?

I think we need to look at the final config after that patch is applied to it. Maybe there was something in the original that's not interacting well?

Check and see if the original is normalizing heat production or what

[Raptor831]

Just now, Starwaster said:

I think we need to look at the final config after that patch is applied to it. Maybe there was something in the original that's not interacting well?

Check and see if the original is normalizing heat production or what

Well, as an additional head scratcher, the only time it seems to want to blow up is when it's using a thrustCurve{}. Same part, same session of KSP, I could switch the config to one without a curve and no problem; as soon as I switched to one with a curve, it explodes. Funny, though, in the right-click menu the rated thrust label is reading above 100%.  I haven't hit the highest thrust in the curve yet though.

I'll get the MM cache or something with the finalized node, though, and post it here.

 

[Starwaster]

3 minutes ago, Raptor831 said:

Well, as an additional head scratcher, the only time it seems to want to blow up is when it's using a thrustCurve{}. Same part, same session of KSP, I could switch the config to one without a curve and no problem; as soon as I switched to one with a curve, it explodes. Funny, though, in the right-click menu the rated thrust label is reading above 100%.  I haven't hit the highest thrust in the curve yet though.

I'll get the MM cache or something with the finalized node, though, and post it here.

 

I thought about the thrust curve but discounted that possibility. Where did the curve come from and is it used in any other rocket?

[Raptor831]

1 minute ago, Starwaster said:

I thought about the thrust curve but discounted that possibility. Where did the curve come from and is it used in any other rocket?

Curve came from Felbourn a ways back in this thread, here:

Also, here's the MM cache for the offending one:

UrlConfig
{
	name = SYSRB_25X23
	type = PART
	parentUrl = SpaceY-Lifters/Parts/SRBs/SYSRB_25/SYSRB_25L23
	url = SpaceY-Lifters/Parts/SRBs/SYSRB_25/SYSRB_25L23/SYSRB_25X23
	PART
	{
		name = SYSRB_25X23
		module = Part
		author = NecroBones
		scale = 1.0
		rescaleFactor = 1.0
		node_stack_top = 0.0, 11.5, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
		node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -11.5, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
		node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 1.25, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 2
		TechRequired = giganticRocketry
		cost = 7935
		category = Engine
		subcategory = 0
		title = SpaceY S223 Super Heavy Lift SRB
		manufacturer = SpaceY Technologies Corporation
		description = When Kerbodyne boosters just aren't enough, go with a wider design! This SRB is designed to balance lifting ability and burn time.
		tags = spacey moar (more motor rocket srb solid boost
		attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0
		mass = 12.1
		dragModelType = default
		maximum_drag = 0.3
		minimum_drag = 0.2
		angularDrag = 2
		crashTolerance = 7
		maxTemp = 2200
		bulkheadProfiles = size2, srf
		heatConductivity = 0.06
		skinInternalConductionMult = 4.0
		emissiveConstant = 0.5
		breakingForce = 20000
		breakingTorque = 20000
		stagingIcon = SOLID_BOOSTER
		entryCost = 39675
		MODEL
		{
			model = SpaceY-Lifters/Parts/SRBs/SYSRB_25/SYSRB_25L23
			scale = 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
		}
		EFFECTS
		{
			running_closed
			{
				AUDIO
				{
					channel = Ship
					clip = sound_rocket_hard
					volume = 0.0 0.0
					volume = 0.1 0.5
					volume = 1.0 0.9
					pitch = 0.0 0.5
					pitch = 1.0 0.8
					loop = true
				}
				PREFAB_PARTICLE
				{
					prefabName = fx_smokeTrail_veryLarge
					transformName = smokeTransform
					emission = 0.0 0.0
					emission = 0.05 0.0
					emission = 0.075 0.25
					emission = 1.0 1.25
					speed = 0.0 0.25
					speed = 1.0 1.0
					localOffset = 0, 0, 1
				}
				MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE
				{
					modelName = Squad/FX/SRB_Large
					transformName = fxTransform
					emission = 0.0 0.0
					emission = 0.05 0.0
					emission = 0.075 0.25
					emission = 1.0 1.25
					speed = 0.0 0.5
					speed = 1.0 1.2
				}
				MODEL_PARTICLE
				{
					modelName = Squad/FX/SRB_LargeSparks
					transformName = fxTransform
					emission = 0.0 0.0
					emission = 0.05 0.0
					emission = 0.075 0.25
					emission = 1.0 1.25
					speed = 0.0 0.5
					speed = 1.0 1.2
				}
			}
			engage
			{
				AUDIO
				{
					channel = Ship
					clip = sound_vent_medium
					volume = 1.0
					pitch = 1.0
					loop = false
				}
			}
			flameout
			{
				PREFAB_PARTICLE
				{
					prefabName = fx_exhaustSparks_flameout_2
					transformName = fxTransform
					oneShot = true
				}
				AUDIO
				{
					channel = Ship
					clip = sound_explosion_low
					volume = 1.0
					pitch = 2.0
					loop = false
				}
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleEnginesRF
			thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
			engineID = SYSRB25X
			runningEffectName = running_closed
			throttleLocked = True
			exhaustDamage = True
			ignitionThreshold = 0.1
			minThrust = 0
			maxThrust = 5000
			heatProduction = 100
			useEngineResponseTime = True
			engineAccelerationSpeed = 3.0
			allowShutdown = False
			fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.35
			EngineType = SolidBooster
			PROPELLANT
			{
				name = SolidFuel
				ratio = 1.0
				DrawGauge = True
			}
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 289
				key = 1 265
				key = 7 0.001
			}
			thrustCurve
			{
				key = 1.00 1.0
				key = 0.05 1.0
				key = 0.00 0.1
			}
			PROPELLANT
			{
				name = SolidFuel
				ratio = 100.000000
				DrawGauge = True
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleSurfaceFX
			thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
			fxMax = 1
			maxDistance = 80
			falloff = 2
			thrustTransformName = thrustTransform
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleGimbal
			gimbalTransformName = thrustTransform
			gimbalRange = 0.75
			useGimbalResponseSpeed = true
			gimbalResponseSpeed = 15
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleAnimateHeat
			animationName = SYSRB
			responseSpeed = 0.002
			dependOnEngineState = True
			dependOnThrottle = True
			ThermalAnim = SYSRB
			useTemp = False
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = FlagDecal
			textureQuadName = flagDecal
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleTestSubject
			useStaging = True
			useEvent = True
			situationMask = 60
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SITUATION
				value = 0
				body = _NotHome
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SITUATION
				value = 0
				body = _NotHome
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = REPEATABILITY
				value = ALWAYS
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = REPEATABILITY
				value = BODYANDSITUATION
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = REPEATABILITY
				value = ONCEPERPART
				prestige = Exceptional
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDEENV
				test = GT
				value = 4000
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDEENV
				test = LT
				value = 8000
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDEENV
				test = GT
				value = 2000
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDEENV
				test = LT
				value = 4000
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDEENV
				test = GT
				value = 1000
				prestige = Exceptional
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDEENV
				test = LT
				value = 2000
				prestige = Exceptional
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDE
				test = GT
				value = 0
				situationMask = 8
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDE
				test = LT
				value = 300000
				situationMask = 16
				body = _NotSun
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = ALTITUDE
				test = LT
				value = 600000
				situationMask = 32
				body = _NotSun
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEED
				test = GT
				value = 0
				situationMask = 8
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEED
				test = LT
				value = 600
				situationMask = 8
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEED
				test = GT
				value = 0
				situationMask = 8
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEED
				test = LT
				value = 900
				situationMask = 8
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEED
				test = GT
				value = 300
				situationMask = 8
				prestige = Exceptional
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEED
				test = LT
				value = 1200
				situationMask = 8
				prestige = Exceptional
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEEDENV
				test = LT
				value = 200
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEEDENV
				test = GT
				value = 100
				prestige = Trivial
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEEDENV
				test = LT
				value = 100
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEEDENV
				test = GT
				value = 50
				prestige = Significant
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEEDENV
				test = LT
				value = 50
				prestige = Exceptional
			}
			CONSTRAINT
			{
				type = SPEEDENV
				test = GT
				value = 20
				prestige = Exceptional
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = TweakScale
			type = stack
			defaultScale = 2.5
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = TestFlightInterop
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = TestFlightCore
			maxData = 10000
		}
		MODULE
		{
			flightDataEngineerModifier = 0.25
			name = FlightDataRecorder_Resources
			flightDataMultiplier = 10
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = TestFlightReliability
			reliabilityCurve
			{
				key = 0 0.00015
				key = 10000 0.00002
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = TestFlightFailure_ResourceLeak
			weight = 32
			resourceToLeak = random
			failureType = mechanical
			failureTitle = Tank is leaking
			initialAmount = 5
			duRepair = 50
			duFail = 25
			perSecondAmount = 1
			severity = failure
		}
		MODULE
		{
			failureTitle = Explosion!
			name = TestFlightFailure_Explode
			weight = 2
			duFail = 400
			failureType = mechanical
			severity = major
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = USI_ModuleRecycleablePart
			Menu = Disassemble Part
			ResourceName = MaterialKits
			Efficiency = .5
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = tjs_EngineLight
			isDebug = true
			lightPower = 0.75
			lightRange = 40.0
			maxLightPower = 23.0
			lightRed = 1
			lightGreen = 0.88
			lightBlue = 0.68
			jitterMultiplier = 10.5
			multiplierOnIva = 0.5
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = GeometryPartModule
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = FARAeroPartModule
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = FARPartModule
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = Malfunction
			min_lifetime = 432000.0
			max_lifetime = 43200000.0
			malfunction_msg = On <b>$VESSEL</b>, an engine malfunctioned$NEWLINE<i>Overheating increased to $OVERHEATING</i>
			repair_msg = Engine repaired$NEWLINE<i>A powerkick did the trick</i>
			status_msg = $OVERHEATING Overheating
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = KOSNameTag
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleEngineConfigs
			type = ModuleEnginesRF
			techLevel = 7
			origTechLevel = 7
			engineType = S
			origMass = 12.1
			configuration = SolidFuel
			modded = false
			CONFIG
			{
				name = SolidFuel
				maxThrust = 5000
				heatProduction = 100
				IspSL = 1.0000
				IspV = 0.9950
				throttle = -1
				PROPELLANT
				{
					name = SolidFuel
					ratio = 100
					DrawGauge = True
				}
				ModuleEngineIgnitor
				{
					ignitionsAvailable = 1
					autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
					useUllageSimulation = false
				}
			}
			CONFIG
			{
				name = SolidFuelSteadyDip
				maxThrust = 5000
				heatProduction = 100
				IspSL = 1.0000
				IspV = 0.9950
				throttle = -1
				curveResource = SolidFuel
				PROPELLANT
				{
					name = SolidFuel
					ratio = 100
					DrawGauge = True
				}
				ModuleEngineIgnitor
				{
					ignitionsAvailable = 1
					autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
					useUllageSimulation = false
				}
				thrustCurve
				{
					key = 0.00 0.01
					key = 0.01 0.01
					key = 0.20 1.00 6 -0.2
					key = 0.95 1.00 0  0.0
					key = 1.00 0.50
				}
			}
			CONFIG
			{
				name = SolidFuelDecreasingDip
				maxThrust = 5000
				heatProduction = 100
				IspSL = 1.0000
				IspV = 0.9950
				throttle = -1
				curveResource = SolidFuel
				PROPELLANT
				{
					name = SolidFuel
					ratio = 100
					DrawGauge = True
				}
				ModuleEngineIgnitor
				{
					ignitionsAvailable = 1
					autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
					useUllageSimulation = false
				}
				thrustCurve
				{
					key = 0.00 0.01
					key = 0.01 0.01
					key = 0.05 0.50 0 0
					key = 0.95 1.00 0 0
					key = 1.00 0.50
				}
			}
		}
		ModuleEngineIgnitor
		{
			ignitionsAvailable = 1
			autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
			useUllageSimulation = false
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleFuelTanks
			basemass = -1
			volume = 78751
			type = Solid
			TANK
			{
				name = SolidFuel
				amount = full
				maxAmount = 100.000000%
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = FSmeshSwitch
			objects = SRB_Default;SRB_SLS;SRB_Titan;SRB_Black
			objectDisplayNames = Default;SLS-CDR;Striped;Black
			affectColliders = false
			buttonName = Next Paint Scheme
			previousButtonName = Prev Paint Scheme
		}
	}
}

Did some more testing, and it seems to definitely be something with the curves being bad/wrong/messed up. I hadn't noticed these until now, unfortunately. See screenshot below. Craft is probe core, antenna, clamp (behind) and SRB. SRB's thrust in the editor says 4591kN at sea-level. Obviously, the thrust is above that mark:

So, yeah, it should explode with that thrust. I'm probably going to just have to roll my own curves or simply grab from RO what I can.

[Starwaster]

25 minutes ago, Raptor831 said:

Curve came from Felbourn a ways back in this thread, here:

Also, here's the MM cache for the offending one:

Did some more testing, and it seems to definitely be something with the curves being bad/wrong/messed up. I hadn't noticed these until now, unfortunately. See screenshot below. Craft is probe core, antenna, clamp (behind) and SRB. SRB's thrust in the editor says 4591kN at sea-level. Obviously, the thrust is above that mark:

 

So, yeah, it should explode with that thrust. I'm probably going to just have to roll my own curves or simply grab from RO what I can.

I had a real nice curve editor for Unity editor 4 but it doesn't seem to work in the Unity 5 editor. (was a real nice, simple graphical editor where you could input the curve keys direct from ksp config files because they were in the same format)

[Raptor831]

On 5/31/2016 at 9:34 PM, Starwaster said:

I had a real nice curve editor for Unity editor 4 but it doesn't seem to work in the Unity 5 editor. (was a real nice, simple graphical editor where you could input the curve keys direct from ksp config files because they were in the same format)

This is what I'm working with now: 

It'll get the job done. It's a bit finicky, but at least I can get a visual on the curve. I did successfully try out one from this tool and it didn't blow up. Honestly, I'm not sure why my original curves don't work, since they should be leveled (key = 0.95 1 0 0), but apparently the curve is too steep at that point or something.  Or Unity 5 changed the default tangents or interpolation.

[Starwaster]

58 minutes ago, Raptor831 said:

This is what I'm working with now: 

It'll get the job done. It's a bit finicky, but at least I can get a visual on the curve. I did successfully try out one from this tool and it didn't blow up. Honestly, I'm not sure why my original curves don't work, since they should be leveled (key = 0.95 1 0 0), but apparently the curve is too steep at that point or something.  Or Unity 5 changed the default tangents or interpolation.

Oh gawd.... an in-game editor? And I guess you have to click the button to addd a key? You can't just paste in all your keys at once? That's how the editor plugin worked. And you could either manually enter tangents (or paste them in along with the entire curve list if it had them) or grab handles on the curve points and adjust them that way. (because it was really an extension of the editor's existing curve editor except that the plugin made it so you didn't have to actually be working with animations or anything)

[Raptor831]

13 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Oh gawd.... an in-game editor? And I guess you have to click the button to addd a key? You can't just paste in all your keys at once? That's how the editor plugin worked. And you could either manually enter tangents (or paste them in along with the entire curve list if it had them) or grab handles on the curve points and adjust them that way. (because it was really an extension of the editor's existing curve editor except that the plugin made it so you didn't have to actually be working with animations or anything)

Yeah, manual add/remove, edit each field manually. It also defaults to "0 0" tangents, so I can't see how KSP is interpolating the curve with no tangents defined, which is a bummer. But it's at least enough for me to see what the curves are doing and fix issues.

[TrooperCooper]

 

My boil off is only happening when I am actualy focused on the related vessel. When I am not controling it / not in physics range it seems like I loose no fuel (or only super tiny ammounts - but I think those are lost upon loading the craft). Is that working as intended / as limited by the game? Or should I try re-installing? Right now I could easily pre-deploy a hydrolox  Mars return stage at the red planet to get my Astronauts back home in the future...

Another thing, @Starwaster, do you have any idea whether or not your heat pumps stuff is integrated / supported by RP-0?

 

[Jmullin]

Not sure if I messed up installation or if it's a bug with other mods but my craft can seem to fire engines after they've docked with another craft. I get the vapor in feed lines issues even though I have a pressurized tank. I use RCS as ullage and I still can't fire the engine with plenty of ignitions left.

Any ideas?

 

[Starwaster]

11 hours ago, TrooperCooper said:

 

My boil off is only happening when I am actualy focused on the related vessel. When I am not controling it / not in physics range it seems like I loose no fuel (or only super tiny ammounts - but I think those are lost upon loading the craft). Is that working as intended / as limited by the game? Or should I try re-installing? Right now I could easily pre-deploy a hydrolox  Mars return stage at the red planet to get my Astronauts back home in the future...

Another thing, @Starwaster, do you have any idea whether or not your heat pumps stuff is integrated / supported by RP-0?

 

Right now, boiloff is focus only. For awhile, there was code live that looked at how long a vessel was unloaded after you switched to it and did boiloff based on how much heat was leaking through and for how long. But I'm pretty sure that's disabled right now. Will go back at a later date and look at enabling it ...

RP-0 is not referencing ModuleHeatPump at all.

If you have Realism Overhaul installed then I think that stock radiators are configured to be able to keep things cool like cryo tanks but at a flat rate of electrical consumption. (which is fine I guess except that it doesn't take into account refrigeration requirements)

6 hours ago, Jmullin said:

Not sure if I messed up installation or if it's a bug with other mods but my craft can seem to fire engines after they've docked with another craft. I get the vapor in feed lines issues even though I have a pressurized tank. I use RCS as ullage and I still can't fire the engine with plenty of ignitions left.

Any ideas?

 

Are you waiting until the engine icon is no longer red or yellow? (the staging icon should look just like any other icon without a red background to it)

And, it doesn't matter that the tank is pressurized. If the propellants aren't properly settled then all the pressurization in the world won't help you.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Starwaster

[TrooperCooper]

4 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

Right now, boiloff is focus only. For awhile, there was code live that looked at how long a vessel was unloaded after you switched to it and did boiloff based on how much heat was leaking through and for how long. But I'm pretty sure that's disabled right now. Will go back at a later date and look at enabling it ...

RP-0 is not referencing ModuleHeatPump at all.

If you have Realism Overhaul installed then I think that stock radiators are configured to be able to keep things cool like cryo tanks but at a flat rate of electrical consumption. (which is fine I guess except that it doesn't take into account refrigeration requirements)

All right, guess I have to tie my hands to my back by myself. Thanks for the info.

 

[Raptor831]

@Starwaster or anyone else who knows: How does the RF boiloff play with the CryoEngines boiloff? Or should I just dump the CryoEngines code when playing with RF.

[Starwaster]

6 hours ago, Raptor831 said:

@Starwaster or anyone else who knows: How does the RF boiloff play with the CryoEngines boiloff? Or should I just dump the CryoEngines code when playing with RF.

If you have both installed then both are going to do apply boil off. (last time I checked anyway). RF certainly doesn't know about or care about CE and its behavior is unchanged.

 

[Ant432]

Help, for some reason this mod bugs Procedural parts and I can't edit tank shapes and set the diameter beyond 1.13m

[blowfish]

44 minutes ago, Antonio432 said:

Help, for some reason this mod bugs Procedural parts and I can't edit tank shapes and set the diameter beyond 1.13m

How do you know it's RF?

Edited June 10, 2016 by blowfish

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Antonio432 said:

Help, for some reason this mod bugs Procedural parts and I can't edit tank shapes and set the diameter beyond 1.13m

Post logs please. Consult the following thread if you don't know where your logs are. (and yes you have logs even if you're not experiencing crashes unless you disabled logging)