[1.8+] Real Fuels

[NathanKell]

@SpacedInvader then RF Stockalike is using an old and deprecated form of setting these things. It will probably switch to the current, correct method at some point, so best to patch both.

[SpacedInvader]

12 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

@SpacedInvader then RF Stockalike is using an old and deprecated form of setting these things. It will probably switch to the current, correct method at some point, so best to patch both.

Ok, I get it now, thank you. Can you tell me approximately how far back in the thread I need to look to find examples of the new syntax in case I ever want to roll some configs of my own for as yet unsupported engines?

[NathanKell]

it's super simple. In the CONFIG node,

ullage = (True/False)

pressureFed = (True/False)

ignitons = (integer)

IGNITOR_RESOURCE {} same as old syntax

the only tricky bit is this (and it was true on the old syntax too). When loaded ingame, -1 igntions == infinite, and 0 or more = finite. When in a CONFIG node, however, 0 = infnite and a number less than 0 means techlevel dependent (where the # ignitions = Max(1, TL + ignitions) so -2 means 2 ignitions at TL4.

[SpacedInvader]

8 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

it's super simple. In the CONFIG node,

ullage = (True/False)

pressureFed = (True/False)

ignitons = (integer)

IGNITOR_RESOURCE {} same as old syntax

the only tricky bit is this (and it was true on the old syntax too). When loaded ingame, -1 igntions == infinite, and 0 or more = finite. When in a CONFIG node, however, 0 = infnite and a number less than 0 means techlevel dependent (where the # ignitions = Max(1, TL + ignitions) so -2 means 2 ignitions at TL4.

Ok, I like simple

 

EDIT: On a side not, is the pressureFed setting only designed to prevent mismatched engine / tank type from firing, or does it have an effect on ullage simulation at all?

Edited May 6, 2016 by SpacedInvader

[NathanKell]

It has no effect on ullage simulation. Adding more pressurant to a tank doesn't make it more or less likely for the propellant to come out at a given end.

[SpacedInvader]

51 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

It has no effect on ullage simulation. Adding more pressurant to a tank doesn't make it more or less likely for the propellant to come out at a given end.

Ok, that's what I figured after we had that conversation about pressure fed vs ullage last year, I just wanted to confirm.

 

EDIT: Forum doesn't want to let me quote what I want to quote for some reason...

Edited May 6, 2016 by SpacedInvader

[Trigger1112]

Hello,

Apologies if this has been asked before or I've missed something.

I'm trying to do a realistic install of RF but as far as I can tell you need to install RO too. Since RO isn't compatible with 1.1 yet is there a way of making a RO-like config without the whole mod? I tried copying just the RF relevant files but that led to some tanks and engines not working.

Waiting for RO won't help anyway since I also have KSPI-E (I know RF isn't compatible with it but I only want RF to work with non-KSPI-E parts).

I know it's an unusual situation but I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer.

Thank you.

[Raptor831]

@NathanKell Stockalike never got switched to the new syntax for ignitions. It is something I'm aware of though, just haven't taken the journey to upgrade everything.

@SpacedInvader Patching both methods is the better way, for sure. For example: when I do get around to updating the configs, yours will still work.  

[SpacedInvader]

3 hours ago, Raptor831 said:

@NathanKell Stockalike never got switched to the new syntax for ignitions. It is something I'm aware of though, just haven't taken the journey to upgrade everything.

@SpacedInvader Patching both methods is the better way, for sure. For example: when I do get around to updating the configs, yours will still work.  

Good to know

[NathanKell]

v11.1

• Enable conduction compensation (now that FAR no longer lowers conduction).
• Set resources to volume=1 for compatibility with other mods.
• Don't set wrong massDelta when basemass is negative (fixes the B9 proc wings mass issue amongst others).
• Fix an NRE in database reloading at main menu.
• Fix issue with configs getting lost (affected LR91 verniers).

 

v11.1.1

Fix an NRE that was messing up staging in the VAB/SPH

[SpacedInvader]

Just a heads up, the new update seems to have removed the stockalike configs from CKAN. It sounds weird, but I've got no config folder anymore, and the configs are not applied (i.e. it didn't get moved), but CKAN thinks they are installed. Will need to manually install them until its corrected.

[Dermeister]

I'm sorry If this has been asked before I ran a search but I can't find the answer.

 

I was always under the impression that RCS required its fuel to be stores in a "Service module" Tank.... But I been thinking wouldn't balloon tanks be good to store RCS? Is it possible?

[Phineas Freak]

@Dermeisterballoon tanks are what their name indicates, balloons. It is not possible to keep RCS fuels inside them because the tank would exceed the pressure limits and explode (RCS tanks are pressurized to about 3000 - 4000 psi). ServiceModule tanks can withstand these pressures and also provide the required inert pressurization gases.

[Dermeister]

Ahh I see so What's those little balloon like things around the bottom of upper stages we see? Just curious I often like to make those and store RCS in those. But I wonder what they really are.

I'm Referring to Delta II those lil orange Balloons near the engines. ESC-B grey balloons. What are those for?

 

 

 

[Phineas Freak]

They are either Hydrazine/Nitrogen tanks for the ACS or Helium tanks for propellant pressurization. All fuels require some type of pressurization and an example of this is the DCSS: it is a cryogenic upper stage but pressurization is provided by the Helium tanks located in the truss between the LH2 and the LOX tanks.

[Temeter]

Some rockets, like the Falcon 9, have their helium tanks also inside of the actual fuel tank. Infamously, the failure last year was because a strut keeping the helium tank in place broke.

[FallenPhoenixRA]

Hey can someone tell me how to get rid of ignitions in this mod?

[Trigger1112]

On 06 May 2016 at 11:35 PM, Trigger1112 said:

Hello,

Apologies if this has been asked before or I've missed something.

I'm trying to do a realistic install of RF but as far as I can tell you need to install RO too. Since RO isn't compatible with 1.1 yet is there a way of making a RO-like config without the whole mod? I tried copying just the RF relevant files but that led to some tanks and engines not working.

Waiting for RO won't help anyway since I also have KSPI-E (I know RF isn't compatible with it but I only want RF to work with non-KSPI-E parts).

I know it's an unusual situation but I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer.

Thank you.

Anyone?

Edit: Apparently RO is 1.1.2 compatible. Doesn't help me much since it doesn't play nicely with KSPI-E.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Trigger1112

[Dermeister]

17 hours ago, FallenPhoenixRA said:

Hey can someone tell me how to get rid of ignitions in this mod?

Look in the Config file that comes with this mod. RealSetting.cfg I think. That's how I did it but i'm not sure if I did it wrong.. but it works I don't have to deal with ulage... The only thing I din't figure out was how to disable Cook off... but i'm on the fence as to weather or not I like cook off or not. Would be nice if some one could tell me where to disable that doe.

23 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

They are either Hydrazine/Nitrogen tanks for the ACS or Helium tanks for propellant pressurization. All fuels require some type of pressurization and an example of this is the DCSS: it is a cryogenic upper stage but pressurization is provided by the Helium tanks located in the truss between the LH2 and the LOX tanks.

Thanks for the info

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Dermeister

[FreeThinker]

I'm  a bit confused about the Volume ratios used for LqdHydrogen / LqdOxygen in Real Fuels.  In stock alike engines config a ratio of 76.30830964721619  / 23.69169035278381  is used while in the RF tank definition a ratio of 0,72856139 / 0,27143861  (which is close to at 1: 6 mass fraction) is used. Which one is the correct one?

[Phineas Freak]

Both are correct. The O/F ratio is what matters (in this case it is 0.3104 vs 0.3725).

[FreeThinker]

23 minutes ago, Phineas Freak said:

Both are correct. The O/F ratio is what matters (in this case it is 0.3104 vs 0.3725).

Then how is ensured the player uses the correct Hydrolox tank when selecting and engine? Seems to me only one Hydrolox mix should be used to prevent confusion. Also it would send a clear message to other mods what is the correct RealFuel Hydrolox Mix. I myself want it to make KSPI more compatible with Real Fuels tanks, therefore I need to know the correct mixture. I'm inclined to use the 0,72856139 / 0,27143861  mix as a default since this is what is found in the tanks

Edited May 9, 2016 by FreeThinker

[Phineas Freak]

What do you mean by "one Hydrolox mix"? The mix between Hydrogen and Oxygen varies between different engines (and even for the same engine in reality), it is never absolute.

[Theysen]

6 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Then how is ensured the player uses the correct Hydrolox tank when selecting and engine? Seems to me only one Hydrolox mix should be used to prevent confusion. Also it would send a clear message to other mods what is the correct RealFuel Hydrolox Mix. I myxelf want it to make KSPI more compatible with Real Fuels tanks, therefore I need to know the correct mixture. I'm inclined to use the 0,72856139 / 0,27143861  mix as a default since this is what is found in the tanks

Don't forget the configs use volume flows in contrast to the mass flows often found on info sites. You need to convert it first for proper configuration of real fuels engines. 

[FreeThinker]

Well Wikipedia states that Hydrolox (LH+ LOX) has a common mass ratio of 4.83  which would translate in a volume percentage of 29.8675%. Still the question remains how does RealFuels ensures the correct tanks mix is used when every engine uses a differnt Hydrogen Oxygen mix

Edited May 9, 2016 by FreeThinker