[1.8+] Real Fuels

StoryMusgrave · October 6, 2015

The cause of the issue I believe IS RealismOverhaul. While it doesn't touch the engine per say. RO does touch ALL engines by changing them from ModuleEngines/FX to ModuleEnginesRF, and I'm betting this is the cause of the issue.

Starwaster · October 6, 2015

The cause of the issue I believe IS RealismOverhaul. While it doesn't touch the engine per say. RO does touch ALL engines by changing them from ModuleEngines/FX to ModuleEnginesRF, and I'm betting this is the cause of the issue.

Does RO recognize any overrides (as Deadly Reentry does with its leaveTemp setting)?

miyuruasuka · October 6, 2015

Screenshot of the affected part please? (In the VAB I mean, showing the text you're referring to)

The "4.0 kN" thrust value is essentially pulled out of some @$$. It also doesn't scale with different fuels. It's also wrong in asserting that the engine consumes LiquidFuel only: it consumes all sorts of fuels, and they all work properly, with the correct Isp even, but the thrust is always stuck at the totally wrong 4 kN value. Removing RealismOverhaul/RealFuels makes the bug disappear.

Clearly something is forcing the engine to ignore KSPI when calculating its own thrust; however, scouring the whole GameData directory I couldn't find any ModuleManager patch patching over this engine specifically. KSPI also does set the thrust correctly *somewhere*: MechJeb thinks the thrust is the value given in the KSPI documentation, and thus is also massively confused.

Edited October 6, 2015 by miyuruasuka

StoryMusgrave · October 6, 2015

Does RO recognize any overrides (as Deadly Reentry does with its leaveTemp setting)?

Not that I can see right now. What wouldn't be a bad idea is having the 'RSSROConfig = False' flag prevent the change from ModuleEngines/FX to ModuleEnginesRF to avoid a conflict such as this.

- - - Updated - - -

Clearly something is forcing the engine to ignore KSPI when calculating its own thrust; however, scouring the whole GameData directory I couldn't find any ModuleManager patch patching over this engine specifically. KSPI also does set the thrust correctly *somewhere*: MechJeb thinks the thrust is the value given in the KSPI documentation, and thus is also massively confused.

Yeah, pretty apparent the change to ModuleEnginesRF is causing the issue.

miyuruasuka · October 7, 2015

So if I understand correctly, there is no way of working around this issue unless ModuleEngineRF fixes its steamrolling over non-RO engines?

Starwaster · October 7, 2015

So if I understand correctly, there is no way of working around this issue unless ModuleEngineRF fixes its steamrolling over non-RO engines?

No, you aren't understanding correctly. This is what I said it was from the very beginning.

That would likely be caused by whichever engine pack they installed. Real Fuels itself no longer alters engines. You need engine configs for that.

ModuleEnginesRF isn't 'steamrollering' over anything. A set of configs is being applied to that engine and changing it to something that is not KSPI compatible. My original assessment stands. This isn't a Real Fuels issue.

miyuruasuka · October 7, 2015

I'm not claiming it's a Real Fuels issue. As the other user said, it's probably because RealismOverhaul is "steamrollering" over everything. I was just asking whether there was a workaround (say, by config file) or not; I have no intention to blame RF.

RO is weird in that it touches *every* engine whether there's a config for it for not, and somehow this touching breaks KSPI but not most other "non RO" mods. I'll post about this in the RO thread.

October 7, 2015

A ModuleManager fix using :AFTER[RealismOverhaul] could correct it. Alternatively, edit the Realism Overhaul config file that sets the engine.

StoryMusgrave · October 7, 2015

I think the best course of action is simply not having RO convert ModuleEngines/FX to RF to things otherwise not touched by RealismOverhaul.

A permanent setting of RSSROConfig = False applied to KSPI engines along with the above should cure it.

miyuruasuka · October 7, 2015

A ModuleManager fix using :AFTER[RealismOverhaul] could correct it. Alternatively, edit the Realism Overhaul config file that sets the engine.

As I said, there's no specific config file that mentions the engine. StoryMusgrave's suggested hack (in the RO thread) of removing "RealismOverhaul/RealPlume_Configs/000_Generic_Plumes_Catchall/000_ModuleEnginesFixer.cfg" works perfectly for me.

(By the way, why do I have to keep repeating that this is not due to RO having a broken config that changes the engine? This is a problem with RO attempting to convert everything to Real Fuels even for engines that already support RF fuel names using the stock fuel system, and has *nothing* to do with there being a config changing the engine.)

October 7, 2015

As I said, there's no specific config file that mentions the engine.

I am aware of that. Note that I suggested a config for :AFTER[RealismOverhaul]

StoryMusgrave · October 7, 2015

(By the way, why do I have to keep repeating that this is not due to RO having a broken config that changes the engine? This is a problem with RO attempting to convert everything to Real Fuels even for engines that already support RF fuel names using the stock fuel system, and has *nothing* to do with there being a config changing the engine.)

No, no, no. It is changing the MODULE which controls the engine. From the stock ModuleEngines or ModuleEnginesFX to a new ModuleEnginesRF that has additional goodies added by NathanKell, which is apparently is breaking KSPI. RO is in the wrong, it will be corrected. Let's just drop this.

Edited October 7, 2015 by StoryMusgrave

October 7, 2015

No, no, no. It is changing the MODULE which controls the engine.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

Starwaster · October 7, 2015

As I said, there's no specific config file that mentions the engine. StoryMusgrave's suggested hack (in the RO thread) of removing "RealismOverhaul/RealPlume_Configs/000_Generic_Plumes_Catchall/000_ModuleEnginesFixer.cfg" works perfectly for me.
(By the way, why do I have to keep repeating that this is not due to RO having a broken config that changes the engine? This is a problem with RO attempting to convert everything to Real Fuels even for engines that already support RF fuel names using the stock fuel system, and has *nothing* to do with there being a config changing the engine.)

Except that it is a config changing the engine. What difference does it make whether it's being done specifically and explicitly to that engine or a config blanketing multiple parts.

Think about it, you could have arrived at a fix hours ago if not for various arguments against what I said it was from the very beginning.

StoryMusgrave · October 7, 2015

Sorry regex, not pointed at you. More to the user that found the issue.

ebigunso · October 7, 2015

OK to end this conversation, I'll bring up a different problem.

I seem to be having the fuel unstable issue too, that somebody previously reported. I remember that guy had the issue on launchers, but in my case this happened in orbit.

I had a KW 2.5m service propulsion system on my craft with the dev version of Stockalike configs.

The other engines I had on the craft (that was on a different stage) functioned properly, but this one in particular didn't work in this case. The fuel flow state for this engine rapidly changes to "Unstable" and never moves from there. Applying thrust from RCS doesn't make it go towards a stable state at all, and the suspicious part is that it never even goes to being "Very Unstable" but just stays unstable the whole time.

This is not due to the RCS not having enough thrust, as my previous missions using the same craft design worked as I intended.

Quicksave and Quickload didn't solve the issue.

This phenomenon leads me to think there is some phantom force being applied by a bug, that holds the fuel in the unstable state. I will give a link to my output_log.

https://kie.nu/2Ldg

Arte · October 8, 2015

My game keeps freezing then crashing after this NRE spam:

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.StopFX () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 


  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Starwaster · October 9, 2015

My game keeps freezing then crashing after this NRE spam:

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.StopFX () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 


  at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Think we need to see the entire log (output_log.txt or player.log if Linux/Mac). Your ModuleManager.ConfigCache file wouldn't hurt either.

To Anyone interested in trying out new Real Fuels boiloff before it officially arrives:

(this requires manually overwriting and you should only do this if you are comfortable with your file system and installing KSP mods by hand)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/25hzx1lrlcw72w1/RealFuels_Boiloff_Revamp.zip?dl=1

How to install:

Open the zip file and copy the contents into your RealFuels folder. Overwrite when asked.

What it does:

It's updated to properly use latent heat of vaporization instead of an emperically determined loss rate.

Tanks will also be properly cooled down by evaporative processes.

Tank insulation is an actual thing now and uses a combination of modified part conductivity and an internally calculated method using Fourier conduction formula.

The tank configs still need a tweaking pass; some tanks may boil off approximately twice as much as they should or half as much as they should.

Only LqdOxygen, LqdHydrogen, LqdMethane and LqdAmmonia use the new boiloff process. There are still some resources that don't have vaporization values assigned yet and use the old loss_rate system.

Updated using the latest official code.

(my github fork: https://github.com/Starwaster/ModularFuelSystem/tree/Dev/Source )

ebigunso · October 9, 2015

Update on my issue, restarting the game hasn't helped with the situation. The craft's engine still shows the Unstable state and won't budge at all.

The fuel state shows Unstable at first when you load, then it goes to Very Stable then quickly to Unstable again all before physics kicks in, and once physics are in and I can control the craft it's stuck there.

I may as well have to abandon this mission and return the crew if RF doesn't bring a fix for this soon...

Edited October 9, 2015 by ebigunso

StoryMusgrave · October 9, 2015

ebigunsosd. Please provide a detailed scenario of duplication steps. I'd also like to propose that this may not be an issue with RealFuels but with the stockalike config itself. If this were a giant bug within RealFuels, then essentially anything that used it would not work. Since that appears to not be the case, then I'd look further at the engine config itself.

Svm420 · October 9, 2015

To Anyone interested in trying out new Real Fuels boiloff before it officially arrives:
(my github fork: https://github.com/Starwaster/ModularFuelSystem/tree/Dev/Source )

Question about the RealTankTypes.cfg you have with it.

Under deafault type your lqdoxygen entry has no loss rate is that inteded?


name = Default
	highlyPressurized = False
	basemass = 0.000016 * volume
	TANK
	{
		name = LqdOxygen
		mass = 0.000014
		utilization = 1
		fillable = True
		amount = 0.0
		maxAmount = 0.0
		temperature = 90.15
		note = (lacks insulation)
	}

Then your crygen entry has no insulation parameter for lqdOxygen


//Cryogenic
TANK_DEFINITION
{
	name = Cryogenic
	highlyPressurized = False
	basemass = 0.000019 * volume
	outerInsulationFactor = 0.025
	TANK
	{
		name = LqdOxygen
		mass = 0.0000112
		utilization = 1
		fillable = True
		amount = 0.0
		maxAmount = 0.0
		temperature = 90.15		
		note = (has insulation)
	}

Do you have something against lqdOxygen Starwaster???

Starwaster · October 9, 2015

Question about the RealTankTypes.cfg you have with it.

Under deafault type your lqdoxygen entry has no loss rate is that inteded?


name = Default
    highlyPressurized = False
    basemass = 0.000016 * volume
    TANK
    {
        name = LqdOxygen
        mass = 0.000014
        utilization = 1
        fillable = True
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
        temperature = 90.15
        note = (lacks insulation)
    }

Yes, as I said, this replaces the old loss_rate determined boil-off. (though that might not have been as clear as I intended, but it's there in the first sentence.

The reason for that, BTW, is that with the new KSP 1.0 thermodynamics, tanks and their resources can absorb heat at a rate that doesn't match the loss_rate determined rate. That being the case, even though we've had evaporative cooling for months now (pretty much ever since Real Fuels updated for KSP 1.0) it does no good because because the cooling didn't happen as fast as the heating. That's why I've been working on this, so that boiloff code will be up to snuff with our new thermodynamic system.

Then your crygen entry has no insulation parameter for lqdOxygen


//Cryogenic
TANK_DEFINITION
{
    name = Cryogenic
    highlyPressurized = False
    basemass = 0.000019 * volume
    outerInsulationFactor = 0.025
    TANK
    {
        name = LqdOxygen
        mass = 0.0000112
        utilization = 1
        fillable = True
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
        temperature = 90.15        
        note = (has insulation)
    }

Do you have something against lqdOxygen Starwaster???

Uhm it DID have insulation.... HONEST! I'll have to go back and look for it. I think I see it sticking out of the sofa cushions.... I'll have it fixed soonish

ebigunso · October 9, 2015

ebigunsosd. Please provide a detailed scenario of duplication steps. I'd also like to propose that this may not be an issue with RealFuels but with the stockalike config itself. If this were a giant bug within RealFuels, then essentially anything that used it would not work. Since that appears to not be the case, then I'd look further at the engine config itself.

Right.

Since I didn't have this issue for previous launches of the same craft, I can't say for sure what is the cause. But I'll instead post my save game so anyone who wants to test can take a look at it.

The craft named "Lunar Mission Mother Ship" is the one in question.

Also I'll put up my craft file so you can test that alone. For the craft you'll need KW Rocketry, HullcamVDS, BoxSat, COSMOS SSPP, Procedural tanks, Procedural Fairings, FASA Launch Towers, RealFuels and the Stockalike config for it.

For the mods I have, there's a whole bunch so I'll put that inside a spoiler.

1.0.4
(Stock - Adjusted transmit science scaler for Accelorometer, Barometer, Gravitometer, Thermometer, Atmospheric Sensor.
Increased average contract number to 20.)
Active Texture Management (Agressive, w/ Naten's Configs & Original Configs)
Advanced Jet Engine
Alternate Resource Panel
Astronomer's Visual Pack
Auto Pruner (pruned KW SRB,Stock Heat Shild, KOSMOS SSPP, RO Global Tank, RO Global Fairing)
--Original Prune list: KOSMOS_SSPP, KW_SRB, RSCapsuledyne_Tank, Stock_Fairings, Stock_HeatShield, Renewed Stock Tanks list/RO Global Tanks list/Stock Wings list(incomplete)
B9 Aerospace (Infodrive only/adjusted mass to 0.01)
B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts
Better Buoyancy
BoxSat (1.0.2 patched)
ClampsBeGone
Cloud Configuration for OPM (AST-Int)
Community Tech Tree
Connected Living Space (w/ Taurus HCV config)
Contract Configurator (Field Research, Tourism Plus, Useful Space Stations)
Contract Window+
Crowd Sourced Science
Deadly Reentry
Default Throttle
Distant Object Enhancement
Docking Port Alignment Indicator
Editor Extensions
Enhanced Navball
Environmental Visual Enhancements
Extraplanetary Launchpads
FASA Launch Towers
Ferram Aerospace Resarch
Final Frontier
Flight Manager for Reusable Stages (1.0.2 ver)
Heat Management (w/ Community Tech Tree patch)
Hullcam VDS
Impact!
Infernal Robotics Rework (Core)
K2 Command Pod (Ablator added)
Kerbal Alarm Clock
Kerbal Attachment System
Kerbal Construction Time
Kerbal Engineer Redux
Kerbal Inventory System
Kerbal Joint Reinforcement
Kopernicus
Kopernicus Expansion
kOS
KOSMOS SSPP (Fixed Node attachement direction)
KSP TOT
KW Rocketry (1.0.2 ver w/ community 1.0.4 patch) ==WAITING UPDATE==
Near Future Technologies (Solar, Electric, Propultion, Decaying RTG, Low thurust Electric)
Outer Planets Mod
Persistent Rotation
Planet Shine
Portrait Stats
Precise Node
Procedural Fairings
Procedural Parts
Raster Prop Monitor
RCS Build Aid
Real Fuels (w/ stockalike config, realistic engine mass false)
Real Chute (w/ Community Tech Tree Patch)
Real Heat (WIP 2015/7/15)
Real Plume (w/ Stock config)
Remote Tech
SCANsat
Ship Manifest
Simple Orbit Calculator
SmokeScreen
Stock Bug Fix
TAC Fuel Balancer
TAC Life Support
Taurus HCV (w/ Community Tech Tree patch)
Texture Replacer (w/ Rareden's Real 8k Skybox)
Thermal Monitor
Toolbar
Transfer Window Planner
Trajectories (1.0.2 ver)
Tweak Scale
USI Kolonization Systems
Waypoint Manager

Here's the files: Save Game, Craft File

I'll also post the Module manager cache for this specific engine if you want to take a look at that also.

UrlConfig
{
    name = KW2mengineSPS
    type = PART
    parentUrl = KWRocketry/Parts/Engines/2mSPS/part
    url = KWRocketry/Parts/Engines/2mSPS/part/KW2mengineSPS
    PART
    {
        name = KW2mengineSPS
        module = Part
        author = KW Rocketry
        node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
        node_stack_top2 = 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
        node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.687, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
        TechRequired = heavyRocketry
        cost = 526
        category = Engine
        subcategory = 0
        title = KW Rocketry Hypergolic Service Propulsion System
        manufacturer = KW Rocketry
        description = A simple motor for small spacecraft that shares the same propellants as your reaction control system. Built for efficiency in a vacuum. Plume configured by RealPlume.
        attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0
        mass = 0.59
        dragModelType = default
        maximum_drag = 0.2
        minimum_drag = 0.2
        angularDrag = 2
        crashTolerance = 7
        breakingForce = 200
        breakingTorque = 200
        maxTemp = 1523.15
        emissiveConstant = 0.8
        stagingIcon = LIQUID_ENGINE
        entryCost = 2630
        oldMaxTemp = 1531
        tempMult = 0.994872632266493
        MODEL
        {
            model = KWRocketry/Parts/Engines/2mSPS/KW_2mEngine_SPS_M
            scale = 1, 1, 1
        }
        MODEL
        {
            model = KWRocketry/Parts/Fairings/UnifiedFairings/KW_Auto_2mSPSShroud
            scale = 1, 1, 1
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleEnginesRF
            thrustVectorTransformName = NozzleTransform
            engineID = KWSPSLE
            runningEffectName = running_closed
            exhaustDamage = True
            ignitionThreshold = 0.1
            minThrust = 0
            maxThrust = 200
            heatProduction = 95.5077726975833
            atmosphereCurve
            {
                key = 0 330
                key = 1 116
                key = 3 0.001
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = MMH
                ratio = 49.965541
                DrawGauge = True
                ResourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = NTO
                ratio = 50.034459
                ResourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
            }
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleGimbal
            gimbalTransformName = NozzleTransform
            gimbalRange = 3
            useGimbalResponseSpeed = true
            gimbalResponseSpeed = 15
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleAnimateEmissive
            ThermalAnim = GriffonEmissiveAnim
            useHeat = True
            lerpMin = 0
            lerpMax = 750
            lerpOffset = -150
            lerpPow = 0.875
            lerpOuterScalar = 1
            lerpInnerScalar = 1
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleAlternator
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = ElectricCharge
                rate = 4
            }
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleJettison
            jettisonName = 2mSPSShroud
            bottomNodeName = bottom
            isFairing = True
            jettisonedObjectMass = 0.1
            jettisonForce = 5
            jettisonDirection = 0 0 1
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleSurfaceFX
            thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
            fxMax = 0.4
            maxDistance = 30
            falloff = 1.5
            thrustTransformName = NozzleTransform
        }
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            amount = 2
            maxAmount = 2
            isTweakable = false
            hideFlow = true
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = BBModule
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = FMRS_PM
            parent_vessel = 0
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = MGFix
            plusEnabled = True
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ThermalMonitor
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = TweakScale
            type = stack
            defaultScale = 2.5
            TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
            {
                mass = 2.5
            }
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = USI_ModuleRecycleablePart
            Menu = Scrap Part
            ResourceName = Recyclables
            Efficiency = .8
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = USI_ModuleRecycleablePart
            Menu = Salvage Part
            ResourceName = SpecializedParts
            Efficiency = .4
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = GeometryPartModule
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = FARAeroPartModule
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = FARPartModule
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = KOSNameTag
        }
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleEngineConfigs
            techLevel = 4
            origTechLevel = 4
            engineType = O
            origMass = 0.59
            configuration = MMH+NTO
            modded = false
            type = ModuleEnginesRF
            CONFIG
            {
                name = MMH+NTO
                maxThrust = 200
                heatProduction = 95.5077726975833
                IspSL = 0.9600
                IspV = 0.9500
                throttle = 0
                powerEffectName = Hypergolic-OMS-White
                PROPELLANT
                {
                    name = MMH
                    ratio = 49.96554100620262
                    DrawGauge = True
                    ResourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
                }
                PROPELLANT
                {
                    name = NTO
                    ratio = 50.03445899379738
                    ResourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
                }
                ModuleEngineIgnitor
                {
                    ignitionsAvailable = 24
                    useUllageSimulation = true
                    autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
                    ignitorType = Electric
                    IGNITOR_RESOURCE
                    {
                        name = ElectricCharge
                        amount = 2
                    }
                }
            }
            CONFIG
            {
                name = UDMH+NTO
                maxThrust = 200
                heatProduction = 95.5077726975833
                IspSL = 0.9500
                IspV = 0.9500
                throttle = 0
                powerEffectName = Hypergolic-OMS-White
                PROPELLANT
                {
                    name = UDMH
                    ratio = 47.82321899736148
                    DrawGauge = True
                    ResourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
                }
                PROPELLANT
                {
                    name = NTO
                    ratio = 52.17678100263852
                    ResourceFlowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
                }
                ModuleEngineIgnitor
                {
                    ignitionsAvailable = 24
                    useUllageSimulation = true
                    autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
                    ignitorType = Electric
                    IGNITOR_RESOURCE
                    {
                        name = ElectricCharge
                        amount = 2
                    }
                }
            }
        }
        ModuleEngineIgnitor
        {
            ignitionsAvailable = 24
            autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
            useUllageSimulation = true
        }
        PLUME
        {
            name = Hypergolic-OMS-White
            transformName = NozzleTransform
            localRotation = 0,0,0
            localPosition = 0,0,-0.84
            fixedScale = 7
            energy = 1
            speed = 1
            flareScale = 7
            plumeScale = 7
            flarePosition = 0,0,-0.84
            plumePosition = 0,0,-0.84
        }
        EFFECTS
        {
            Hypergolic-OMS-White
            {
                MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE_PERSIST
                {
                    transformName = NozzleTransform
                    localRotation = 0,0,0
                    localPosition = 0,0,-0.84
                    fixedScale = 7
                    energy = 1
                    speed = 1
                    name = plume
                    modelName = RealPlume/MP_Nazari_FX/ssmeflame2
                    fixedEmissions = false
                    sizeClamp = 50
                    randomInitalVelocityOffsetMaxRadius = 0
                    randConeEmit
                    {
                        density = 1 0.2
                        density = 0.3 0.4
                        density = 0 0.7
                    }
                    logGrow
                    {
                        density = 1.0 2
                        density = 0.1 2
                        density = 0.0 2
                    }
                    logGrowScale
                    {
                        density = 1.0 0.0
                        density = 0.8 0
                        density = 0.46 0
                        density = 0.2 2
                        density = 0.1 3
                        density = 0.0 3
                    }
                    linGrow
                    {
                        density = 1.0 0
                        density = 0.46 0.0
                        density = 0.2 5
                        density = 0.05 7
                        density = 0.0 8
                    }
                    grow
                    {
                        density = 1 -0.99
                        density = 0.8 0
                        density = 0.0 0
                    }
                    speed
                    {
                        density = 1.0 0.7
                        density = 0.46 1
                        density = 0.2 1.5
                        density = 0.05 1.8
                        density = 0.0 1.9
                    }
                    emission
                    {
                        density = 1.0 1.5
                        density = 0.8 1.5
                        density = 0.2 1.7
                        density = 0.1 1.7
                        density = 0.05 2
                        density = 0.0 2.5
                        power = 1 1
                        power = 0.01 0.2
                        power = 0 0
                    }
                    energy
                    {
                        density = 1.0 2
                        density = 0.3 1.7
                        density = 0.05 0.8
                        density = 0.0 0.7
                    }
                    size
                    {
                        density = 1.0 0.85
                        density = 0.8 0.80
                        density = 0.2 0.65
                        density = 0.0 0.75
                    }
                }
                AUDIO
                {
                    channel = Ship
                    clip = RealPlume/KW_Sounds/sound_spsloop
                    volume = 0.0 0.0
                    volume = 1.0 1.5
                    pitch = 0.0 1.0
                    pitch = 1.0 1.0
                    loop = true
                }
            }
            engage
            {
                AUDIO
                {
                    channel = Ship
                    clip = RealPlume/KW_Sounds/sound_sps
                    volume = 1.5
                    pitch = 1.0
                    loop = false
                }
            }
            disengage
            {
                AUDIO
                {
                    channel = Ship
                    clip = sound_vent_soft
                    volume = 1.0
                    pitch = 2.0
                    loop = false
                }
            }
            flameout
            {
                AUDIO
                {
                    channel = Ship
                    clip = sound_explosion_low
                    volume = 1.0
                    pitch = 2.0
                    loop = false
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

Edited October 9, 2015 by ebigunso

Starwaster · October 9, 2015

Then your crygen entry has no insulation parameter for lqdOxygen


//Cryogenic
TANK_DEFINITION
{
    name = Cryogenic
    highlyPressurized = False
    basemass = 0.000019 * volume
    outerInsulationFactor = 0.025
    TANK
    {
        name = LqdOxygen
        mass = 0.0000112
        utilization = 1
        fillable = True
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 0.0
        temperature = 90.15        
        note = (has insulation)
    }

Do you have something against lqdOxygen Starwaster???

Actually I have to re-analyze that. It does have insulation, it's just in the TANK_DEFINITION. The O2 tank itself probably literally does not have its own separate insulation for that type of tank.

The only one that probably really needs it is the H2 tank. In fact, you'll notice that the default H2 TANK originally said 'lacks insulation' but I added some in this revision. The reason for that is because in researching this I noticed that our space program has always insulated the hydrogen tanks while at the same time leaving the oxygen tanks uninsulated.

Also, if you are trying this update, put a tank up with H2/O2 and you'll probably not see any O2 boiloff at all while the tank still has H2 in it. The reason for that is that it's getting chilled by the H2 tank's boiloff. (which I'm not sure is really even possible unless they're all common bulkheads, so just assume that they all are )

Svm420 · October 9, 2015

Yes, as I said, this replaces the old loss_rate determined boil-off. (though that might not have been as clear as I intended, but it's there in the first sentence.
The reason for that, BTW, is that with the new KSP 1.0 thermodynamics, tanks and their resources can absorb heat at a rate that doesn't match the loss_rate determined rate. That being the case, even though we've had evaporative cooling for months now (pretty much ever since Real Fuels updated for KSP 1.0) it does no good because because the cooling didn't happen as fast as the heating. That's why I've been working on this, so that boiloff code will be up to snuff with our new thermodynamic system.
Uhm it DID have insulation.... HONEST! I'll have to go back and look for it. I think I see it sticking out of the sofa cushions.... I'll have it fixed soonish

So would the entries for structural and ballon need the loss rate removed ?


//Structural
TANK_DEFINITION
{
	name = Structural
	highlyPressurized = False
	basemass = 0.000039 * volume
	TANK
	{
		name = LqdOxygen
		mass = 0.000014
		utilization = 1
		fillable = True
		amount = 0.0
		maxAmount = 0.0
		temperature = 90.15
		loss_rate = 0.000000005
		note = (lacks insulation)
	}

//Balloon
TANK_DEFINITION
{
	name = Balloon
	highlyPressurized = False
	basemass = 0.000001 * volume
	TANK
	{
		name = LqdOxygen
		mass = 0.000014
		utilization = 1
		fillable = True
		amount = 0.0
		maxAmount = 0.0
		temperature = 90.15
		loss_rate = 0.000000005
		note = (lacks insulation)
	}

[1.8+] Real Fuels

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