[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Guest]

Let's move ISRU discussion here. I have a working document and am interested in what you all think.

[Senshi]

@jstnj: Did you even read OP? The answer to your question is in the first line of it:

The previous Modular Fuel System has split into Modular Fuel Tanks (taken care of by taniwha; for all your stock-resource modular-tank needs) and Real Fuels (by me, modular tanks and engines using real resources). Use one OR the other.

Then, if you could waste another few seconds to read the second post as well, you'll see that you will also need an engine config pack fitting to your needs. Currently you should use Raptor's Stockalike engine config, I don't think the others are updated yet.

[jstnj]

@jstnj: Did you even read OP? The answer to your question is in the first line of it:

Then, if you could waste another few seconds to read the second post as well, you'll see that you will also need an engine config pack fitting to your needs. Currently you should use Raptor's Stockalike engine config, I don't think the others are updated yet.

I did read the OP yes, I have Raptors configs (the new ones) in the gamedata folder as well. The issue still persists.

---

edit --- FIXED...RCFX was causing the problem

Edited May 18, 2015 by jstnj

[Senshi]

What issue did RCSFX present? And how did you fix it? Haven't heard of RCSFX causing problems in a very long time, so I'm always curious if new ones show up.

If you installed both MFT and RF, they probably broke each other: The issue you described in your first post is exactly what is supposed to happen when using MFT.

If you had both, there's a good chance your installation got messed up because both have different module manager config files that will interfere with each other. To fix it, you will have to remove ALL files you installed with MFT and RF, and then ONLY install the RF prerelease as well as Raptor's engine config pack.

[allenby]

Having a bit of trouble with RCS. It normally hasn't been an issue getting them to work before, but they won't fire now (I know the steps involved in getting them to work with RF). Oddly enough, when I select an RCS module in the VAB, the debug is repeatedly spammed with:

[Exception]: MissingFieldException: Field '.Vessel.staticPressure' not found.

These lines keep printing after the craft is launched, and only stop when I delete the RCS. The VAB also lags quite a bit even after deleting the parts (memory leak?).

I haven't heard of anyone having this same issue, so I thought I'd check.

EDIT: The updated RF Stockalike config is bundled with an older version of RCSFX (3.5). Replacing it with RCSFX 4.0 seems to have resolved the issue.

Edited May 18, 2015 by allenby

[FreeThinker]

Question, does Real Fuels support propane as a fuel? It would be usefull as more easily storable version of Methane

[NathanKell]

Does CRP support it? Once CRP supports it, adding it to RF should be easy enough.

[Raptor831]

The updated RF Stockalike config is bundled with an older version of RCSFX (3.5). Replacing it with RCSFX 4.0 seems to have resolved the issue.

Yup, got me there. I updated the Stockalike repo with the latest ModuleRCSFX. It'll get rolled in with the next release.

[Aghanim]

For some reason my KSP 1.0.2 with Linux cannot edit the tank contents after installing RealFuels with stockalike, so I emptied the gamedata folder so it only contains squad, so for all intents and purposes it is stock.

Installing RealFuels with MM and it loads normally but without any tank modification, installing RealFuels with SolverEngines makes me able to edit tank contents but with engine still in stock fuel setting, and installing stockalike with bundled RCSFX make it stuck in loading screen at /Squad/Parts/Engines/omsEngine/omsEngine, and its the same with RCSFX v4.0

And that modded KSP cannot edit the tank contents, it because Big-S delta wing doesn't have RealFuel definitions so it can only be filled by liquid fuel, so the original bug isn't really the bug then

Edited May 23, 2015 by Aghanim

[NathanKell]

Well, it's finally here!

Changelog:

v10.0

• SAVE-BREAKING.
  
• KSP 1.0 support.
  
• Remove thermal fin and radiator.
  
• Use Community Resource Pack for our resources, don't add resources in RF.
  
• Xenon tank type is removed; all of these tanks use ElectricPropulsion now.
  
• Now have multiple different solid fuel resources, and thus multiple different solid fuel tank types.
  
• Add module info in the editor tooltip for tanks
  
• Engine info / configuration info will only display for the master ModuleEngineConfigs on the part.
  
• Disable MEC event firing on configuration change (was killing FAR).
  
• Updating an engine config will properly propagate to symmetry counterparts.
  
• Updating the engine config of an isMaster=true module can propagate changes to isMaster=false modules on the same part (and will propagate properly across symmetry counterparts). Example: Change the main engine config and the vernier config will auto-update. Done by, for each CONFIG, adding an OtherModules {} node. Inside are key-value pairs, where key = engineID of other module and value is config to switch to.
  
• Separate settings for RF engines (RFSETTINGS) and tanks (still MFSSETTINGS).
  
• Remove deprecated old version of hybrid engines (the one that is essentially MultiModeEngine).
  
• Speed up ModuleEngineConfigs a lot, cut the excess bits from ModuleHybridEngines.
  
• Fix issue with heat multiplier
  
• Rewrite floatcurve-modder to respect tangents.
  
• Massively refactor engines code. RealFuels, like AJE, will use an engine solver now. The new engine module (ModuleEnginesRF) handles thrust curves, throttle speed, emission and internal engine temperature, automatically extending Isp curves to 0 Isp, etc.
  
• MEC (and MHE) default to using weak typing: type = ModuleEngines means apply to ModuleEngines or anything derived from it (same for ModuleRCS etc). You can disable this feature per-module if needed.
  

[iVG]

The god of fuels is back!!

[grosser_Salat]

Following closely the devellopment of RO and its dependencies. Caaan't wait. Thx for your great work Nathan!

[diomedea]

Well, it's finally here!

Finally, indeed. Could not wait much longer to have this essential add-on back. Thanks NathanKell (and everybody else who helped with this).

[klgraham1013]

Thanks for the update.

[westamastaflash]

Thank you! Can't wait for RSS / 6.5x Kerbin to come back so these don't feel so powerful :-)

[Dr. Jet]

Glad to see one of my favorite mods is back!

I have some questions though:

1) Former RCS tanks are set to "insulated pressurized", capable of holding cryogenic fuels. Is that intended behavior?

2) Stock ISRU part is still configured to produce stock LiquidFuel, Monopropellant and Oxidizer. Any chances for RealISRU project to be started?

3) Is it OK to rely on RealFuels/Fuel_Conversions.cfg to autoconfigure my tanks into non-insulated pressurised, capable of holding hydrazine and/or hypergolic mixes?

4) Is it OK to TOTALLY SKIP adding MODULE[ModuleEngineIgnitor] for monopropellant/hypergolic engine in config? Or should it be some kind of "endless" catalytic ignition?

5) Where can I read about how boiloff works in new version?

[Guest]

Stock ISRU part is still configured to produce stock LiquidFuel, Monopropellant and Oxidizer. Any chances for RealISRU project to be started?

Already started.

[NathanKell]

Thanks all!

Dr. Jet:

1. Yes, since regular fuel tanks are set to type 'Default' or (infrequently) type 'Cryogenic', you have no way to store any highly-pressurized propellants without some tanks being made type 'ServiceModule'. RCS tanks seem the obvious choice, since pretty much all RCS propellants are highly pressurized, and if you can store them, you might as well store everything else highly pressurized too.

3. I don't see that file in RF. What is it, and why did you not follow the install instructions?

4. You definitely need to add the ignitor. Even hypergolic engines don't have inifinite relights, and even hypergolic pressure-fed engines (which usually have effectively infinite relights) are still subject to ullage concerns. The only things that don't have to worry about it are RCS, since they spend extra mass on bladder tanks to avoid ullage concerns. This myth just. will. not. die.

5. Works the same as it always did: if part temperature is > boiling point, you lose (tDelta) * lossRate percent of your tank.

[FireFaced]

-snip-​

4. You definitely need to add the ignitor. Even hypergolic engines don't have inifinite relights, and even hypergolic pressure-fed engines (which usually have effectively infinite relights) are still subject to ullage concerns. The only things that don't have to worry about it are RCS, since they spend extra mass on bladder tanks to avoid ullage concerns. This myth just. will. not. die.-snip-

Is there a way to disable engine ignition rules?

Edited May 25, 2015 by FireFaced
Incomplete

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

Is there a way to disable engine ignition rules?

IIRC - they disabled by default, unless you use "Engine ignitor" mod.

[Dr. Jet]

3. I don't see that file in RF. What is it, and why did you not follow the install instructions?

Uh... It was a part of RFStockalike. Automatic conversion of ALL LF/Ox tanks to "Default" MFT type. RFStockalike is not a dependency, right? So I should keep a separate config for my tanks for the case RFStockalike is not installed.

Does this engine config look OK?

@PART[dskycrane*]:NEEDS[RealFuels]

{

@MODULE[ModuleEngines]

{

!PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] {}

!PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] {}

PROPELLANT

{

name = UDMH

ratio = 47.823219

DrawGauge = True

}

PROPELLANT

{

name = NTO

ratio = 52.176781

}

}

MODULE

{

name = ModuleEngineConfigs

type = ModuleEngines

techLevel = 5

origTechLevel = 5

engineType = O

configuration = UDMH+NTO

modded = false

CONFIG

{

name = UDMH+NTO

heatProduction = 95

PROPELLANT

{

name = UDMH

ratio = 0.47823219

DrawGauge = True

%flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH

}

PROPELLANT

{

name = NTO

ratio = 0.52176781

%flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH

}

IspSL = 0.95

IspV = 0.95

throttle = 0

MODULE

{

name = ModuleEngineIgnitor

ignitionsAvailable = 24

autoIgnitionTemperature = 800

ignitorType = Electric

useUllageSimulation = true

IGNITOR_RESOURCE

{

name = ElectricCharge

amount = 0.03

}

}

}

CONFIG

{

name = MMH+NTO

heatProduction = 95

PROPELLANT

{

name = MMH

ratio = 0.50366459

DrawGauge = True

%flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH

}

PROPELLANT

{

name = NTO

ratio = 0.49633541

%flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH

}

IspSL = 0.9600

IspV = 0.9600

throttle = 0

MODULE

{

name = ModuleEngineIgnitor

ignitionsAvailable = 24

autoIgnitionTemperature = 800

ignitorType = Electric

useUllageSimulation = true

IGNITOR_RESOURCE

{

name = ElectricCharge

amount = 0.03

}

}

}

CONFIG

{

name = Aerozine50+NTO

heatProduction = 95

PROPELLANT

{

name = Aerozine50

ratio = 50.17301038062284

DrawGauge = True

%flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH

}

PROPELLANT

{

name = NTO

ratio = 49.82698961937716

%flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH

}

IspSL = 0.9600

IspV = 0.9500

throttle = 0

MODULE

{

name = ModuleEngineIgnitor

ignitionsAvailable = 24

autoIgnitionTemperature = 800

ignitorType = Electric

useUllageSimulation = true

IGNITOR_RESOURCE

{

name = ElectricCharge

amount = 0.03

}

}

}

CONFIG

{

name = Hydrazine

PROPELLANT

{

name = Hydrazine

ratio = 1

DrawGauge = True

%flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH

}

IspSL = 0.2740

IspV = 0.7200

throttle = 0

MODULE

{

name = ModuleEngineIgnitor

ignitionsAvailable = 24

autoIgnitionTemperature = 800

ignitorType = Electric

useUllageSimulation = true

IGNITOR_RESOURCE

{

name = ElectricCharge

amount = 0.03

}

}

}

}

}

[Starwaster]

4. You definitely need to add the ignitor. Even hypergolic engines don't have inifinite relights, and even hypergolic pressure-fed engines (which usually have effectively infinite relights) are still subject to ullage concerns. The only things that don't have to worry about it are RCS, since they spend extra mass on bladder tanks to avoid ullage concerns. This myth just. will. not. die.

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]“That is not dead which can eternal lie,

And with strange aeons even death may die.â€Â[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[NathanKell]

Dr. Jet: You said "RealFuels/Fuel_Conversions.cfg" which made me think it was in the RealFuels folder.

I have no idea what it does, so can't offer advice as to whether it's "ok to use". If it leads to acceptable results then...I guess so?

At first blush that config looks mostly Ok. You really should be setting maxThrust though, you can pull it from the engine module with MM's variables. Also, the EngineIgnitor stuff is wrong; inside a CONFIG it looks like this: https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/blob/9370ef763c5126ec6dbe5fed21731583d6880ba1/GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_SuggestedMods/AIES/RO_AIES_Engine.cfg#L85

But note you also have to add the MODULE for it outside the ModuleEngineConfigs module (see the entirety of that example).

Edited May 26, 2015 by NathanKell

[Frimi_2]

Hey NathanKell,

I discovered a minor Issue. By trying to run KSPI with its integrated Interstellar fuel switch togehter with RF/RFT it happens that those two override each other. It works fine in the VAB untill you roll something out to the launch pad. Than it reverts itself to a setting as in the Interstellar options marked.

I'am aware that the two mods are not supposed to be used in this way. I was trying to fill a procedural tank with one of the IS fuel by using the real fuel mod.

Not sure how it can be solved except to avoid using this together. Perhaps If you might talk to Freethinker? Maybe you can agree on something?

regards

Frimi

[NathanKell]

There really can be only one thing changing what resources a tank has. If you apply RF (or MFT) to a tank, you need to not apply FuelSwitch (or Firespitter's fuel switch or anything else).