Science Revisited - New and improved ways to do science [1.3.1]

[ZobrAA]

Hi CaptRobau! Can you say something about:

seems like pods cannot store more than one Crew Report, so now you can return observations only from one biome per flight. It seems to be wrong, am I right? How can I restore ability for multiple biomes observations?

?

[CaptRobau]

I don't think you were ever able to store multiple crew reports, not even in vanilla KSP.

[ZobrAA]

I don't think you were ever able to store multiple crew reports, not even in vanilla KSP.

So that's a bad news. Science Revisited swaps Crew and EVA Reports experiments between pod and eva kerbals, but don't provide ability to store multiple "above biome" reports. So it's a HUGE waste of science and it's not logical at all...

[CaptRobau]

Ah, I see now what you mean. You were always able to save multiple EVA reports. Since I changed biome-specific low orbit from EVA to Crew Reports, doing that is no longer possible. That's nothing I can change, since it's hard-coded. I'm going to stick with my design choice there, though. Getting out of your capsule to take a EVA report is just a pain and not at all fun. Yes, you can no longer get as much science with just a crew pod and some propulsion as before, but I don't see that as a problem. It gives a nice gradual progression. First some science gathering around the base or from a suborbital mission. Then a few orbital missions with crew reports running only on the pod's batteries and then extended missions with batteries and all sorts of science tech that you've gotten by then. That's more fun than sending up a suborbital on the first try and load it up with a dozen EVA reports, with your Kerbal never looking at anything but the pod door that he's hanging onto. I will take another look at early career however and see how various play styles might be influenced by the ways I rearranged things.

Anyway, the next update is coming soon. I got Frizzank's permission to use some of his models for my purposes, which means everything is in place for the update to proceed further.

[Piamette]

I haven't tried Science Revisited yet but I carry multiple crew reports with the Radial Experiment Storage Container from Talisar's Spherical and Toroidal Tank Pack.

You'll need one container for each crew report and you'll have to get the data from the pod and transfer it to the container through EVA. Each container acts like a pod and can store multiple reports, no duplicates though.

[CaptRobau]

1.3 is out and can be found in the . Sorry it took so long. Changelog:

-Added an optional tweak that changes all solar panels to more accurately follow in the inverse square law
-Added a new part that runs an orbital science experiment called Surface Mapping, which makes satellites more useful for science gathering
-Added a new part for doing unmanned surface samples, at the cost of reduced transmission values compared to manned samples
-Rebalanced the science values of all the science experiments, to account for the added experiments
-Increased the data scales of some experiments to make electrical management less trivial in later stages of career mode
-Replaced the modified Hitchhiker IVA for the Science Lab with only 2 available seats to the normal Hitchhiker IVA with 4, because I increased the crew capacity to 4 since it's such a big module. You still only need two Kerbals to work the Lab though

[123nick]

1.3 is out and can be found in the . Sorry it took so long. Changelog:

-Added an optional tweak that changes all solar panels to more accurately follow in the inverse square law
-Added a new part that runs an orbital science experiment called Surface Mapping, which makes satellites more useful for science gathering
-Added a new part for doing unmanned surface samples, at the cost of reduced transmission values compared to manned samples
-Rebalanced the science values of all the science experiments, to account for the added experiments
-Increased the data scales of some experiments to make electrical management less trivial in later stages of career mode
-Replaced the modified Hitchhiker IVA for the Science Lab with only 2 available seats to the normal Hitchhiker IVA with 4, because I increased the crew capacity to 4 since it's such a big module. You still only need two Kerbals to work the Lab though

can you add a version that only adds the extra science part? and doesent change the tech tree? i could just use the module manager config and edit it but im afraid i might break something as i have 1.2 version of this mod. thanks in advance.

[CaptRobau]

Just download 1.3. Remove the ScienceDefs_SolarPanels. Then open up ScienceDefs, remove everything and paste this in:

@PART[crewCabin]
{
	@category = Science
	@description = The HSC was an invention of necessity - how do we store 4 Kerbals on-orbit and perform experiments on them, without any real provisions for return? Who needed this remains a mystery, as do his motivations. 

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleCommand
		minimumCrew = 1
	}

	@MODULE[ModuleScienceExperiment]
	{
		@experimentID = microgExperiment	
		@hideUIwhenUnavailable = False	
		@experimentActionName = Micro-Gravity Experiment
		@resetActionName = Discard Experiment
		@reviewActionName = Review Experiment
	}
}

// SCIENCEDEFS

EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION
{
	id = microgExperiment
	title = Micro-Gravity Experiment
	baseValue = 7.5
	scienceCap = 10
	dataScale = 3

	requireAtmosphere = False
	situationMask = 48
	biomeMask = 0

	RESULTS
	{
		default = The crew is loving the feeling of weightlessness.

		KerbinInSpace = Playing darts in space does not work.

		MunInSpace = Kerbals still hate brushing their teeth, even in micro-gravity.

		MinmusInSpace = Consuming food is considerably more difficult in space.

		GillyInSpace = Snacks are more appreciated in the weightlessness of space.

		MohoInSpace = The experiment seems to react violently to the micro-gravity environment.

		EveInSpace = Plants grow far quicker in space.

		DunaInSpace = In the reduced gravity, the sapling has started to grow an eye and tentacles.

		IkeInSpace = Exercise is important for the health of spacebound Kerbals.

		DresInSpace = The test subject blinks more quickly in this environment.

		JoolInSpace = The subject is mysteriously pulled to the side of the container.

		LaytheInSpace = The crew seems to do its tasks better. What causes this is unknown.

		VallInSpace = The moon's resonance with Jool is throwing off the results.

		TyloInSpace = Performing science experiments is more pleasurable in this gravitational field.

		BopInSpace = The plants in the cabin are pointing to the moon's pole.

		PolInSpace = The subject's hairs are standing up straight for some reason.

		EelooInSpace = The crew is too homesick to do any experiments, which is interesting in itself.
	}
}

EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION
{
	id = surfaceMapping
	title = Surface Mapping
	baseValue = 10.5
	scienceCap = 14
	dataScale = 7

	requireAtmosphere = False
	situationMask = 16
	biomeMask = 16

	RESULTS
	{
		default = That looks interesting.

		KerbinInSpace = It's...blue. And green, yellow and white.

		MunInSpace = At this distance, the only thing we can say for certain is that it's gray.

		MinmusInSpace = You are suddenly hankering for mint icecream.

		GillyInSpace = The color beige dominates Gilly's surface. It looks very neutral.

		MohoInSpace = Moho looks to be the chocolate chip flavor of planets.

		EveInSpace = Purple, surple, nurple, kurple, flurple, nurple...

		DunaInSpace = The planet is a beautiful red, topped 

		IkeInSpace = The gray color of the terrain doesn't fit Ike's upbeat name.

		DresInSpace = The surface color is the dullest of grays.

		JoolInSpace = It's, uh... It's green.

		LaytheInSpace = Water ahoy!

		VallInSpace = The moon's surface looks almost crystalline.

		TyloInSpace = Tylo looks unforeboding.

		BopInSpace = This thing is just one mountain after the next. How will we ever map this?

		PolInSpace = This irregular moon looks like it'll be hell too map.

		EelooInSpace = Eeloo looks like a giant snowball from here.
	}
}

[ArthropodOfDoom]

I'm having a bear of a time getting the SurfMapper 2000 to work. What do I have to do in order to be able to map a planet? I've sent a manned mission up to Minmus with the intent of testing it out, but I can't get it to work. I'm in low orbit and have plenty of electricity and more than enough fuel to get back, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

[CaptRobau]

I think the problem was that I still had the science parts set to hideUIwhenUnavailable = false. This means that you get the science button even when it shouldn't work. My guess is you clicked it before you got to your low Minmus orbit, got a 'Can't be done right now' and as a result the button bugged out when you were supposed to be able to use it. I set them all to true in a hotfix (spaceport link in the OP), which will probably solve your problem.

[KerbMav]

You were always able to save multiple EVA reports. Since I changed biome-specific low orbit from EVA to Crew Reports, doing that is no longer possible. That's nothing I can change, since it's hard-coded.

I have seen youtubers taking the crew report out and putting it back in, making it possible to get another crew report.

Lately I was just building and launching, so I did not get to try it out by myself yet.

If this mechanism could be replicated ...

But we could still add this mod here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/54998-FScience-Science-Data-Transfer-v0-1

Downside: It does not respect certain limiting rules like the one-shotness of goo and materials, and it will allow saving (and returning) multiple instances of the same experiment. (x times goo experiment on Duna's surface for example.)

But2:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62270-0-23-Ship-Manifest-%28Manage-Crew-Science-Resources%29-v0-23-3-1-1-4-Feb-14

This is to have science transfer (has it) without the cheaty side effects (pending).

Getting out of your capsule to take a EVA report is just a pain and not at all fun.

Totally agree, was one of the first things I started to cry about!

Had I ever gotten around to tweak science myself, this would have been done first.

Then a few orbital missions with crew reports running only on the pod's batteries

So, energy limitation restricting useless chatter over the radio.

MumbleRamble:

With your mod we have now in orbit available: crew report, EVA, surface mapping, biome specific instruments in low orbit, micro-gravity experiment - so, what does what?

EVA being more like an achievement ("We had a Kerbal in a suit around planet x!"), mapping taking a nice picture of the planets biomes, micro-gravity explained as events in the life of the crew (in the reports), gravity scans from instruments ... what gets into a crew report? A simple "Hi, feeling great, nice view here, everything all right."? Has to be.

I haven't tried Science Revisited yet but I carry multiple crew reports with the Radial Experiment Storage Container from Talisar's Spherical and Toroidal Tank Pack.

You'll need one container for each crew report and you'll have to get the data from the pod and transfer it to the container through EVA. Each container acts like a pod and can store multiple reports, no duplicates though.

As written above, FScience gets around this. And is doesnt feel that cheaty for crew reports as long as our kerbonauts do not have a proper diary software in their pods.

[positivewun]

has anyone had issue with the hitchiker exploding in orbit??? it's sort of crazy. You send it up .. everything is fine .. leave the game (exit the game) then reload and look through the tracking station .. and JUST before you are supposed to be able to interact with it it exploded along with anything attached to it. I tried exiting ... reloading .. send another up and try again and same thing .. if you fly up from in game from another vehicle it pops about 50% of the time but Every single time if you go to it from the tracking station if explodes ....

any idea what the deal is??

[DForgas]

I really like this mod. It is restrictive, but in a good way. I'm moving in the tree more slowly than I did with the stock tree. I've been playing with it for a couple of days now and i'm only 1/3 the way through the tree. I'm using RT2 wnich makes it a bit harder, because you have to have line of sight for a transmit. I'm having loads of fun, Keep up the good work.

[BaconFuel]

This sounds good, but is there some way we can have an unmanned Science Lab? Maybe with a lower transmission boost multiplier?

[positivewun]

love this mod it IS cool ... but ..... took me about a week to sort it all out. This mod makes the SC-9000 vanish in career mode. I had to literally drop in a mod at a time to see on a separate PC from a fresh install .. but this one was the one that made it disappear in the VAB ... it still shows in the tree as being there but in the VAB its Not there.

[Sgt. Cookie]

That's a common problem with mods. Whenever you install a part mod on an in-progress Career Mode the parts do not automatically appear in the VAB. In order to fix it, you need to go to the Tree, find the node the part is in (It will have a number over it, like unactivated nodes) and click on the part. That will unlock it in your VAB.

Interesting mod, by the way. Downloading it now.

[CaptRobau]

love this mod it IS cool ... but ..... took me about a week to sort it all out. This mod makes the SC-9000 vanish in career mode. I had to literally drop in a mod at a time to see on a separate PC from a fresh install .. but this one was the one that made it disappear in the VAB ... it still shows in the tree as being there but in the VAB its Not there.

What Sgt. Cookie said.

This sounds good, but is there some way we can have an unmanned Science Lab? Maybe with a lower transmission boost multiplier?

I'll look into it. The immediate problem I see with this is that anything fit for unmanned missions would have to be light enough to work with unmanned craft. But if it's too light, it'll be too useful to bring it on manned missions for the small transmission boost.

I really like this mod. It is restrictive, but in a good way. I'm moving in the tree more slowly than I did with the stock tree. I've been playing with it for a couple of days now and i'm only 1/3 the way through the tree. I'm using RT2 wnich makes it a bit harder, because you have to have line of sight for a transmit. I'm having loads of fun, Keep up the good work.

Glad you like it.

[positivewun]

That's a common problem with mods. Whenever you install a part mod on an in-progress Career Mode the parts do not automatically appear in the VAB. In order to fix it, you need to go to the Tree, find the node the part is in (It will have a number over it, like unactivated nodes) and click on the part. That will unlock it in your VAB.

Interesting mod, by the way. Downloading it now.

the new part I did that for. But the sc-9k never got that. and it IS there in the tree .. but it isn't in the VAB ... I may not have years of experience in this game but I knew you have the click through for R&D

No this thing is flat out not showing up it's not in need of R&D in the tech tree nor is it an in progress career mode in the second PC I was testing it out in .. what i did was installed completely fresh. Installed the mod .. then played to see if it showed in the VAB when it should have showed. Everytime it was in the tree .. No need or request there for R&D it was missing in VAB .. it flat out is NOT there. so its not an in progress .. it was a fail from a fresh install and play. that was why it took so long I did that with each mod to figure out which one was causing it to fail.

Besides that I am not talking about a problem with a part in the mod .. I'm talking about with this mod in it made a part that is part of the un-moded default game, vanish.

Edited March 4, 2014 by positivewun
to calrify

[CaptRobau]

Okay I understand your problem better now. Honestly, I have no idea what could've caused this. I've tried to recreate what you've done but I can't replicate it. The SC-9001 Jr. (you keep saying SC-9000, but there's only the SC-9001) is selectable as it should be. Do you have Steam or the KSP installer?

[mdapol]

This sounds good, but is there some way we can have an unmanned Science Lab? Maybe with a lower transmission boost multiplier?

What exactly would an unmanned science lab do? If you mean something like Mars Science Laboratory, that's basically a rover with a lot of experiments. A lab implies research. How would a machine conduct research? And how is that different from a probe?

Edit: I think I see what you're asking for. You want a Part-that-increases-the-science-of-other-parts. Yeah, if you make something like that I just won't install it. Seems too cheaty to me.

Edited March 4, 2014 by mdapol

[mdapol]

That's a common problem with mods. Whenever you install a part mod on an in-progress Career Mode the parts do not automatically appear in the VAB. In order to fix it, you need to go to the Tree, find the node the part is in (It will have a number over it, like unactivated nodes) and click on the part. That will unlock it in your VAB.

Interesting mod, by the way. Downloading it now.

I wouldn't call that a "problem". It's just the way the base game handles Career mode.

[positivewun]

Okay I understand your problem better now. Honestly, I have no idea what could've caused this. I've tried to recreate what you've done but I can't replicate it. The SC-9001 Jr. (you keep saying SC-9000, but there's only the SC-9001) is selectable as it should be. Do you have Steam or the KSP installer?

sorry lol 9001 ur right. yeah I have a steam install.

huh. odd that it works fine for you .. maybe it doesn't like me or somfin heh. It is a little annoying but your mod is too nice for it to be a deal breaker .. I was just thinking it was weird. Sorta sucked because I DO like using it.

Edited March 5, 2014 by positivewun

[CaptRobau]

Luckily it's only one part and there's tons of science to find without it. Glad you like it enough that a bug doesn't ruin it.

[positivewun]

Luckily it's only one part and there's tons of science to find without it. Glad you like it enough that a bug doesn't ruin it.

heck no I'm enjoying the mod and like you said there are too many other ways to get science without it that it's all good. I was just hopin for a quick fix or something. *shrugs* In the words of a hero and great inspiration to me regarding science:

"Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"

ok ok ... maybe not that one but what the hey lets make science!! Muuhahahahahahahaha j/k and yes I am wierd ..

[TheWampa]

I think I just found a typo in ScienceRevisited.cfg:

@EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION[*]:HAS[#id[mobileMaterialsLab]]
{
        [B]@aseValue = 22.5[/B]
        @scienceCap = 30
        @dataScale = 10
}

Still new to this, but I guess it should be

@baseValue

?