Telescope facility and telescope satelites. (And another way to earn science)

[Clockwork13]

Telescope facilities are basically what you can spend science on after you unlock all the upgrades in career mode. The telescope has two big features. The one based on career mode is that you will gain a certain amount of extra science per mission. The telescope facility requires 300 science to build. It is pre-built in sandbox mode. It can also be upgraded. It has 3 upgrade paths: Distance, quality, and filtering. Distance is (obviously) how far you can see. The first upgrade costs 20 science, and it costs +10 science added onto the previous amount for each upgrade. Each upgrade increases the distance it can see by 40 km. It starts off by seeing 40 km farther then with eyes. Quality is how clear the images are. This path is limited. In fact, the only endless upgrade path is distance. The upgrades start by costing 10 science but they increase by 50 science each upgrade. There are 10 total quality upgrades available. The last type of upgrade is filtering. Filtering has two purposes. Dimming sunlight and letting you see past other spacecraft. There are 5 total upgrades for filtering. The top dimming upgrade also makes other stars 50% dimmer so you can see planets and moon, aswell as other objects easier. The dimming upgrades start at 20, and increase by 80 each time.

Telescopes are basically floating telescope facilities but without upgrades. There will be a series of lenses and other telescope materials in the part selection area while building ships. Telescopes have 2 purposes. The first one is similar to telescope facilities. You can see farther through your telescope depending on what lenses and how many you used. The other feature lets you gain .5 science per minute for every telescope you have in orbit. Telescopes on land only earn you .2 science per minute. If your kerbals have access to telescopes or the telescope facility, they can write telescope reports.

Anyway, tell me what you think about the idea of telescopes!

And yes, telescopes will have their own appearance on the orbit map.

[TheKerbonaut]

This is actually a good idea! Of course, SQUAD might be better to actually input it into the game.

[Captain Sierra]

I think static science per increment of time could lead to spammage, so I will not agree to that and say the way telescope sats generate science should be re-evaluated. That aside, I think everything else about this is an absolute necessity and should be in the game, thus I will +1 this.

As for aforementioned re-evaluation, perhaps they could be capable of performing experiments in orbit, returning premade images of nebulas, galaxies, and other things from the skybox as well as other planets. I think there should be a few different orbital telescope parts at different powers, different spectrum, etc. Each one could return a different set of images and each one would return science for those images. This would be repeatable until the image bank runs out. Telescopes should also require moderate power draw to perform the 'experiment'.

[Clockwork13]

_/-:bump:-\_

[mahparson]

Thsi would be great, but I think that the cost should get higher than you suggested.

[technicalfool]

I'm thinking that rather than having a "you can see so far", have the telescope be able to see up to a certain level of angular resolution.

To start with, you have no telescope, and the ability to see the Mun, Minmus and possibly Eve and Duna.. so these would be the only planets that appear in the tracking station. With a telescope, you may be able to make out Jool, but only get an idea that "it has moons", rather than any precise details. Eeloo would still be invisible at this point, as perhaps would Moho and Dres.

As you upgrade the telescope, or send out space probes, you start being able to see more of the solar system, and at a higher resolution.

Feel free to decide what planets should or should not be visible at whatever point, but that's the general idea.

[Thomas988]

I love this idea! +1 support.

[Clockwork13]

You have a point, but there needs to be some stable way to have an unlimited supply of science without running out of options. Maybe 1 science per 5 minutes would be better.

[Clockwork13]

Last bump for this thread.

[DJRWolf]

You should be able to see the planets. Just think about how many did we know about before the first telescope was invented.

Space based telescopes could provide a way to get science points. Stuff like IR, visible, ultra-violet, X-Ray, ect type ones. Could even mount some on space stations or maybe a base on the Mun or another moon or dwarf-planet with no atmosphere. This would be for observing stuff outside the solar system that you can never visit. (At least without FTL mods)

[allmappedout]

You have a point, but there needs to be some stable way to have an unlimited supply of science without running out of options. Maybe 1 science per 5 minutes would be better.

Why? There's more science out there than is needed for the entire tech tree. All I would have to do to complete the tech tree is launch a rubbish telescope, and time warp for 5 years, which at 100,000x would only take me about 20 minutes or so to do, and all the challenge is gone from the game. 0.2 science per minute and 1 science per 5 minutes is the same anyway.

Time can not be used as a commodity in KSP due to time warp, it just doesn't work. Otherwise, I'm happy with the idea of having telescopes and cool stuff to launch and have persistent in orbit. The idea of being able to run a number of experiments on planets seems cool.

[sgtscuba]

Why? There's more science out there than is needed for the entire tech tree. All I would have to do to complete the tech tree is launch a rubbish telescope, and time warp for 5 years, which at 100,000x would only take me about 20 minutes or so to do, and all the challenge is gone from the game. 0.2 science per minute and 1 science per 5 minutes is the same anyway.

Time can not be used as a commodity in KSP due to time warp, it just doesn't work. Otherwise, I'm happy with the idea of having telescopes and cool stuff to launch and have persistent in orbit. The idea of being able to run a number of experiments on planets seems cool.

^This, I think there is a mod out there that does it, but would be nice to become stock.

[Clockwork13]

It's based on real time, not Kerbin time.

[DJRWolf]

Why? There's more science out there than is needed for the entire tech tree.......

The current tech tree is not going to be the end of it. They are going to add the other two factors that you can trade between the 3 for. Cost, Reputation, and Science. Once that is in play you will need all the spare science you can get.

[Skyler4856]

bump

I concur

[KASASpace]

Not to be offensive, but I don't think this idea is entirely good. Telescopes in general is good. But, it shouldn't cost science. In fact, you should start with a fairly powerful one. After all, Galileo saw Jupiter and two of it's moons with a fairly small telescope. Roentgen discovered Neptune's moons (at least) with a back yard telescope. So, no science costs, and should start with a decent one.

[Capt Snuggler]

Telescopes really need to be implemented in KSP in some way but having them generate a steady flow of science per RL minute is NOT a good way of implementing them.

maybe they could be used as a central device that grants X science when put in stable orbit and more science each time its upgraded? starting with visible light upgrade to infrared, ultraviolet, radio, x-ray, gamma ray, microwave. each successful upgrade granting more science.

maybe taking cool in game pictures could grant reputation or prestige or whatever?

[SRV Ron]

Telescopes really need to be implemented in KSP in some way but having them generate a steady flow of science per RL minute is NOT a good way of implementing them.

maybe they could be used as a central device that grants X science when put in stable orbit and more science each time its upgraded? starting with visible light upgrade to infrared, ultraviolet, radio, x-ray, gamma ray, microwave. each successful upgrade granting more science.

maybe taking cool in game pictures could grant reputation or prestige or whatever?

Science should be based upon what is discovered, not just from a constant use. While planets visible to the Kerbal eye should appear in map and control center, the others would appear as they are discovered either by the telescope or, say a probe to Jool where its smaller moons become detectable. Long range, should interstellar flight become implemented, the telescope would be key for finding those nearby stars with planets where missions could be sent for exploration.

Just an idea, of course.

[Artikae]

Maybe use these telescopes to measure phase angles to perform interplanetary transfers?

[allmappedout]

Maybe use these telescopes to measure phase angles to perform interplanetary transfers?

You know, this is an unintended but totally useful idea - as it stands there's no way of working out your ejection angle or phase angle within the game - as a result it's a lot of guessing with maneuveur nodes based on past experience, etc. It's the one piece of information which is missing from the game that definitely should be in stock (of course, I'd love to see a Kerbal Engineer-esque readout in game too), but it definitely makes good sense to use a telescope to give the ability to view phase angles.

[PlonioFludrasco]

Telescopes are a good idea, and a ground observatory is already planned (even not for the next update).

Space telescopes are a good idea too, they could be used to discover new planets/muns ur to unlock planetary descriptions (the ones you found in the traking station when you focus on a planet)

This may be OT: about science, a little thing I don't like at all is that you can unlock the whole tech tree without leaving Kerbin SOI.

Edited February 4, 2014 by PlonioFludrasco

[lttito]

I'm happy with the idea of telescopes in general, and for the idea of getting science points, instead of getting it by passing time, I think it could be better to have like "interstellar biomes", I mean, certain orientations where you have to point your telescope and look through it (like an experiment) and get an observation of a certain biome (like a quasar, or magellan clouds or god's fingers, kerbal style) and get some science points for getting it, like any other experiment. Cool thing could be that attached to this experiments, and for each biome, it would grant you a picture of said object.

[JimmyAgent007]

I think science over time could work if it was disabled or reduced during timewarp. Maybe reduced by the same factor as the timewarp. Also limited to 1 per biome or something.

[coolitic]

Im a bit skeptical about this. I understand for charting planets, but, science gain should be limited or non-existant.

[Lunknumb]

Telescopes/observatory could give science-opportunities, and not science points directly. Like discovering moons, asteroids and biomes on nearby bodies. Maybe give unmanned probes a similar function, like orbit with an optical or radar instrument to detect places of interest.

It'll add a place to put more narrative, more gameplay and a way of directing the player on what he should be doing instead of the "just do everything everywhere"-approach we have now.