[0.23.5] Goodspeed Automatic Fuel Pump v2.14.1

[TheDude]

Greetings,

(OK... now that I'm properly caffeinated I can post this in the CORRECT place. *bangs head agains the wall.* )

Gawd, I love this mod! It has removed the majority of micromanaging resource transfers between my space stations and docked ships. I do however, wish it was a bit more granular to allow for more flexability. This wish comes from the fact that the pumping action is set at a tank level and not at a resouce level which prevents you from transfering resources both IN and OUT of the same tank. A good example of this are life support resources. I'll use TAC Life Support as an example.

When I dock I want food, water and O2 to be transfered to the ship while waste, wastewater and CO2 to be transfered to the station. Since all of these resources are stored in one container on the station, what actually happens is food, water, O2, waste, wastewater and CO2 are filled on the ship. I'm then forced to manually transfer the waste, wastewater and CO2 back to the station using TAC Fuel balancer.

This problem can also arise from the use of the Modular Fuel Tanks mod. If you have a tank configured to hold LF, Oxy and Kethane then you'll have to do the same thing when your Kethane miner docks.

So, my feature request goes something like this:

You wish to keep the right click menu uncluttered and simple. Hell Yes. I completly agree. Change nothing there. Put everything under the pump options button/menu. The new menu would look like this terrible ASCII art example below.

[ pump ] [ balance ] [==========6_________] Food

[ pump ] [ balance ] [==========6_________] Water

[ pump ] [ balance ] [==========6_________] O2

[ pump ] [ balance ] [=====3________________] Waste

[ pump ] [ balance ] [=====3________________] Wastewater

[ pump ] [ balance ] [=====3________________] CO2

The only thing left is the tank level slider on the top right click menu. My first thought was to leve it exactly where it is and use that as a tank default level setting. Setting it to level 6 for example would set all of the resource sliders to 6. Afterward you can change the individual higher or lower. The only problem I see with that is if later you change the default level then it could reset all of the individual resources to that new level. I guess you could add a third button labeled "Default" which would allow that resource to follow the tank default level rather than a custom level. That's starting to get complicated and I'm not sure I like that idea.

Ok, this post is getting long I my boss would like for me to do some real work rather than spend all day on the KSP forum so I'll stop here. What do you guys think?

Best regards,

The Dude

[Crater]

Greetings,

(OK... now that I'm properly caffeinated I can post this in the CORRECT place. *bangs head agains the wall.* )

...snip...Food...snip....Waste...snip...

Best regards,

The Dude

I was considering this exact problem last night while lying in bed, (yeah, okay, I know).... and what I thought up was... what about if you could configure that for certain resources, the pump direction was always inverted. So a if you set a tank at level 7 and pump-on, it will always fill attached oxygen containers, but always drain attached CO2 containers (whether it is this tank or the containing tank that needs to have pumping on is a separate question).

Then all that you would need would be a one-stop config screen where you could say which resources were inverted, and leave the per-tank stuff entirely alone.

(And yeah, I've been waiting until you put this up in the correct thread before replying).

[TheDude]

Hmmmm...... That is certainly a much more elegant solution than the one I proposed. I have the nagging thought that may not be as flexable but I can't come up with any practical examples to support that statement. I'd imagine your way would be much easier to code as well.

I've been thinking about the dump option as well. It's __RARE__ that I ever use it but when I do it's always to dump life support waste products. Having it in this mod would be nice as then I could uninstall TAC.

Best regards,

The (Now fully awake) Dude

EDIT:

Ah, now I know what's bothering me. I now wonder how the "Always Invert" option would affect the "pumping high to low" model this mod uses. Again using life support as an example we'll say the station tank is level 7 and the docked ship is level 1. Food, Water and O2 would be pumped from the high level to the low level. Waste, wastewater and CO2 would be pumped "against the flow" so to speek. I've not looked at the code but I wonder if that will break how the mod functions.

Edited February 18, 2014 by TheDude
More Thoughts

[Crater]

Hmmmm...... That is certainly a much more elegant solution than the one I proposed. I have the nagging thought that may not be as flexable but I can't come up with any practical examples to support that statement. I'd imagine your way would be much easier to code as well.

I've been thinking about the dump option as well. It's __RARE__ that I ever use it but when I do it's always to dump life support waste products. Having it in this mod would be nice as then I could uninstall TAC.

Best regards,

The (Now fully awake) Dude

EDIT:

Ah, now I know what's bothering me. I now wonder how the "Always Invert" option would affect the "pumping high to low" model this mod uses. Again using life support as an example we'll say the station tank is level 7 and the docked ship is level 1. Food, Water and O2 would be pumped from the high level to the low level. Waste, wastewater and CO2 would be pumped "against the flow" so to speek. I've not looked at the code but I wonder if that will break how the mod functions.

It is undoubtedly less flexible, and a good example to cite of when it breaks down would be in a closed system where you recycle everything, and you're emptying a vessel for deorbiting and destruction - you wouldn't want CO2/waste/wastewater on it either, but that's when you turn off auto pumping and use TAC Fuel Balancer instead.

And yeah, I was thinking about the simplest to code and simplest UI that covered 90% (or more) of the cases. As for how to implement it, I haven't looked at the code either, but just think of it as transferring a negative quantity of resource each pumping cycle, so you could store +1 or -1 as the directional state for each resource, and then just use it as a multiplier. (But I'll shut up now, it's not for me to declare how to do it, unless I'm prepared to submit a patch )

[DerekL1963]

Does anyone know if this works with TAC Life Support resources? KSP Interstellar resources?

[Superfluous J]

Does anyone know if this works with TAC Life Support resources? KSP Interstellar resources?

It doesn't work for ore, metal and rocket parts for ELP so I don't think it'll work for those.

[Gaius]

It definitely works with rocket parts and other ELP resources, once the appropriate additions to the config file are made. I've never used TACLS, but unless there's something particularly funky about how their resources work, there's no reason why it wouldn't work.

All bets are off with Interstellar; that mod does so many utterly bizarre and funky things that I wouldn't dream of guessing... but you can certainly try and see.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Gaius

[Superfluous J]

It definitely works with rocket parts and other ELP resources, once the appropriate additions to the config file are made. I've never used TACLS, but unless there's something particularly funky about how their resources work, there's no reason why it wouldn't work.

Sorry, I should have been more clear and said "Out of the box"

[DerekL1963]

It definitely works with rocket parts and other ELP resources, once the appropriate additions to the config file are made. I've never used TACLS, but unless there's something particularly funky about how their resources work, there's no reason why it wouldn't work.

Ok... does anyone have the appropriate config setups?

[wrexecute]

Ok... does anyone have the appropriate config setups?

Try this out, I use it and love it. It would pump anything from TAC. I've also thought of ECLSS even though I'm currently not using it. It even grabs tanks with no default resource definitions like Spherical and Toroidal utility tanks after using MFT to fill them in VAB. It would take care of RocketParts, Ore and Metal as well.:

//-------------------------------------
// TWEAK FOR MFT
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleFuelTanks],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}
//-------------------------------------
// TWEAK FOR EPL
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[RocketParts],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Ore],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Metal],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}
//-------------------------------------
// TWEAK FOR TAC
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Food],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Water],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}
// This should grab ECLSS as well
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Oxygen],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}
// If not then this will
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[CO2],!MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[GoodspeedPump]]
{

	MODULE
	{
	  name = GoodspeedPump
	}

}

[DerekL1963]

Try this out, I use it and love it. It would pump anything from TAC. I've also thought of ECLSS even though I'm currently not using it.

Thanks, ten characters worth even!

[DerekL1963]

Try this out, I use it and love it. It would pump anything from TAC. I've also thought of ECLSS even though I'm currently not using it.

Experimenting with this last night, and it's missing two resources - Waste and Wastewater. You wouldn't happen to know the proper resource names for those?

[wrexecute]

Sure thing. They go: Waste, WasteWater, and also I left out CarbonDioxide. They're defined names are CamelCased like that. These resources don't mean life or death since TAC autodumps any excess, but I can definitely see a use for waste pumping. Greenhouse comes to mind.

[DerekL1963]

It's mostly making sure my taxi's and Progress clones don't carry any WasteWater or CarbonDioxide away with them if there's room to store it on the station or base. Nitpicky, I know, but waste not, want not.

[merendel]

First off lovely mod. I just found out about it and am loveing it already. Only thing on my wish list atm would be if it could integrate with TAC's window so I could either set things externally like now or just through the window. That however is a minor want, this is good as it is.

When I dock I want food, water and O2 to be transfered to the ship while waste, wastewater and CO2 to be transfered to the station. Since all of these resources are stored in one container on the station, what actually happens is food, water, O2, waste, wastewater and CO2 are filled on the ship. I'm then forced to manually transfer the waste, wastewater and CO2 back to the station using TAC Fuel balancer.

you could acomplish that particular example if you added a second life support tank to the station. Have 1 big tank for your main LS supplies on the station and set it to 7/8 or whatever. Add a smaller tank to the station set to 0. set the tanks on every other craft to >0. how big that smaller tank is is up to you, however much waste you expect to be needing to proccess at a time. That smaller tank will always be full of good resources and wont pump out, think of it as emergency rations for the station crew. Assuming that smaller tank is not full of waste it will pull the waste from any docked craft. If you overflow your buffer you'll still need to transfer manualy till it clears out but it would alow for the automation you desire.

[Crater]

you could acomplish that particular example if you added a second life support tank to the station. Have 1 big tank for your main LS supplies on the station and set it to 7/8 or whatever. Add a smaller tank to the station set to 0. set the tanks on every other craft to >0. how big that smaller tank is is up to you, however much waste you expect to be needing to proccess at a time. That smaller tank will always be full of good resources and wont pump out, think of it as emergency rations for the station crew. Assuming that smaller tank is not full of waste it will pull the waste from any docked craft. If you overflow your buffer you'll still need to transfer manualy till it clears out but it would alow for the automation you desire.

Unfortunately, the way TAC Lifesupport works is that the same single tank stores both the consumabe and the waste product, so, for example, and O2 tank with start with 100/100 Oxygen, and also 0/100 CarbonDioxide, and as you use up the O2, that drains and the CO2 produced fills it. So after 30 unit used, you'd have, say, 70/100 O2 and 30/100 CO2.

The clash here is that one tank can only have one pump level, so when your resupply ship arrives to fill the station with O2 and collect the CO2, there is no way that you can set a fuel pump level that does both, as it will either pump consumable AND waste into the station, or consumable AND waste into the return vessel, you cannot split them.

So the only way to do it is manually, which is exactly what this wonderful mod was created to avoid.

[kiwiak]

I think there shoudl be also negative values of fuel tank levels. That way, i coudl easily pump fuel from all tanks into specific one, just by setting it to -1, instead setting all to 1, and leave speific tank 0.

[TheDude]

Unfortunately, the way TAC Lifesupport works is that the same single tank stores both the consumabe and the waste product, so, for example, and O2 tank with start with 100/100 Oxygen, and also 0/100 CarbonDioxide, and as you use up the O2, that drains and the CO2 produced fills it. So after 30 unit used, you'd have, say, 70/100 O2 and 30/100 CO2.

The clash here is that one tank can only have one pump level, so when your resupply ship arrives to fill the station with O2 and collect the CO2, there is no way that you can set a fuel pump level that does both, as it will either pump consumable AND waste into the station, or consumable AND waste into the return vessel, you cannot split them.

So the only way to do it is manually, which is exactly what this wonderful mod was created to avoid.

Greetings,

This was the point I brought up in the previous page. Being able to set pump levels by resource would solve this issue. Well, not so much "issue" but more of an "inconvenience". Lately I've become somewhat obsessed with reducing part counts so I don't use the TAC Life Support containers as they can get quite numerous and create a cluttered appearance. Instead I use 2 decent sized fuel tanks and the Modular Fuels mod to assign life support to one and waste to the other. By having two tanks I'm able to set pump levels for both and accomplish the automatic transferes that have been discussed. It's kind of a band-aid fix but it does work.

Best regards,

The Dude

[Superfluous J]

I think there shoudl be also negative values of fuel tank levels. That way, i coudl easily pump fuel from all tanks into specific one, just by setting it to -1, instead setting all to 1, and leave speific tank 0.

Setting a tank to -1 and the rest to 0 is functionally the same as setting a tank to 0 and the rest to 1.

Except I guess you have to do more clicking, but once you've done it once it does all the work for you. And if you tweak it in the VAB before building the ship you can take advantage of symmetry.

And let's face it, no amount of tweaking your ship to work with this mod is going to even APPROACH the fiddling you have to do in the stock game to transfer fuel in even a single refueling session on most ships.

I personally set my kethane bases' tanks to 8, my fuel lifters' tanks to 7, and my orbital refueling outposts' tanks to 6. Other ships then can play around in the 0-5 range.

Edited March 3, 2014 by 5thHorseman

[kiwiak]

Setting a tank to -1 and the rest to 0 is functionally the same as setting a tank to 0 and the rest to 1.

Except I guess you have to do more clicking, but once you've done it once it does all the work for you. And if you tweak it in the VAB before building the ship you can take advantage of symmetry.

And let's face it, no amount of tweaking your ship to work with this mod is going to even APPROACH the fiddling you have to do in the stock game to transfer fuel in even a single refueling session on most ships.

Thats the point, less clicking.

Setting radial placed tanks levels during ascent one by one woudl destabilize rocket.

Doing same thing in one click woudl not.

[Superfluous J]

Thats the point, less clicking.

Setting radial placed tanks levels during ascent one by one woudl destabilize rocket.

Doing same thing in one click woudl not.

But you can do it in one click, in the VAB.

Which was less than 3 minutes ago if you're in ascent.

[kiwiak]

But you can do it in one click, in the VAB.

Which was less than 3 minutes ago if you're in ascent.

Hmm.. thats true.

But nevertheless, negative levels woudl make this mod even more perfect.

[Gaius]

Alternately, the default level could be set to a positive number, so that the same result could be achieved without resort to "absurd numbers" (as negative numbers were historically called).

I've been planning on adding a config setting to set the default tank level. I'll make sure that gets into the next update, and probably make the default default 1. Separate level settings per resource is another thing that will probably get added to the pump options window at some point.

Only thing on my wish list atm would be if it could integrate with TAC's window so I could either set things externally like now or just through the window.

That's very much on my wishlist, too. That ball is in TaranisElsu's court, so I can't make any promises on when or even if, but I can say we've exchanged PMs and they have my permission to incorporate any or all of this mod into TACFB.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Gaius

[kiwiak]

I think i will bump this to make suggestion, TAC fuel ballancer has dump fuel option, so this coudl be included in goodspeed too.

[JedTech]

That would be a helpful feature. Perhaps a Dump option could be placed under "Pump Options"?