KSP - Why no 64-bit?

[TheSkyShaft]

Ok i don't know about you, but i play ksp for fun and make giant death Satelites and bomb them with mods like the lazor system.

But when i play these things i feel that i am limited to the size and complexity of these wars.

Others might make giant space station citys, but just the threat, that is ''The game would be too buggy'' if it was in 64-bit.

Ok, i know that squad wants to make the best ''build and fly rocket simulator'' but, seriously THE GAME is in 0.23, do you understand?

THERE is a reason for someone comeing up with calling a game ''alpha''.

There is a reason why this is here -----> 0.23.

If my arrow don't explain well enough, then i will say it here: The meaning with the word alpha is early-development,

that then translates too ''BUGS, LOTS OF BUGS!''

so, squad don't think about that you will make the game less play-e-bal cause, it is bugs, and bugs can be solved.

I won't care if kerbin was translated into hell, i just want a 64-bit game, like every singel builder and mod user.

Remember my words, the game is not yet done, even if it takes you 5 years too solve the bugs that would come from a 64bit version, i would be happy, and every singel 64bit pc user that plays ksp would be happy.

Hope that 64bit will come before 0.30

-Some random guy useing alot of mods with 64bit machine

[sal_vager]

Because Unity 64bit support for Windows and OSX is not yet stable enough for releases, remember KSP is made in the Unity game engine, when that has stable 64bit support, so will KSP.

Linux 64bit support works fine however

[Captain Sierra]

There are bugs, and then there are computer melting bugs. 64 bit Unity has the computer melting bugs. It's so far from stable that it's unlikely squad would make much progress given how frequently it can crash. So the real limitation is placed by Unity, and is there until Windows and Mac 64 bit Unity are stable enough to work with and release on.

EDIT: Even the mods have ninja skills!

[katateochi]

as Captain Sierra and sal_vager have said the real issue is with Unity.

But even if the 64 bit unity was stable and would provide a quick solution to memory issues it is not the elegant answer. There are issues with how KSP uses memory, so you could just add more memory, but that only pushes the problem away until you hit the level of memory an average gamer has. Mod users will be happy for a bit, but then they will just add more and more mods and find they've hit the same wall again.

It is better that Squad continues with 32bit limitations and optimizes the game for that as a) there are still some 32 bit users, they maybe only a few but they shouldn't be excluded, and when they come to adding 64bit support they will have a cleaner solution that will make better use of the available memory and we won't all be running out to by more RAM.

[Captain Sierra]

as Captain Sierra and sal_vager have said the real issue is with Unity.

But even if the 64 bit unity was stable and would provide a quick solution to memory issues it is not the elegant answer. There are issues with how KSP uses memory, so you could just add more memory, but that only pushes the problem away until you hit the level of memory an average gamer has. Mod users will be happy for a bit, but then they will just add more and more mods and find they've hit the same wall again.

It is better that Squad continues with 32bit limitations and optimizes the game for that as a) there are still some 32 bit users, they maybe only a few but they shouldn't be excluded, and when they come to adding 64bit support they will have a cleaner solution that will make better use of the available memory and we won't all be running out to by more RAM.

IIRC, part of the lack of optimization is texture loading. .png is supposed to be the smallest size and take up the least RAM, but there's an issue with Unity right now where it's even worse than stock .mbm, inherently making .tga the best as of right now, and even still, it's not a great solution.

[zgrillo2004]

I can understand on why they cant get a 64bit version. what bothers me is why the people in Unity are taking very long on getting the 64 bit version to be stable. whats hindering their progress?

[coolitic]

I will install linux (most likely steamos) just to have ksp 64 bit.

[Nuke]

this has been a major pet peeve of mine for at least 10 years. back then, i got my first 64 bit machine. i made the early leap to 64 bit operating systems (starting with xp pro 64). i thought, now i just got to wait for 64 bit software. thing is im still waiting. ive gone through 3 or 4 machines during that wait, but still over half the software i use is still 32 bit. it has taken some developers far too long to take the plunge. unity has the same problem.

[TheSkyShaft]

Well, i don't understand why they still use unity then, why not turn to another engine that supports 64bit before the game gets to cmoplex?

[vexx32]

Well, i don't understand why they still use unity then, why not turn to another engine that supports 64bit before the game gets to cmoplex?

Because, obviously, it already has. Let's see...

There's rocket building, and rocket flying, a (crude) aerodynamics model, gravity, spherical planets textured with non-spherical meshes (boy is that a tough trick to pull off), a skybox for space to show the stars, gas giants as well as standard solid planets and a star. There's docking, and EVA, and IVA and unmanned flight as well as manned. There're facial expression animations and algorithms, animations for ground crew in the construction scenes, background animations for those scenes, science and transmitting data, and storing EVA and crew reports along with soil samples and any other scientific report. You can transmit data, or keep it and recover your craft. We've got parachutes (also fairly crude) and control surfaces, and wheels for rovers and planes. We've got fuel transfer and SABREs (i.e., the RAPIER), along with LFEs, SRBs, and plain ol' jet engines. There's distinction for night and day, and fully functioning solar panels, not to mention RTGs, ion engines and fuels and oxidisers.

If they attempt to transfer the code responsible for all that (plus all I haven't mentioned yet; there's lots more, especially behind the scenes stuff that's unnoticed by still very much necessary) to another engine, they'd basically have to re-code probably somewhere between 40%-80% of it in order to make it compatible with the new engine. That means we'd likely be sitting on our hands for a good six months to a year, or more, while we wait to see whether it was even worth the wait, much less actually making improvements.

In addition, to the best of my knowledge, Unity is one of the most comprehensive engines for computer games that exists. If they, for example, switched to the physics engine which I believe is known as Bullet, there are a great many things that would need coding from scratch that originally didn't need to be coded in the first place, as it was all handled by Unity. Plus, there is a good chance that KSP may go up in price in order to pay for some kind of ridiculously expensive licence on the engine; Unity's pretty lenient on the licencing pricing, last I heard. (But naturally, it depends on the engine and who's developing it, etc.)

Finally, if you look at the track record of games that switched engines even once -- or even more rarely, more than once -- it really does not bode well at all. Look at Duke Nukem Forever (I think it was that one, anyway). Biggest flunk in a very long time, and got delayed by what, a decade?!

It is not worth it. Especially​ for a game as popular as KSP.

[Tw1]

Plus, one advantage with unity- with a little prompting, it's relatively simple try making mods, especially part mods. There is a free version available. I have no idea what other engines are like when it comes down to easy access, but perhaps we wouldn't have the wonderful range of mods that there are now if it was not on unity.

[Nuke]

switching game engines isnt the answer, development is too far along for such nonsense.

but i hope that when ksp2 comes around, that they would either go with a more advanced engine, or take the plunge and write their own. as far as modding goes, any game engine can be modded, even reluctant ones (i remember having to hex edit on a few games). if you use an out of box engine, then dev tools will already exist for it. a custom engine would require mod support, perhaps with members of the community making modding tools. game engine design is a well understood science and code is very malleable.

[Winter Man]

switching game engines isnt the answer, development is too far along for such nonsense.

but i hope that when ksp2 comes around, that they would either go with a more advanced engine, or take the plunge and write their own. as far as modding goes, any game engine can be modded, even reluctant ones (i remember having to hex edit on a few games). if you use an out of box engine, then dev tools will already exist for it. a custom engine would require mod support, perhaps with members of the community making modding tools. game engine design is a well understood science and code is very malleable.

Who says there'll be a KSP2? Not everything needs a sequel.

[Mmmmyum]

Who says there'll be a KSP2? Not everything needs a sequel.

I agree with this. Let squad make something different if they want, and not be too expectant on what comes next.

[Guest]

Who says there'll be a KSP2? Not everything needs a sequel.

As the Alien film franchise has proved so well.

I too would love a 64-bit version of KSP, but Squad's hands are tied. Patience is the order of the day.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Jack Wolfe

[Vahal]

Yup let them finish the KSP ONE before thinking about the next . It's obviously frustrating to see the game crippled by the 32bits limitation but according to what is already made, the frustration is not caused by the fact i can't play just cause there are so much cool stuff made about KSP and I can't try them all. Just hope one day we'll have this 64b Unity and a KSP-64

[coolitic]

Well one thing they can do is modify the existing unity engine to tailor their personal needs. Far Cry has done this with the CryEngine.

EDIT: Of course it would take up dev time.

[pxi]

Well one thing they can do is modify the existing unity engine to tailor their personal needs. Far Cry has done this with the CryEngine.

EDIT: Of course it would take up dev time.

AFAIK, this is what Squad have done.

Thing about CryEngine is it was made by Crytek, so modifying their own engine to suit a game they were producing is... well a lot easier than Squad making back-end ajustments to Unity.

[MartGonzo]

Well....if they ever did make a KSP2, it would be nice if they would think about space engine

I don't suppose that likely but I dream...

[Winter Man]

Well one thing they can do is modify the existing unity engine to tailor their personal needs. Far Cry has done this with the CryEngine.

EDIT: Of course it would take up dev time.

Not that virtually any of the CryEngine survived through to Far Cry 2, let alone 3.

[coolitic]

AFAIK, this is what Squad have done.

Thing about CryEngine is it was made by Crytek, so modifying their own engine to suit a game they were producing is... well a lot easier than Squad making back-end ajustments to Unity.

Sorry I meant the Ubisoft Far Cry and the console ports were modified CryEngines. Also another dev who modified an engine is Badspot who modified torque engine for blockland. The dude doesn't have that high of a budget yet he modified the engine so much. Yet I keep telling him on the forums he needs to start from scratch.

[ctbram]

I will install linux (most likely steamos) just to have ksp 64 bit.

I considered this too but it's not a real solution as you don't have access to the same number of mods in the unix env. So although you now have the memory you don't have anything to consume it.

[coolitic]

Can we just start banning the OP's of these threads?

I cannot take another "idea" THATS ON THE DO NOT SUGGEST LIST.

[pxi]

Can we just start banning the OP's of these threads?

I cannot take another "idea" THATS ON THE DO NOT SUGGEST LIST.

A simpler solution that wouldn't involve a forum-purge; maybe you could just stop reading the suggestion forums for a bit?

[Nemrav]

OK LETS GET THESE STUPID REPEAT THREADS OVER WITH :

a youtuber interviewing c7 who is a KSP dev.

http://www.twitch.tv/hocgaming/b/443077849?t=1h0m15s

WILL PEOPLE STOP ASKING NOW !!!!