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The Ultimate VTOL Challenge

Fengist

By Fengist
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas

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Fengist

Fengist

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So I have to ask, because I've been trying to do this challenge. Is MechJeb not allowed to fly? Or can we not have MechJeb on at all? I don't usually let Jeb fly, but I use it for all kinds of useful information and I'm finding it pretty difficult to fly without it.

I finally landed on the island using Engineer, but then the Kraken got me as I was unloading my Kerbals. I don't know if it was Engineer, but it was pretty frustrating after so many vehicle crashes.

Though I didn't mention it, any autopilot, except on circumnavigations, is not allowed. Post some shots of the VTOL you're working with and I'm sure you'll get some ideas and feedback on how to make it more flyable manually. Trust me, it can be done and once you have the skills, you'll say bye to Jeb.

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Claw

Claw

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Though I didn't mention it, any autopilot, except on circumnavigations, is not allowed. Post some shots of the VTOL you're working with and I'm sure you'll get some ideas and feedback on how to make it more flyable manually. Trust me, it can be done and once you have the skills, you'll say bye to Jeb.

Hmm, I'm not sure if I asked my question right. I know idea behind how to fly a VTOL. It isn't that I just engage MechJeb and let it land (Jeb has only ever landed once for me). It is that MechJeb gives me information (like acceleration rates) that help me land. My graphics are down so that I can actually play, but that means I am missing things like shadows and the terrain is really smooth. That makes it hard for me to tell how far away the land is, or how fast I'm falling.

I've sort of overcome some of this by adding lights and using Engineer. Although I don't use Engineer much so I don't even know if it has an autopilot? If using Engineer is acceptable, I will learn how to fly with that. It isn't the autopilot I'm asking for, I need the information so that I can land a bit easier.

Also, I'm trying to build a larger VTOL for this so maybe that's part of my problem. The speeds are more critical because it's a bit more heavy/fragile. Maybe I'll just go for a small, stout design to handle that roughness.

So is it that I can't use the autopilot? Or that MechJeb isn't allowed on the craft at all?

Edited by Claw
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m1sz

m1sz

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I only used mechjeb in the circunnavigation challenge I think, SAS is very stable in the BAT VTOL :)

other than that, if you manage to get the Center of Mass just in the middle of the fuel section of your ship, when it's depleted it wont affect your COM so you will be able to land do maneuver just all right :D

take a look at my BAT-VTOL COM, COT and COL. pretty much perfect at any moment :) (you may need to balance the fuel with TAC fuel balancer, but this is easy :))

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m1sz

m1sz

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BAT-VTOL did the Osprey Award.

Quick video with the proof: (will be available within 5 minutes)

Updated my BATVTOL post here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67461-The-Ultimate-VTOL-Challenge?p=938998&viewfull=1#post938998

ONLY The MLRV Award (Munar Landing Research Vehicle) to go! and I alrdy reached the moon with this monster :P

more soon :)

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Claw

Claw

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I only used mechjeb in the circunnavigation challenge I think, SAS is very stable in the BAT VTOL :)

other than that, if you manage to get the Center of Mass just in the middle of the fuel section of your ship, when it's depleted it wont affect your COM so you will be able to land do maneuver just all right :D

take a look at my BAT-VTOL COM, COT and COL. pretty much perfect at any moment :) (you may need to balance the fuel with TAC fuel balancer, but this is easy :))

http://imgur.com/a/5Dhh2

Hmm. If this is in response to my post then maybe I'm still being confusing.

This isn't a controllability issue. I'm not asking "hey, can Jeb land this thing for me because it's all wacky and I can't handle it."

I'm saying that my computer is old, and my graphics are cranked down. I have a hard time telling things like "How high off the ground am I?" since there are no shadows.

Anyway, I was going to write a list of what I use MechJeb for, but the bottom line is I'm asking if MechJeb or Engineer are not allowed at all. I already know I can't use the autopilot, but that's not what I'm asking.

If you can't even have MechJeb installed (except for circumnav), please just say that. I'm just trying to understand the rules and not cheat.

Thanks! :)

EDIT: Oh, like the post above this one. m1sz has MechJeb on the craft in the video and it isn't circumnavigation.

Edited by Claw
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m1sz

m1sz

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Hmm. If this is in response to my post then maybe I'm still being confusing.

This isn't a controllability issue. I'm not asking "hey, can Jeb land this thing for me because it's all wacky and I can't handle it."

I'm saying that my computer is old, and my graphics are cranked down. I have a hard time telling things like "How high off the ground am I?" since there are no shadows.

Anyway, I was going to write a list of what I use MechJeb for, but the bottom line is I'm asking if MechJeb or Engineer are not allowed at all. I already know I can't use the autopilot, but that's not what I'm asking.

If you can't even have MechJeb installed (except for circumnav), please just say that. I'm just trying to understand the rules and not cheat.

Thanks! :)

EDIT: Oh, like the post above this one. m1sz has MechJeb on the craft in the video and it isn't circumnavigation.

Yes!, the mechjeb ban, only use to apply to the autopilot. Having MechJeb for information is OK i guess!

In fact, I use it as a proof of the percentage of mass carried in atleast two of the challenges :)

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Ryu Gemini

Ryu Gemini

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Just an update.

I finally got around to making a video of the Science Train (flying edition), in which I make some iffy attempts at humor but otherwise showcase some of its capabilities, including its freakish stability.

Edit: On a side note, I am contemplating building a one-legged pogo-bot with infernal robotics to submit for the Pogo Stick award. And maybe the take-award-names-too-literally award. Well, actually, I am just contemplating building one, period. The realization that there is a pogo stick award in this challenge topic is an add-on joke.

I mean, how hard can it be to make a pogo stick in KSP?

Edited by Ryu Gemini
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Fengist

Fengist

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Hmm. If this is in response to my post then maybe I'm still being confusing.

This isn't a controllability issue. I'm not asking "hey, can Jeb land this thing for me because it's all wacky and I can't handle it."

I'm saying that my computer is old, and my graphics are cranked down. I have a hard time telling things like "How high off the ground am I?" since there are no shadows.

Anyway, I was going to write a list of what I use MechJeb for, but the bottom line is I'm asking if MechJeb or Engineer are not allowed at all. I already know I can't use the autopilot, but that's not what I'm asking.

If you can't even have MechJeb installed (except for circumnav), please just say that. I'm just trying to understand the rules and not cheat.

Thanks! :)

EDIT: Oh, like the post above this one. m1sz has MechJeb on the craft in the video and it isn't circumnavigation.

My challenges are never about cheating, they're about challenging yourself. I used Jeb when I first started playing KSP. I watched Jeb. I learned. Now, I don't even have it installed. I dock faster, fly better, launch better and generally do anything Jeb can do better. The reason I put the ban on Jeb is because the more you learn how to fly your craft the better you'll become AT flying them. There are many things Jeb simply cannot do. Using Jeb to handle long boring flights, that I can understand. Using it for a crutch? Naaa... in my challenges you learn to walk. The simple fact is, my challenges are designed to be fun while you're doing them. The odds are, once you're done, you'll never fly that plane again. So while you are, YOU have fun, not Jeb.

Therefore, if you wish to use Jeb for info purposes, I won't stop or disqualify you. Only YOU know if you used it to blast through the challenges. If you need it because you're computer is like my laptop, ancient and you want the info, do so. If you wan't to autopilot with it, do so. I won't know the difference and I'll still post you on the leader board. You will though.

Edited by Fengist
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Fengist

Fengist

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After some long consideration and some lengthy testing, I have removed the restriction on reactors and generators. While they do provide some serious benefits with weight and unlimited (or nearly so) fuel, every electric or mostly electric engine I tested utterly failed any attempt to get into orbit. Their thrust and power requirements completely offset their infinite fuel.

Therefore, let's see some electric power.

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Darren9

Darren9

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I have a new design that should make the Pogo award this time, has a central winch for cargo and seven permanent seats in a crew compartment. So far I've only completed the Harrier and Moller Distinctions during a test flight that turned into a fast lap, and of course flew upside down as I just watched someone else do it. I'll update the rest as I get around to doing them.

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Darren9

Darren9

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Darren9, I love your plane, I also like to use pwings to make nice shapes!, but your's is brilliant!!! :)
Thanks, it was the BATVTOL's cool wings that made me start experimenting and that little 5T ship ended up at 140 parts :) I can't wait to see your stunt vid, I destroyed a couple of craft trying to get that flip at a low speed/altitude.
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Darren9

Darren9

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I changed to a slightly more compact design, this is the one I want to enter. It launches at 4.5T and can accommodate a 2m wide payload. So far I've loaded a MK2 pod (with 3 parachute for 4.6T/100% payload) and six Kerbals, dropped them off at the Dirt Runway (made 400m/s on the way), and returned to the VAB roof. Uses P-Wing, FireSpitter, B9, KAS and Skeppies mini-pack. It should complete all the challenges with just the addition of two half size nuclear rockets for orbit/mun but I'll update progress as it happens :)

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