Reducing audio when duplicate parts are sounding

[Andrew Hansen]

Let's say you have a normal rocket stabilized by four launch stability enhancers. As you press spacebar to launch your rocket, your ears will burst with the combined noise of four stability enhancers decoupling at the same time.

Or suppose you were flying the Rocket Power VTOL for the first time, which uses a total of eight 47-RS engines. Those are some pretty tiny radial engines, but with each of them making engine noises, you really have to lower your headphone's or speaker's audio so that your ears remain intact.

Of course, you could just lower your computer or in-game audio so it wouldn't be as loud, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how the sound volume scales up twice as much if twice as many parts are making the same noise.

My suggestion is that perhaps some code could be added to only increase the audio level by 1.5x (or something like that) instead of 2x when two of the same kinds of parts are making a noise. It might not be as realistic, but realism isn't exactly what KSP is about anyway.

Not a big deal, but just something I noticed when producing a video on my channel. Here I was looking at the audio levels for some game audio recordings, and I couldn't help but notice the huge spike I would get when launching my rockets.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Andrew Hansen

[lajoswinkler]

Rockets are loud. Lots of rockets are very loud. Deal with it.

[austincurr]

Well, I mean, can you perceive as much difference in loudness between 100db and 120db as you can between 20db and 40db? Also, I've never checked, but does the sound fade out linearly or correctly with distance? Still, it should be more complex than 1.5x

[breakthrough]

I've wanted a feature like this in every game I've ever played that had more than two sound channels.

[Andrew Hansen]

Well, I mean, can you perceive as much difference in loudness between 100db and 120db as you can between 20db and 40db? Also, I've never checked, but does the sound fade out linearly or correctly with distance? Still, it should be more complex than 1.5x

No, you can't, because 100 and 120 (5:6) have a different ratio than 20 and 40 (1:2).

Maybe it should be more complex than a linear 1.5x, but I honestly think the game audio is way too loud sometimes, and this would be a simple fix. Perhaps 1.5x is a bit too much.

Yeah, maybe it wouldn't be very realistic to have that multiplier changed, but I don't think realism is the main focus of this game anyways.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Andrew Hansen

[Specialist290]

No, you can't, because 100 and 120 (5:6) have a different ratio than 20 and 40 (1:2).

Minor point of order: The decibel scale is logarithmic. Every increase of 10 decibels represents a tenfold increase in intensity.

That being said, to address the topic itself, I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of upper limit to how loud any given sound could be, and scale the relative intensity of an individual sound compared to the total amount of sound output by the scene as a whole.

[Atoning Unifex]

This game is very loud when compared to most others I play. I usually keep volume levels roughly the same for every other game but this one I have to always have it set to almost zero. There's something about the sound of the rockets that, whilst great for a little while, soon ends up sounding like low frequency static - especially on a long burn - which almost feels like it's giving me a headache.

[lajoswinkler]

This game is very loud when compared to most others I play. I usually keep volume levels roughly the same for every other game but this one I have to always have it set to almost zero. There's something about the sound of the rockets that, whilst great for a little while, soon ends up sounding like low frequency static - especially on a long burn - which almost feels like it's giving me a headache.

This is why I'd like loud launches and realism in vacuum. Muffled, weak sound of engines would be a nice thing. For example, Brownian noise is something that sounds perfect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brown_noise.ogg

Check out other kinds of noises to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colors_of_noise

[Andrew Hansen]

Minor point of order: The decibel scale is logarithmic. Every increase of 10 decibels represents a tenfold increase in intensity.

That being said, to address the topic itself, I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of upper limit to how loud any given sound could be, and scale the relative intensity of an individual sound compared to the total amount of sound output by the scene as a whole.

Yes, I guess I made a slight - or not so slight - mistake on my calculations.

But I like your idea. KSP needs to say that the maximum volume is a certain number of decibels, and scale the intensity of a certain sound to the whole sound generated by the scene.

[Andrew Hansen]

There's something about the sound of the rockets that, whilst great for a little while, soon ends up sounding like low frequency static - especially on a long burn - which almost feels like it's giving me a headache.

That's true, too. I think a sound overhaul would be very much appreciated for KSP. If you've tried KWrocketry, you'll notice their rocket sounds are way more realistic and sound a lot more interesting - and powerful too!

However, for now, small fixes to the audio system should be done rather than a huge overhaul in my opinion.

[Atoning Unifex]

This is why I'd like loud launches and realism in vacuum. Muffled, weak sound of engines would be a nice thing. For example, Brownian noise is something that sounds perfect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brown_noise.ogg

Check out other kinds of noises to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colors_of_noise

Sounds like a pretty reasonable idea. That brown noise sounds like it would work pretty well in vaccuum, quiet enough to not be a pain but still audible to avoid having to listen to silence!

[leax256]

Well, I mean, can you perceive as much difference in loudness between 100db and 120db as you can between 20db and 40db? Also, I've never checked, but does the sound fade out linearly or correctly with distance? Still, it should be more complex than 1.5x

anything over 90db causes damage to your ears, hope game sound isn't near that.

[coolitic]

Technically, in a vacuum, sounds cannot be made (still audible inside of the ship though) and if we had no sounds that would be boring. Still, I agree rocket sounds are too high but you can just reduce the rocket sound option thing.

[leax256]

Technically, in a vacuum, sounds cannot be made (still audible inside of the ship though) and if we had no sounds that would be boring. Still, I agree rocket sounds are too high but you can just reduce the rocket sound option thing.

I have in game volume @ ~20% and windows volume @~5-8%, it sometimes overpowers everything else.

[lajoswinkler]

Yes, I guess I made a slight - or not so slight - mistake on my calculations.

But I like your idea. KSP needs to say that the maximum volume is a certain number of decibels, and scale the intensity of a certain sound to the whole sound generated by the scene.

Why am I not having problems with this? The only thing we need to do in order no to blast our ears at launch is to scroll the mouse wheel a few times to increase distance a bit. It literally takes a whole second.

There's the volume settings, too. It's internal and can tweak several volume sources in the game.

Sounds like a pretty reasonable idea. That brown noise sounds like it would work pretty well in vaccuum, quiet enough to not be a pain but still audible to avoid having to listen to silence!

And it's soothing, too. I like Brownian noise. ("brown noise" is too similar to the infamous sound from South Park that makes you **** your pants )

Technically, in a vacuum, sounds cannot be made (still audible inside of the ship though) and if we had no sounds that would be boring. Still, I agree rocket sounds are too high but you can just reduce the rocket sound option thing.

It could be heard in front of and close to the nozzle, but it would be shockwave noise, not sound as actual waves.

[pizzaoverhead]

Multiple sounds aren't handled well in KSP. Each part having identical sound files means the combined sound intensities are much higher than they would be in reality. It also means that looped sounds like rocket engines can harmonise with each other in a way that sounds like a jet flying past. I've fixed this issue in my own mods by setting the starting seek position within the track to a random location for each part for looping sounds. A small random time offset for when the sound is played would help for non-looping sounds.

[Andrew Hansen]

Multiple sounds aren't handled well in KSP. Each part having identical sound files means the combined sound intensities are much higher than they would be in reality. It also means that looped sounds like rocket engines can harmonise with each other in a way that sounds like a jet flying past. I've fixed this issue in my own mods by setting the starting seek position within the track to a random location for each part for looping sounds. A small random time offset for when the sound is played would help for non-looping sounds.

Aha! So now we have a professional speaking on this topic. That's very interesting that the combined sound of various parts is actually louder than in real life.

And yes, I have noticed what you're talking about - how rocket sounds sort of harmonize with each other. Even though there might be eight engines, in the case of the Rocket Power VTOL, it only sounds like there's one, big, loud engine because the sound instances play at the same time.

[klesh]

I agree with the general premise of this thread. Multiple sounds from multiples of one item get to be way too loud. I had to turn my vessel sounds to 6% in order to be able to stand driving a maritime vessel around with all those air intakes splashing together.

[mattinoz]

Minor point of order: The decibel scale is logarithmic. Every increase of 10 decibels represents a tenfold increase in intensity.

That being said, to address the topic itself, I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of upper limit to how loud any given sound could be, and scale the relative intensity of an individual sound compared to the total amount of sound output by the scene as a whole.

Isn't dB a logarithmic scale because the increase in energy doesn't match the increase in perception of loudness?

So 100dB up to 130db will only seem 30% louder by perception but is 1000times more energy.

If 3dB is a doubling of sound energy. So shouldn't two engines firing be only 3dB higher than just one and only marginally louder in game?

[prophet_01]

Engines can be way too loud. I've set mine to under 10% to avoid those anoying peaks. A maximimum for the loudness would be nice. If I have to chose between not hearing my engines most of the time and a headache, I choose the first one. "Rockets are loud, deal with it" is not helpful btw

[BudgetHedgehog]

I don't care about rockets or whether an engine should be loud in space, it's the blasted launch clamps I can't stand. Put more than say, 4, on a rocket and:

KKKKCCCCCHHHHHHUUUUNNNNGGGGG!!!!

[brusura]

On 26/11/2014 at 1:05 PM, ObsessedWithKSP said:

I don't care about rockets or whether an engine should be loud in space, it's the blasted launch clamps I can't stand. Put more than say, 4, on a rocket and:

KKKKCCCCCHHHHHHUUUUNNNNGGGGG!!!!

I agree with you, but even without launch clamps that horrible sound is stil there even in space when you staging

[Gargamel]

I thought they fixed this around the time this thread was originally posted.

If it's too loud, adjust the volume controls in settings. 

[brusura]

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

I thought they fixed this around the time this thread was originally posted.

If it's too loud, adjust the volume controls in settings. 

And lowering all other sound effects? What bother me is the fact that there is nothing , in game speaking, that should cause that sound effect, it's some kind of legacy stuff I bet

[Kerbinchaser]

On 2/9/2014 at 9:14 PM, lajoswinkler said:

Rockets are loud. Lots of rockets are very loud. Deal with it.