[0.25] Time Control - 9/23/14 v13.2

[Dacsi]

I really feel lost without this mod, today a "thing" kept exploding on launch and I couldn't diagnose why.

[Xaiier]

I really feel lost without this mod, today a "thing" kept exploding on launch and I couldn't diagnose why.

I've been super duper busy with school and that has taken priority over this for awhile. This week I'm free so I should be able to get an update out. I have tried to port it but I kept running into problems accessing stuff with the new system, so I think I am going to have to write it from scratch so I can find where the problems are coming from.

[MysticPing]

Argh im missing this soo much, good luck

Edited April 19, 2014 by MysticPing

[Xaiier]

Argh im missing this soo much, good luck

I've made progress with reorganizing the code and finding the specific problem spots, but I still have to figure out why stuff that worked fine in .23 throws errors in .23.5

[Xaiier]

0.23.5 update finally ready! I should have a bit of time to work on some new features soon, especially the hyper-warp idea, but I have a couple other KSP mod ideas that I might poke with as well.

[Dacsi]

Check the folder order in the zip

[Xaiier]

Check the folder order in the zip

Whoops, thanks. Fixed now.

[Phredward]

Just popping in to say thanks for this mod. I'm just getting started investigating building mods, and was wondering if you could post the project file? I was having trouble building from source and getting the dll to work as a drop in replacement for the one distributed in the release bundle.

[Xaiier]

Just popping in to say thanks for this mod. I'm just getting started investigating building mods, and was wondering if you could post the project file? I was having trouble building from source and getting the dll to work as a drop in replacement for the one distributed in the release bundle.

Glad you like it!

Hmm, well the VS project isn't really in a shareable state right now, its kind of a mess and I've been working on stuff in it (the only version control I do is the source code I post with every release), but I can help you figure out where the problem is.

Steps to build from source:

• Obtain TimeControl.cs & ToolbarWrapper.cs
  
• Make new project and add those into it
  
• Set to .NET 3.5
  
• Include Assembly-CSharp.dll and UnityEngine.dll as references which can be found in KSP/KSP_data/Managed (copy local off)
  
• Note that it references active.png and inactive.png, so make sure those are there in the mod directory (should be fine if you are just doing a drop in of the DLL, it doesn't need them to compile)
  

[Phredward]

Yeah, that's roughly what I'm doing. I got the nav ball enhancement mod to compile and drop in fine, but it came with a project file, so I'm not sure if that helped or not. I'll double check that it's .net 3.5. This is all with mono on a mac, so that makes it a little bit off-script.

[TeeJaye85]

Hmmm, it seems that the MechJeb warp helper module (which is presumably called from other modules when needed) recognizes the changes but refuses to go over 100,000x.

Kerbal Alarm Clock appears to be completely broken, in a couple tests I found nodes to be incorrect, and eventually my ship in high Kerbin orbit crashed into the launch pad and was destroyed. Trying to figure out whats going wrong.

Did you ever figure out what was happening here? I seem to be experiencing the same issue. My ship spontaneously explodes and I get a ton of "[X] crashed into launchpad"s. I like your mod so much that I'm leaning towards dumping KAC (do I understand correctly from your post that this would clear up the issue?)--but I'd love to have them both work! Thanks for a great mod.

[Xaiier]

Did you ever figure out what was happening here? I seem to be experiencing the same issue. My ship spontaneously explodes and I get a ton of "[X] crashed into launchpad"s. I like your mod so much that I'm leaning towards dumping KAC (do I understand correctly from your post that this would clear up the issue?)--but I'd love to have them both work! Thanks for a great mod.

It appears to be related to the Deep Space Cthulhu bug. I talked with the author of KAC and I found that KAC works by abruptly changing the warp speeds, which ~mostly~ works in standard KSP. The problem comes when it does those abrupt changes at the vastly greater magnitudes allowed in TC. We talked about changing KAC to use a smoothed system like KSP does by standard, but I don't think anything came of it.

For now, KAC should still work as long as you reset the warp rates before using it. I'll see if I can contact TriggerAu again and see if he has made any progress.

I've looked into a time jump feature that could be used in a similar situation, and I have technically gotten it to work, but it is massively abusable - you can do things like pass through planets and jump so far ahead you miss a planetary escape and end up coming back in on the other side. Optimally, I would implement the jump feature with the limiter features I have planned, which could also include a rudimentary form of KAC. At the moment I am trying to get the hyper-warp feature done, but I'll see if I can look into this too.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Xaiier

[TeeJaye85]

It appears to be related to the Deep Space Cthulhu bug. I talked with the author of KAC and I found that KAC works by abruptly changing the warp speeds, which ~mostly~ works in standard KSP. The problem comes when it does those abrupt changes at the vastly greater magnitudes allowed in TC. We talked about changing KAC to use a smoothed system like KSP does by standard, but I don't think anything came of it.

For now, KAC should still work as long as you reset the warp rates before using it. I'll see if I can contact TriggerAu again and see if he has made any progress.

I've looked into a time jump feature that could be used in a similar situation, and I have technically gotten it to work, but it is massively abusable - you can do things like pass through planets and jump so far ahead you miss a planetary escape and end up coming back in on the other side. Optimally, I would implement the jump feature with the limiter features I have planned, which could also include a rudimentary form of KAC. At the moment I am trying to get the hyper-warp feature done, but I'll see if I can look into this too.

Wow, thanks for the amazingly quick response. I'll give resetting the warp rates before I touch KAC a try and see how it goes. Thanks a million.

[TeeJaye85]

OK, so looks like Kerbal Alarm Clock wasn't the culprit. Resetting the warp rates didn't work, so I gave uninstalling the KAC a shot, and still getting spontanexplosions.

So I tried it on a fresh install with only Time Control and Toolbar installed and I'm still exploding when I drop out of time warp. So it would appear it's me doing something wrong, since others seem to be running with the mod just fine.

I tried building the simplest ship I could conceive of (in case there was some particular part or noobie building technique that was causing the issue), and still exploded

Forgive my ignorance, but could you elaborate on what you mean by "be extra careful when slowing back down" in your OP...maybe I'm not doing that....

Link below to a shot of my Flight Results in case it helps.

http://www./view/dd41fmffdb9950f/collided_into_launchpad.png

[Xaiier]

OK, so looks like Kerbal Alarm Clock wasn't the culprit. Resetting the warp rates didn't work, so I gave uninstalling the KAC a shot, and still getting spontanexplosions.

So I tried it on a fresh install with only Time Control and Toolbar installed and I'm still exploding when I drop out of time warp. So it would appear it's me doing something wrong, since others seem to be running with the mod just fine.

I tried building the simplest ship I could conceive of (in case there was some particular part or noobie building technique that was causing the issue), and still exploded

Forgive my ignorance, but could you elaborate on what you mean by "be extra careful when slowing back down" in your OP...maybe I'm not doing that....

Link below to a shot of my Flight Results in case it helps.

http://www./view/dd41fmffdb9950f/collided_into_launchpad.png

KSP smoothly changes the warp rate, when you change the rate you'll notice that the actual warp rate shown doesn't instantly change. When your warp rates are higher than standard, and you quickly mash the "<" key or click the first button, KSP tries to smoothly slow down the rate but doesn't reach it in time, and then tries to reactivate physics and for whatever reason, your ship has a good chance to explode. If you set it to the lowest rate and then wait a little for it to get there before going back to normal speed, it should work when you come out of warp.

[TeeJaye85]

KSP smoothly changes the warp rate, when you change the rate you'll notice that the actual warp rate shown doesn't instantly change. When your warp rates are higher than standard, and you quickly mash the "<" key or click the first button, KSP tries to smoothly slow down the rate but doesn't reach it in time, and then tries to reactivate physics and for whatever reason, your ship has a good chance to explode. If you set it to the lowest rate and then wait a little for it to get there before going back to normal speed, it should work when you come out of warp.

Hmmmm....Not having much luck. I've done a bit of testing:

If I increase time warp 1 tier at a time, with a 5 second break after each change (on the way up and then back down), I explode

If I jump all the way to max, and then back to 1 tier above normal speed, and then wait until the onscreen counter has settled at 5x before reducing to 1x, I explode (seemingly regardless of whether I add waits between steps or not)

If I jump all the way to max and then right back to normal speed, I explode except if I've been at the max for over (roughly) 400 Kerbin days [ <------- this one's weird, right?]

Also, if--after the explosion--I load a quicksave that I made before testing the time warp, or revert the flight to launch, I explode immediately upon loading.

At this point, I've had the issue occur in low Kerbin orbit, high Kerbin orbit, high Duna orbit, and on transfer orbit between Kerbin and Duna, but most of my testing has taken place at about 120km over Kerbin.

In case it matters, these are my current warp rates (I've tried a couple of combinations, but the outcomes seem to be consistent with the above in any case where the top tier is higher than the standard vanilla-KSP speed).

1

5

10

100

1000

10000

100000

500000

Why am I so bad at bending space and time?

P.S. Thanks again for your help. I feel ridiculous since nobody else seems to be posting any functionality issues at all!

[Xaiier]

Hmmmm....Not having much luck. I've done a bit of testing:

If I increase time warp 1 tier at a time, with a 5 second break after each change (on the way up and then back down), I explode

If I jump all the way to max, and then back to 1 tier above normal speed, and then wait until the onscreen counter has settled at 5x before reducing to 1x, I explode (seemingly regardless of whether I add waits between steps or not)

If I jump all the way to max and then right back to normal speed, I explode except if I've been at the max for over (roughly) 400 Kerbin days [ <------- this one's weird, right?]

That is odd. For me it only bugs in the very specific situation I described, and even then not always.

Also, if--after the explosion--I load a quicksave that I made before testing the time warp, or revert the flight to launch, I explode immediately upon loading.

Yeah, once it gets triggered it keeps happening every time you try to reset.

At this point, I've had the issue occur in low Kerbin orbit, high Kerbin orbit, high Duna orbit, and on transfer orbit between Kerbin and Duna, but most of my testing has taken place at about 120km over Kerbin.

I don't think location has any effect.

In case it matters, these are my current warp rates (I've tried a couple of combinations, but the outcomes seem to be consistent with the above in any case where the top tier is higher than the standard vanilla-KSP speed).

1

5

10

100

1000

10000

100000

500000

Why am I so bad at bending space and time?

P.S. Thanks again for your help. I feel ridiculous since nobody else seems to be posting any functionality issues at all!

Those are much more conservative numbers than I usually test with, typically I just mash a bunch of 0's onto the highest warp.

I am also very puzzled. Even with the massively larger userbase Curse has given me I haven't gotten any other reports of this kind of behavior.

I'll keep looking into it. Could you maybe post your ksp.log and the output_log.txt in KSP_Data so I can try and see where the bug is coming from?

[TeeJaye85]

I sure can post those files. I haven't the foggiest idea how to read them, so I am fully expecting you to find something absolutely idiotic that I am doing to trigger this problem.

The version I've uploaded is jumping from 1x straight to top speed, waiting a few seconds, jumping back down to 5x, waiting until the counter reads 5x (+ a couple of seconds more for good measure), and then back down to 1x.

Let me know if there are any other iterations I can run to help out. Considering you are the one actually helping out, it seems to be the least I can do...

http://www./view/dfpe8v53tj1uzsz/KSP_-_2014-06-08.log

http://www./view/x15u8pg81vpk7sp/output_log_-_2014-06-08.txt

[Xaiier]

I sure can post those files. I haven't the foggiest idea how to read them, so I am fully expecting you to find something absolutely idiotic that I am doing to trigger this problem.

The version I've uploaded is jumping from 1x straight to top speed, waiting a few seconds, jumping back down to 5x, waiting until the counter reads 5x (+ a couple of seconds more for good measure), and then back down to 1x.

Let me know if there are any other iterations I can run to help out. Considering you are the one actually helping out, it seems to be the least I can do...

http://www./view/dfpe8v53tj1uzsz/KSP_-_2014-06-08.log

http://www./view/x15u8pg81vpk7sp/output_log_-_2014-06-08.txt

Ok, I see in the logs where its happening. Same kinda stuff that I get when it happens.

The collision does report velocity...it might be worthwhile to compare the velocity given with orbital/surface velocity at the moment of explosion to see how it compares.

I have an idea as to what might be happening, but I have no idea why. My theory is that whenever the vessel physics gets loaded into the world, its spawning at the launchpad, before quickly being moved to the right place. Since the craft is moving at such high speed (and perhaps because of the warp somehow), it may be that its hitting something while in that transition. Could you test doing the warps with the orbital motion vector in different directions relative to the KSC launchpad? (such that if you imagined how the vessel is moving at the moment if you teleported it to the pad, its velocity would send it up, down, etc) If theres a relation between the velocity vector relative to the surface and when it explodes, that would prove my theory. If I have time I'll test this as well to see if this is why the explosion isn't consistently triggered when I try it.

Whether this gets results or otherwise, I think it could be helpful to include a feature to make the logs spit out all kinds of info as to the current state of warps and such, so that I can see where there might be a difference somewhere in the internals in different cases. I'll definitely include that in the next release.

[sf17k]

I would love to have warp speeds be powers of some number, like 2 or 3. Then you can predict how much you'll speed up or slow down by without looking at your current warp setting. Unfortunately, the game/mod doesn't support this many speed levels:

2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024... (up to over 100,000)

Take a look at the default settings, and how much faster each step is from the previous:

5: 5x

10: 2x

50: 5x

100: 2x

1000: 10x

10000: 10x

100000: 10x

The speedups are all over the place. The jump from 50 to 100 is a measly 2x increase, but the next one suddenly increases by a factor of 10x, which can easily make you overshoot if you forgot what step you were on. Jarring! This can be greatly smoothed out by merely changing the 5s to 3s:

3: 3x

10: 3.3x

30: 3x

100: 3.3x

1000: 10x

10000: 10x

100000: 10x

And, just to demonstrate the principle, here's a setup I haven't tested yet that increases the factor gradually to make it more controllable:

3: 3x

12: 4x

60: 5x

360: 6x

2500: 7x

20000: 8x

200000: 10x

This is less ideal than having more speeds to choose from, but it's a big improvement over the defaults.

Edited June 22, 2014 by sf17k

[Xaiier]

I would love to have warp speeds be powers of some number, like 2 or 3. Then you can predict how much you'll speed up or slow down by without looking at your current warp setting. Unfortunately, the game/mod doesn't support this many speed levels:

2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024... (up to over 100,000)

Take a look at the default settings, and how much faster each step is from the previous:

...

The speedups are all over the place. The jump from 50 to 100 is a measly 2x increase, but the next one suddenly increases by a factor of 10x, which can easily make you overshoot if you forgot what step you were on. Jarring! This can be greatly smoothed out by merely changing the 5s to 3s:

...

And, just to demonstrate the principle, here's a setup I haven't tested yet that increases the factor gradually to make it more controllable:

...

This is less ideal than having more speeds to choose from, but it's a big improvement over the defaults.

That's a neat idea, and from my initial investigation it should be possible to do such a thing. I'll look into it.

[Andrew Hansen]

<snip>

I like the way that the Maximum Warp plugin does it - each warp increment increases by the speed by a factor of 10:

10: 10x

100: 10x

1,000: 10x

10,000: 10x

100,000: 10x

1,000,000: 10x

10,000,000: 10x

[sf17k]

7/8/14:Sadly very little progress has been made because of life happening

I have discovered something that might help with the explosions coming out of warp! Will continue to work as much as possible.

I recently started having that issue once my missions became interplanetary, and even Kerbal Joint Reinforcement's physics stabilization didn't help. (Or is that feature just not compatible with Time Control?)

I'm excited for the changes, and awaiting them patiently!

[Xaiier]

I recently started having that issue once my missions became interplanetary, and even Kerbal Joint Reinforcement's physics stabilization didn't help. (Or is that feature just not compatible with Time Control?)

I'm excited for the changes, and awaiting them patiently!

I will have to look into how KJR works, and see it the physics easing it does is compatible.

There seems to be two cases where explosions can happen, one when inside the SOI, and one specifically due to a SOI crossing bug.

[Xaiier]

No spoilers here, none at all.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Xaiier