[WIP] [KSP 0.23] Kethane Plus v0.1

[malkuth]

What is it your trying to do? You don't want kethane to be able to make oxidizer?

And only want to make it with water?

[a__gun]

I keep getting roadblock after roadblock!!:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55219-Module-Manager-1-5-6-%28Jan-6%29?p=987074&viewfull=1#post987074

Does anyone have any idea how to use ModuleManager to change one resource to another in the converters config files!!??

First and foremost - the easiest thing would be to make a new part with your changes on it and leave the stock Kethane converters as they are.

If you do insist on using the original pieces, this would be my best guess:

'At any part with a KethaneConverter module, which has InputRates involving Kethane, and OutputRatios involving Oxidizer'

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[KethaneConverter]:HAS[@InputRates[*]:HAS[#Kethane], @OutputRatios[*]:HAS[#Oxidizer]]]
{
   @MODULE[KethaneConverter]
   {
      @InputRates
      {
         Water = 2.75
         ElectricCharge = 6
      }
      @OutputRatios
      {
         Oxidizer = 1.01
      }
}

[Albert VDS]

Great addition to Kethane, it always bothered me that it was like a chemical soup which could be transformed into any resource.

[Boamere]

Waaait a second, I swear you can get liquid fuel (hydrogen) and oxidiser (oxygen) from water, (but at a 1:2 ratio) wouldn't this mean you just need water for fuel? (or am i missing something) XD

[mdapol]

I keep getting roadblock after roadblock!!:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55219-Module-Manager-1-5-6-%28Jan-6%29?p=987074&viewfull=1#post987074

Does anyone have any idea how to use ModuleManager to change one resource to another in the converters config files!!??

There's already a mod that makes KSPI water and TAC water into the same resource. I forget the name of it though. And KSPI already has a refinery that can convert water into liquid fuel and oxidizer.

Edit: It's KESA.

Edited February 24, 2014 by mdapol

[psyper]

This section of the API documentation should help. In the KethaneDetector module, there's a Resource{} node; just copy that (not the whole KethaneDetector) so there are two Resource{} nodes, each with its own resource name.

Many thanks for this - that would solve a few things. I've even managed to get MM to play nice with this - just gotta test it now

First and foremost - the easiest thing would be to make a new part with your changes on it and leave the stock Kethane converters as they are.

Well if its easier to learn Blender, learn how to 3d model and download all the various textures and try my best at using them (you should see my water tanks!) than to work out how to get ModuleManager to play nice with Kethane then I'm in big trouble!! *help* I was hoping that MM would help with this as I'm thinking of producing a few of these changes for different mod hooks in to Kethane and wanted it so that you could just add another MM file to your version of the game and get these additional features - I didn't want to have to create a new file for each and every combination.

With some hours worth of playing I think I just about managed to work it. The problem was that there are several KethaneConverter modules in each file and MM wasn't able to work out which one was which - I tried EVERYTHING! In the end I opted to refer to each one in turn as a dummy to ignore (the 2nd one was the one I wanted to change) so we have in the end:

@PART[kethane_2m_converter]:HAS[@MODULE[KethaneConverter]:HAS[@InputRates[*]:HAS[#Kethane], @OutputRatios[*]:HAS[#Oxidizer]]]
{
   @MODULE[KethaneConverter]
   {
   }
   @MODULE[KethaneConverter]
   {
	@InputRates
		{
			@Kethane = 0
			Water = 8.25
		}
   }
}

This kinda worked but the main problem was removing Kethane from it - no matter how I did it !Kethane !#Kethane !Kethane(*) it wasn't playing ball. Not sure if this will effect the converter as it seems to work okay when I had no kethane tanks onboard but the kethane entry is annoying me a bit!

What is it your trying to do? You don't want kethane to be able to make oxidizer?

And only want to make it with water?

Basically yep

Waaait a second, I swear you can get liquid fuel (hydrogen) and oxidiser (oxygen) from water, (but at a 1:2 ratio) wouldn't this mean you just need water for fuel? (or am i missing something) XD

Nope you're not missing anything and you're right - they used that combination on the space-shuttle (RIP) also if you think about it monoprop is also Hydrogen Peroxide which could probably be converted from splitting and recombining Water in to H2 O2 to H2O2 so you could really say that Kethane is just normal tap water. But what I wanted to do mainly was to split the job up so that you had to go mining for two components in order to get a fuel tank full of fuel - I felt it was tooo easy to land a craft on the ground - mine some kethane and fill up all the tanks!

I've even managed to get it so that Laythe, Kerbin and Eeloo is covered pretty much 100% in water because lets face it - if you drill down enough and bake it anywhere will extract from the soil. (esp laythe). I've got a few more tests to do and have a few ideas on how to make this so that it can be plugged in to other mods or even to create your own resource. My next project for Kethane Plus is to create Iron so you can 'sell' it back at Kerbin.

[psyper]

There's already a mod that makes KSPI water and TAC water into the same resource. I forget the name of it though. And KSPI already has a refinery that can convert water into liquid fuel and oxidizer.

Edit: It's KESA.

Theres also ORS http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64595-Open-Resource-System-%28ORS%29-Mod-Resource-API-version-1-1-0

[Horus]

Nice enthusiasm & always cheers to people making this game more interesting.

But, seriously, it's being already a nuisance - everyone's creating his (her) own resources. If the trend continues we'll have a ksp universe full of ©®™-ed molecules - "Oxygene-by-John-Doe", "Hydrogene-by-Jane-Doe".

For this Kethane package addition (it's not a mod, seriously) it would be enough to make just configurations patches. That's it. Why bother with "super unique" models? As it was already mentioned here - when a player already has a sat scanners network he (she) does not want to scrap it and re-build anew only because of a new water scanner. I'd say "to Hell that", for, it takes: 1. create new scanning satellites 2. put them to operation 3. wait scanning complete (as kethane has background scanning issues). And all these just for a proper production?! Hell, no.

[a__gun]

Well if its easier to learn Blender, learn how to 3d model and download all the various textures and try my best at using them (you should see my water tanks!)...

You don't have to do that - use stock parts for now (or welded ones). If your mod goes well someone will make parts for you. Theres already a fair few free-to-use models out there

[psyper]

Nice enthusiasm & always cheers to people making this game more interesting.

But, seriously, it's being already a nuisance - everyone's creating his (her) own resources. If the trend continues we'll have a ksp universe full of ©®™-ed molecules - "Oxygene-by-John-Doe", "Hydrogene-by-Jane-Doe".

For this Kethane package addition (it's not a mod, seriously) it would be enough to make just configurations patches. That's it. Why bother with "super unique" models? As it was already mentioned here - when a player already has a sat scanners network he (she) does not want to scrap it and re-build anew only because of a new water scanner. I'd say "to Hell that", for, it takes: 1. create new scanning satellites 2. put them to operation 3. wait scanning complete (as kethane has background scanning issues). And all these just for a proper production?! Hell, no.

Could say the same about craft parts really - the amount of different parts there are out there each with their modders own style attached to them and that is what makes ksp fantastic - the ability to create your own style and share it with others. Theres no limit to how many mods we can produce so why not? I just posted this as an add on to Kethane - from the start I didn't say it was a mod just an add on to it. Quite a few people are interested in it which is great - those that don't just skip the thread and move on. But its okay Horus its all okay.

I'm planning on using this to 'plug in' to other mods such as TAC Life Support so that users who don't have the module know-how can just download these and they get a kethane drill that also produces and converts whatever resource they would like!! Also I'm bringing out two versions of the add-on for satellites - one with additional "super unique" sats & one with the resources incorporated to already existing ones. I originally had the thought that you would have a kethane sat but then need something to scan for iron or water - the kethane sat wasn't designed for it - the frequency in the hardware was out of range to detect these compounds/elements so a new sat would have to be launched - we do this all the time in RL - send a sat on a flyby pass some moons realise there could be water on them from the view so send another one that detects water or liquid methane etc. if thats too hard for you or you just don't have time for that then the easier method is available to use, hell yes!

You don't have to do that - use stock parts for now (or welded ones). If your mod goes well someone will make parts for you. Theres already a fair few free-to-use models out there

Using badly textured stock parts for now. Do you know where theres some free-to-use tanks out there? I tried looking for any but can only find the hex ones and the ones they now use for TAC and I don't think they are suitable for my needs.

[a__gun]

Near future propulsion is sharealike and has some awesome tanks. Just go looking at mods' licences

[psyper]

I've updated the add on(s) to now use ModuleManager to make the changes needed to work with the Kethane mod. Hopefully this now complies with the licence and we can get down to having fun with this

[Majiir]

Hi psyper,

Your download looks good as far as licensing is concerned. Just one note: You've placed a config file in GameData/Kethane/Resources, which is unnecessary. Kethane looks everywhere in GameData for matching files. You can put that file in GameData/Psyper and then everything will be nicely self-contained.

The rule of thumb of good mod packaging is to only ever touch files in your own directory. If another mod makes it necessary to modify their files, ask them to change their API so that's not necessary.

Cheers,

Majiir

[psyper]

Thanks Majiir. Changed it

Is there any way then for Kethane to not load other resources. So if i created a resource that can only be converted to by the converters but can't be scanned or mined how do I do that without the hex scanner controls picking it up?

Also, if its not too much trouble could you check the resource file for Water and see if that is the best way to cover kerbin etc in 100% water or if theres an easier way. I made it one huge resource pocket but ideally I would like it to be loads of pockets but cover 100% of the map?

[curiousepic]

I would love to see this allowing a more realistic ISRU situation for RSS, focusing on water (and maybe iron), and removing or changing Kethane to something else. Has anyone done this?

[sidfu]

I would love to see this allowing a more realistic ISRU situation for RSS, focusing on water (and maybe iron), and removing or changing Kethane to something else. Has anyone done this?

thats what this mod is starting to do. u have to have water to make oxidiser kethan dont make oxy.

thouse that use tac with this might want to change the water mass its .002 but should be more of a fraction than that. only problem it cause is water use will be off for tac but only for long water use.

[psyper]

thats what this mod is starting to do. u have to have water to make oxidiser kethan dont make oxy.

thouse that use tac with this might want to change the water mass its .002 but should be more of a fraction than that. only problem it cause is water use will be off for tac but only for long water use.

Yeah I just copied the same values for kethane for water - I figured liquid kethane would be the same density as liquid water and with Mercury Edition of my add-on I wanted you to be able to have a mixture of different tanks on your miner craft without having to worry about the centre of mass being off.

I really would like to have this tied in to TAC Lifesupport but I haven't had a chance to add that to my game yet and play around with it. Ideally what I would like to do is have a complete mix of different resources that you can use different kethane miners and converters for. The API for kethane is really opened up so you could have different converters (you don't have to have the same model as the kethane converters) which will then convert one product in to another - so you could have a hydroponic model which uses the kethane api to convert co2 & water in to 02 & food. I believe that TAC is a completely closed system? so you can have several different components on your base which will recycle everything - what I would like to do is to have this not 100% so you wont get a 1:1 ratio of input from output and then have to replenish water, kethane, food with outside resources using the kethane mod.

Something like this would be fun to have if a bit ambitious for me as I'm not a good modeller at all and would need one to help me out:

I think I need to go hunting for parts to get permission to use and adapt. but I'm still working on getting decent tanks for the resources such as water at the moment: forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/71204-Psyper-Multipurpose-Tanks-Co

[psyper]

Thank You Mario, But Our Princess is in Another Castle!

As this version contained parts from another mod and was deemed illegal via the licence I have created a new thread for Version 0.2+ which is Here and uses Modulemanager which is totally legal and safe to use

[FreeThinker]

I wondered how we can turn water into Oxidiser. Hydrogen Peroxide is an Oxidiser and it can be created from H2O using Ultraviolet light. So basicly, using unfiltered (space) light, you should be able to convert H2O (Water) in H2O2 (Oxidiser). What we need is a part which could use light, like solar panen die directly convert water into H2O2

Edited November 10, 2014 by FreeThinker