Amateurism, yet another silly example.

[fastbikkel]

So i was lifting off a small munar lander, an unmanned type. This was done to prepare for a manned munar landing, I needed to get a “feel†for a landing, so I had built a small lander.

I constructed it with a dockingnode on top, I had flipped it upside down and put it on top of a rocket using another docking node.

So off i went, up into the kerbin sky. Launch was uneventful, got into orbit fine and set course for the mun.

Upon arriving, i settled into a 28/32km orbit.

Everything clear for decoupling of the lander. Decouple!

*imagine me whistling, i felt comfy and relaxed.

I was now a solid 50m from the orbital vehicle when I noticed the engine would not come on. I needed to retrograde for landing, so why would the engine not come on??

I have learned the hard way to take it easy in analyzing the little details in KSP, make no quick judgements.

Noticed eventually that the lander was out of fuel. (crossfeed is wonderful when you don’t need it).

Now i realised i should have made a checklist, here is the amateur part I was talking about.

Obviously during the later part of the takeoff, my orbital vehicle had been drinking fuel from the top, the lander.

SO by the time I arrived in munar orbit, it was completely empty.

I need to make sure I disable crossfeed before take off, sigh.

I desperately tried to use the orbital vehicle to redock with the lander, but having no RCS thrusters/monopropellant, it was a futile action.

So now i have a munar lander in munar orbit, without fuel, waiting for rescue.

I have a new challenge at hand now, to launch another rocket and get it to dock with the lander in the hopes of supplying it with a load of fuel so I can still go ahead with the landing.

Could work out, but i need to rethink my checklist.

Any suggestions?

[Col_Jessep]

Don't forget to disable fuel crossfeed every time you switch to another ship or go back to KSC, too. IIRC KSP doesn't keep it disabled.

[Kasuha]

I don't see any amateurism here, everyone makes mistakes. Important thing is if you learn from the experience.

If you can rendezvous, all you need is to put some RCS thrusters on the ship you sent last time and send it again, make them dock and transfer fuel.

If you didn't rendezvous yet, it's a good opportunity to learn it.

You may also consider putting something non-fuel-crossfeedable between the two docking ports. Structural plate or a decoupler might suffice. You can undock and drop it during descent if you don't like orbital debris.

[StrandedonEarth]

An alternative to disbabling crossfeed is to rt-click on the tank and turn it off (green arrows). It'll stay turned off, unlike disabling crossfeed.

[fastbikkel]

Great tips guys! Thanks.

I just wanted to spill my story here. :-)

The amateurism comes from the fact i do not use checklists, of course no pay for me, but the fact i do everything from the "mind" ensures mistakes. LOL

I love KSP!

[AmpsterMan]

My tip for your rescue mossion is to make sure you run down your checklist XD.

I have found way to many missions of mine messed up because of some amateur mistake. I actually play with a yellow notepad on hand at all times to help me take notes and such.

[Xavven]

Also remember to turn off your lander's engine when you re-dock to the command module if you're doing multiple landing missions. If you forget, then you'll have your lander engine opposing your main thrusters and waste fuel. I didn't learn that the hard way or anything...

[Retread]

An alternative to disabling the fuel crossfeed is checking the lander fuel levels once you're ready to undock, and topping up (or filling, in this case) from your main tanks.

[Kasuha]

It's likely out of question now but if you realize you undocked with no fuel and RCS, you can immediately quicksave and quickload, they will dock again if they're in range. Or you can wait till the ships get far enough and send a Kerbal on EVA to push them together again.

Edit: oh... assuming you have a manned ship, of course. Which was not this case.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Kasuha

[LethalDose]

I'd second Kashua's response to put something without crossfeed in the stack to prevent this. I never launch anything with docking ports already engaged (not for this reason, but hey, it's a nice bonus). I'd put

At launch or before launch, you can also lock-down the fuel in the tank by right-clicking on the tank and clicking the green triangle -> red "no" symbol.

[Justin Kerbice]

Remind me something , I sent an energy module for my space-station, to recover my out-of-energy core (a Hubmax full of docking ports and a few things), but it ran out of fuel before reaching it, so I have to launch a recovery mission for the recovery mission. Fortunately, this one was more carefully prepared and executed (I have tied the former mission leader to a rocket before launching it in a faraway trajectory).

[Javster]

My problem is that I always build a thing without solar panels, then I get stuck, then I make the same mistake with my next ship...

[Kerba Fett]

Put a probe core on an RCS tank and some thrusters, a few batteries, and some solar panels. Then deliver it into Munar orbit.

Your mini tug docks with the lander and tows it back to its transfer stage to refuel. Once refueled the lander undocks and leaves the mini tug still attached to the transfer stage for next time.

[Unit327]

You said both ships had docking ports, so just redock and transfer the fuel. Or does the one with fuel left not have the pod, electricity and rcs required for manourvering?

Also quicksave is your best friend.

[SkyRender]

There's a reason why they tend to double- and triple-check everything before performing any maneuvers in real life. Mistakes like accidental fuel crossfeed leaving a lander useless aren't even that far off from the sort of issues that have come up in actual missions. Hell, some of the things that come up in real missions make our KSP woes seem quaint. Kerbals are never at risk for drowning in their own spacesuits from issues with the suit's cooling system, for example.

[thomasjkenney]

Things I've learned after similar mishaps:

1) ALWAYS put RCS on a dockable command module.

2) ALWAYS check to make sure there is fuel in the lander tank (did exactly as you did, but had RCS so I managed to re-dock and transfer fuel...WHEW!)

3) Mount your lander right-side-up and put a decoupler between the lander's central (only?) engine and the docking port on the main craft. This will prevent fuel crossflow, since the lander is now a stage. To separate, 'undock' the docking port, then decouple the decoupler. Just remember that after you dock on the return, you're now facing backwards!

My worst that-was-really-stupid-WTF-was-I-thinking moment was at the end of a fly-by to Dres. I spent lots of time assembling my craft in orbit, did the whole trip, got a bunch of science in orbit around Dres, got all the way back to Kerbin without running out of fuel. Did my landing burn, and just before the re-entry flames I noticed that I didn't have a decoupler between my command module and my 'tug' module (4 LVNs and a RockMax tank)!!! Tried to 'burn-assist' my descent, but the craft went berzerk. Deployed my chutes early to try to drag off some V, which helped a little. When the chutes finally opened...WHACK! The engines and fuel tank snapped off, and left my command module and Science Jr module perfectly intact. Jeb had reason to smile after that one!!!

[Merinsan]

When the chutes finally opened...WHACK! The engines and fuel tank snapped off, and left my command module and Science Jr module perfectly intact. Jeb had reason to smile after that one!!!

I've actually intentionally built ships to do that before, although it can be risky.

I find myself often adding RCS to my ships and then forgetting to put the actual RCS thrusters on! When I get to the point where I need to dock I have 750 monoprop and I can't translate...takes a minute to realize why!

As for the fuel draining, I always put decouplers between stages, so I never get this problem. One thing I always want to use is the stack separators - they look so sleek, but I never do because they are heavier than decouplers!

[Mic_n]

Depending on how 'lightweight' you're needing to be, it can be handy to have a small emergency fuel supply that's outside of any normal fuel crossfeed - isolated from any engines or fuel supply. If you get into trouble, you can then use ctrl-right click to manually transfer fuel from it to an empty tank and hopefully get back out of it.

[fastbikkel]

Thanks all guys, great hints again.

I did manage to bring a new ship in munar orbit and i "coupled" with the lander again. Now it has fuel. I will try and land the little bugger tonight. I was pleasantly surprised i was able to almost visually couple with the lander, i get better at that rendesvouz'ing every day.

Quick save/launch? Never heard of that lol. Thanks, i will try and remember that.

[bonyetty]

One thing I do since the last update is to place 3 or 4 Place-Anywhere 7 Linear RCS Ports on the base of all my comand pods (one and three Kerbal pods) and turn off the monopropellant on the comand pod when still in the VAB. It is always handy to have a bit of extra delta V stashed away to get the green guys home. There is my handy hint for when you send the green guys on their first Mun walk.

Good luck it is such a buzz, that first successful Kerbal landing. It was one of the most satisfactory feelings I've gotten from a game.

Felipe and SQUAD rock!

[Arsonik]

Been there done that LOL

[FanaticalFighter]

Oh, that's not amateurism, that's average KSP disasters. Tbh, it is these kinds of disasters that make the game so much fun for me.

[DrD]

So last night I finally made and (upright) mun landing with enough fuel to get home I think. Planted my flag, got my soil, boarded craft.

I'm used to pressing space bar to take off, so that's what I did, and watched with horror as my capsule nicely separated from my lander and tumbled off onto the munar surface. Another Kerbal stranded.

[Felsmak]

I'm used to pressing space bar to take off, so that's what I did, and watched with horror as my capsule nicely separated from my lander and tumbled off onto the munar surface. Another Kerbal stranded.

I just had a flashback. Poor, poor Kerbal.

[fastbikkel]

:-) I am determined to prevent that from happening, hence my lenghty space program.

Yesterday finally brought the unmanned lander down, came down very soft, but pressed "full throttle" instead of "close throttle" in all the excitement.

So up it went, then over, then bang!

I will have to try that again. I was so damn proud i made a beautiful descent, only to mess up LOL