Community Mod Repository and The Majiir Challenge

[RadGH]

(heavily riffing off of RadGH's post)

All good, you've got my permission to manage your own copy. That list was compiled from other posts in this thread to begin with. So it's not OC anyway. I do think managing a list of requested features is beneficial to this project.

Looks like you updated the layout since this morning. Can you make the font a bit easier to read? The bright color (#777) in combination with such a thin font weight (300) strains my eyes. It would be great to darken the color, or bump up the font weight. Might look different for you based on your browser & OS, so it may not be so bad for you.

Maybe a screenshot will help (or maybe it's a constast issue with my monitor, idk lol):

http://radleygh.com/images/chrome_2014-128-12-08-58-57.png

[medavox]

you've got my permission to manage your own copy.

Can you make the font a bit easier to read?

Wow, you're right, that IS hard to read (it's not as bad on mine, and I use a silly browser anyway), I'll change the theme. And thanks for the permission!

It looks a bit incompleteâ€â€it would be great to mention the other works in progress, no matter how minor

[...]

Some of the feature descriptions are a bit specific; by that I mean there's room for discussion on some of them, and the document presents exactly one view

Sorry about that - I wrote it in a bit of a rush. I'll fill it out with more information now. I welcome all collaboration, so I'll give Zeroignite access.

It's very simple at the moment, just a GitHub Pages site, using their automatic generator to create the HTML. I just write markdown.

HTML isn't hard, but I'm not a designer so don't have any pre-made stylesheets lying around that I'm happy with, so to avoid fuss, this was easiest to start with.

Next stage up will probably be using the repository wiki feature in GitHub, but only when I work out how not to bury that inside a repo page (I want it easily accessible).

[betta21]

I'd like to point out the Mod Nexus as a very stable distribution method. I personally use the Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, Witcher, (...etc, you get the point) nexus sites for keeping all my mods organized.

http://www.nexusmods.com/kerbalspaceprogram/

Edited May 13, 2014 by sal_vager

[rdwulfe]

I just want to say, thank you, Majiir and others who have put forth the effort and time to provide a better alternative to Curse. I'm sorry, Squead, but I used Curse when I played Wow, and I used it for a few other MMOs. Their client went down, it crashed, and it corrupted my installation in a few cases. I do not feel Curse has the best interest of its downloaders at heart, it's more interested in ad revenue than in providing a good experience. In the past, their site went down several times at critical times (new release of Wow, needing to update your Mods? Oops, Curse is down!)

As an aside, I'd also like to thank the modding community. I'm good with KSP. I can go from planet to planet, etc... but adding KSPI, MechJeb, Kethane, KAS, and a few other things makes this game... complete. Not to mention things like automatic texture compression, which actually makes the game _PLAYABLE_ for me. Thank you all.

I look forward to whatever solution the Modding community comes up with. I'm certain it'll be stellar! Squad, these guys are pretty bright, and they want the game to succeed, for Squad to succeed! We love our little green Kerbies (as my SO calls them), and we get a lot of satisfaction from KSP. Keep up the good work.

Wulfe

[Rappelle]

I have begun working on this project!

I will be implementing core features such as upload, moderation, versioning and tagging.

Once we have a complete central repository of ideas - soon, I hope! - I will start implementing those features in order of priority too!

Once I have the core features complete, I'll put it on a server so that development can be followed more closely

[MaHuJa]

One thing i would put down as a requirement is amenability to auto-installation and updating.

That's the SINGLE thing I see getting better with the curse deal.

It's possible [the curse deal] could lead to some form of functional automatic mod downloader/updater. Give it a list of mods, e.g. off of a forum post, let it work for a few minutes, and you're playing with the same modset. This kind of convenience in using mods is one of the things I've most sorely missed, spending hours instead of minutes on getting my modsets installed, working, and synchronized.

That said, nexus could provide this. Maybe majiir's challenge will end up with something that can do this.

Edited May 9, 2014 by MaHuJa

[medavox]

Once we have a complete central repository of ideas - soon, I hope! - I will start implementing those features in order of priority too!

Once I have the core features complete, I'll put it on a server so that development can be followed more closely

That's great! what are you planning to write it in?

With regards ideas, I don't know if you saw earlier in the thread but TrueBorn compiled a starting list of features (in 3 stages, starting with important stuff first) here https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=131B3D0DB2B5645E!13895&ithint=file%2c.docx

I've also begun putting useful information on my GitHub Pages site here (I think I actually used the phrase 'central repository of information' ) here http://medavox.github.io . I've just given ZeroIgnite access to it as well, so it should begin to fill out, between us (and anyone else interested in assisting with design documentation).

[stupid_chris]

The problem I'm seeing all around here is that everyone starts projects on their own instead of collaborating.

That's sad.

[blizzy78]

The problem I'm seeing all around here is that everyone starts projects on their own instead of collaborating.

That's not a real problem yet at this stage. It's quite often a good idea to lay out a foundation for a new project, then gradually bring new people in on the same project, rather than start with more than one person.

My expectation would be that some of the projects mentioned in this thread will collapse, for the advancement of others. I would hope that nobody here is too concerned about that when the time comes for their project

[Katalliaan]

That's not a real problem yet at this stage. It's quite often a good idea to lay out a foundation for a new project, then gradually bring new people in on the same project, rather than start with more than one person.

Maybe, but it still means that (at the start, at least) people will be conflicted as to who to support. Do I support Majiir's attempt, inigma's, Rappelle's, etc? It also defeats the point of having a central community mod repository.

[blizzy78]

Maybe, but it still means that (at the start, at least) people will be conflicted as to who to support.

I think that after a bit of separate development, this whole thread should transition into a "pitching" phase, where current developers may "advertise" their project, including design, language used, and so on. That would be the phase where development would eventually concentrate on a few - if not only one - candidate. All other candidates would be dismissed eventually.

It also defeats the point of having a central community mod repository.

No. The general direction is unaffected, that is, to create a central repository. But you can get there in at least two ways: 1) Have a big meeting, start drawing charts, and then get multiple people to start on the one project. 2) Start multiple projects at the same time, then decide which of these has a future.

[medavox]

I think that after a bit of separate development, this whole thread should transition into a "pitching" phase, where current developers may "advertise" their project, including design, language used, and so on. That would be the phase where development would eventually concentrate on a few - if not only one - candidate. All other candidates would be dismissed eventually.

I'm not sure that we have enough skilled developers to spread ourselves so thinly. We have a fair amount of interest at the moment, but I would argue no-one has the time, experience and knowledge necessary to build this properly on their own. I hope I'm wrong about that, but at the moment it feels like we have lots of specific ideas for features, and few people with the resources to pull it off.

People who are dismissed may also feel a little dissapointed (or even jilted) that their project didn't take off, and then abandon helping the larger group effort. "Losing" the pitch usually doesn't motivate someone to work on their rival's design.

I appreciate that competition breeds excellence, and that it can be hard to collaborate at such early stages, but I think the sooner a joint effort becomes visible to casual visitors to this project, the sooner we can start accepting more help (and thereby accelerating progress).

BTW, Majiir, what will happen with the server and backend stuff? will you install and manage the OS and technologies (I'm presuming Debian or similar, with node.js and MongoDB installed through the package manager)? I assume so. What about things like (S)FTP access? or just generally, access for site developers?

Edited May 9, 2014 by medavox
fixed bad wording

[O-Doc]

The problem I'm seeing all around here is that everyone starts projects on their own instead of collaborating.

That's sad.

Well, I've put my resources out into the community for everyone to use as they see fit. I've seen no evidence that anyone has examined them by he lack of acknowledgement. I'm used to working on my own and carrying large projects so, this is not really a massive undertaking. It's Saturday here, I expect to have a functioning application up by next weekend. If no-one sees it fit for use then, they can always take away code from it.

In the mean time, I'm not seeing the wider community making a contribution. There's plenty of non-programming stuff to do. I'm used to this sentiment though. Programmers are the guys that do stuff while everyone else stands around breathing through their mouths.

[blizzy78]

I'm not sure that we have enough skilled developers to spread ourselves so thinly. We have a fair amount of interest at the moment, but I would argue no-one has the time, experience and knowledge necessary to build this properly on their own.

I think you got me wrong on that. I was talking about specific implementations getting dismissed (by concensus vote or whatever), not people. Of course those other people would then be invited (and I really hope willing) to join the chosen candidate project, because in the end, there can only be one project.

People who are dismissed may also feel a little dissapointed (or even jilted) that their project didn't take off, and then abandon helping the larger group effort. "Losing" the pitch usually doesn't motivate someone to work on their rival's design.

Everyone participating with their own project in this thread absolutely has to be aware of the fact that their project might end up being dismissed in the end. At least that's what I think, of course I'm not making any rules.

[Superfluous J]

In the mean time, I'm not seeing the wider community making a contribution. There's plenty of non-programming stuff to do. I'm used to this sentiment though. Programmers are the guys that do stuff while everyone else stands around breathing through their mouths.

Insulting the people whose help you require is likely not going to rally people to your cause.

[O-Doc]

Insulting the people whose help you require is likely not going to rally people to your cause.

My apologies. I'm an angry programmer and currently, I'm programming.

[medavox]

Programmers are the guys that do stuff while everyone else stands around breathing through their mouths.

Programmers with free time* Busy programmers do more yawning, and sighing at deadlines.

Seriously though, I'm sorry I've not made more references to what you've done. Keeping track of everyone's contributions is hard on a forum thread (which is the whole reason i started the info page at http://medavox.github.io/ - which i will continue to advertise every time i post ). If you want to remind me of your work so I can put it on the page, that'd help me out.

[O-Doc]

Programmers with free time:) Busy programmers do more yawning, and sighing at deadlines.

Or in my case, you keep returning to intensive care with angry doctors demanding you don't work so hard.

Seriously though, I'm sorry I've not made more references to what you've done. Keeping track of everyone's contributions is hard on a forum thread (which is the whole reason i started the info page at http://medavox.github.io/ - which i will continue to advertise every time i post ). If you want to remind me of your work so I can put it on the page, that'd help me out.

You can grab all the docs for my effort in the docs section of the thread I started

I hope that gives you ideas, inspiration, solutions, etc. These docs are getting updated at each stage of the project cycle. Which is the reason why I decided to manage on a forum thread. This way everyone gets access to what I'm doing as I'm doing it.

I'm well into the implementation at this point.

EDIT: So, if I've been short with anyone here. That's just the way I engage when I have code on my mind. Don't be taking offense, I don't mean any.

[krainboltgreene]

Hi everyone.

I've been watching since someone cross-posted my r/kerbalspaceprogram post. kss.io is up right now and functioning with feature parity to SpacePort and a bit more.

If anyone is having issues let me know, I don't have any exception reporting turned on or anything. My ability to contribute is very minimal since I don't have high hopes for any replacement sites. I had only extremely minimal luck getting any modders to think about using an alternative to SpacePort because it wasn't beneficial to them. Likely I'll see the same with the Curse SpacePort.

That said KSS.io is open source, running, and currently incredibly cheap to host so I have no plans of trashing the server. I'd rather not let the project rot, so if anyone wants to take the already working and running service feel free to.

[Tiberion]

Hi everyone.

I've been watching since someone cross-posted my r/kerbalspaceprogram post. kss.io is up right now and functioning with feature parity to SpacePort and a bit more.

If anyone is having issues let me know, I don't have any exception reporting turned on or anything. My ability to contribute is very minimal since I don't have high hopes for any replacement sites. I had only extremely minimal luck getting any modders to think about using an alternative to SpacePort because it wasn't beneficial to them. Likely I'll see the same with the Curse SpacePort.

That said KSS.io is open source, running, and currently incredibly cheap to host so I have no plans of trashing the server. I'd rather not let the project rot, so if anyone wants to take the already working and running service feel free to.

There's a big difference in mod makers not jumping in on a site thats virtually unknown, ran by someone we're not familair with - and them embracing a site that comes out of a large collaboration with known entities involved.

We've had independent mod repositories before, some of them were pretty decent and some were not. But they all 'flaked' in the end when the creator got bored or couldn't afford it anymore, which is why its important that whatever comes out of this not be reliant on one person.

Your site looks good, though there are some design changes I would desire if I were a regular user. I can't speak to the technical aspects of it, but I am sure someone can.

But what plans do you have in place to scale the site if it becomes 'a thing' as far as a moderation/admin team, and people to actually create all of those documents that are currently filled with delicious meats?

If others think the site is worth going forward with I'll absolutely take it and work towards getting it ready for primetime (though I will need a partner who can manage the code itself)

[O-Doc]

Hi Krain,

For what it's worth I'll give you my advice for what I would do. Take some screenshot of the website, particularly the back-end where users can upload files and admin the content. Then, approach Rowsdowner with it. He's promised to spotlight any community made Spaceport replacements. Also, I would start a thread here to gauge interest and feedback for your website going forward. To get traction you have to be prepared to do little promotion and the community needs some assurance that it has the technical backing to grow with their needs.

Are you interested in pursuing this website? Or, do you just want to hand it off and move on? If it's the later then you will have to find evangelists here to take up your project.

[Rappelle]

Hi everyone.

I've been watching since someone cross-posted my r/kerbalspaceprogram post. kss.io is up right now and functioning with feature parity to SpacePort and a bit more.

If anyone is having issues let me know, I don't have any exception reporting turned on or anything. My ability to contribute is very minimal since I don't have high hopes for any replacement sites. I had only extremely minimal luck getting any modders to think about using an alternative to SpacePort because it wasn't beneficial to them. Likely I'll see the same with the Curse SpacePort.

That said KSS.io is open source, running, and currently incredibly cheap to host so I have no plans of trashing the server. I'd rather not let the project rot, so if anyone wants to take the already working and running service feel free to.

As a working RoR developer, one thing that concerns me about this project is the lack of testing. From having a quick browse through, I can't see any specs at all, which is something I don't believe is suitable for a website that could drive thousands of visits a day.

[RadGH]

Hey folks, I've collected my previous ideas into a public google doc. It includes several levels of features: Must-have, Useful, Wishful and Do not implement. It includes feature requests from throughout this thread, as well as some other documents (see Other Resources), and many of my own ideas.

Feel free to use this at your disposal for your own projects or whatever. No permission required. If anything is confusing or you want to suggest an update, drop a comment on the doc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qvzyA1vLMmfBkxFihQJpl_XPMgoQaLjaF05O-8z4wBY/edit?usp=sharing

This is not designed to be "the correct way" to build this website. This is the guideline I am going to use for my own attempt at the project. I am not 100% committed to my own project at this point, but I figure some effort should be made for the community while I'm at it.

Edited May 10, 2014 by RadGH

[Majiir]

Multiple concurrent projects seem like a great thing to me. If joining an existing project were really the path of least resistance, we wouldn't be seeing multiple projects come up. There are good reasons to diverge, as blizzy78 and others have already mentioned.

BTW, Majiir, what will happen with the server and backend stuff? will you install and manage the OS and technologies (I'm presuming Debian or similar, with node.js and MongoDB installed through the package manager)? I assume so. What about things like (S)FTP access? or just generally, access for site developers?

Yes, I'll be doing setup. There shouldn't be any need for direct interaction with the server except for upgrades, which I'll want to perform or supervise anyway. Generally speaking, I'll want to minimize server access, but we can play that by ear.

Take some screenshot of the website, particularly the back-end where users can upload files and admin the content. Then, approach Rowsdowner with it. He's promised to spotlight any community made Spaceport replacements.

Screenshots are only a small part of the equation. Is it secure? Does it meet the feature requirements of the community as discussed in this thread? Can it handle high load? Does it have a server with sufficient bandwidth? And perhaps the most important: Will modders use it? Will players use it?

Going to Rowsdower with every half-baked site is a quick way to get him to completely ignore us. Make a site that's supported by the important stakeholders and runs successfully for a week or two, and then we can think about getting a Squad endorsement.

Hey folks, I've collected my previous ideas into a public google doc. It includes several levels of features: Must-have, Useful, Wishful and Do not implement. It includes feature requests from throughout this thread, as well as some other documents (see Other Resources), and many of my own ideas.

Great document. I have some comments which are my own opinions, so take as much or little of these as you like:

• I don't think mod categories are a must-have. It's hard enough to get people to agree on what categories to use even when you do have a category system. (See: Curse, and how even consulting with #kspmodders, nobody can come up with a good category list.)
  
• Mod dependencies are definitely not a must-have. Too few mods have dependencies at all, and those that do are generally straight-forward to negotiate.
  
• I assume that in the "mod metadata" section, bold for required indicates that it's a required feature, not a required piece of metadata. In any case, this should be clarified. I don't think Links or License are necessary metadata; there's a description box for those. Maybe some users want them... which puts it down into the Useful or later category.
  
• I really like your proposed moderation scheme. It allows mods to immediately upload, but also enables moderators to easily filter out the obvious spammers. I'll only suggest that the flagging feature should probably be must-have.
  
• Does e-mail verification really count as a release-blocking system? I wonder if there's some sort of middle ground, e.g. requiring verification in order to get subscription notification e-mails.

Overall I quite like it. Some things could shift around but it's detailed while remaining concise.

[Nemrav]

well, haven't read everything here but I think we should have 3 main categories in the search engine : part pack, plugin, .craft and allow modders to choose multiple of these categories... don't allow more than 1 thing with the same name (or with a number attached) to prevent cluter..

even further, could have another set of categories for the searchbar like : rovers&boats, bases&stations, rocketry, aerospace(planes), career mode&realism. Allow modders to choose multiple here too.....

but yes, first off, get uploading&downloading back-end things done first, search engine seems like an inflammable topic..