The ARM megathread

[Deathsoul097]

Well, personally, after watching all the ARM related content posted today, I find myself worried about the future of the game. I know that seems heavy but hear me out.

With the addition of the SLS parts it concerns me that that days of "kerballing" something up might become a thing of the past. I recently started playing the Interstellar mod and it took me a few hours to put something together to throw a 3.75-meter reactor and its attachments into high orbit. Asparagus-staged orange tanks, clustered engines, etc.

Why, shoot, just stick an SLS under it. Problem solved. Launch a fully assembled station? SLS. Single stage to Eve? SLS.

I'm not saying the game is out the airlock with the new parts (not launching satellites with SLS parts (probably will for a goof)) but it just irks me, for lack of a better word, that we may have taken the "Kerbal" out of KSP.

I can't help but disagree. For one these parts are absolutely massive, so will be a huge pain to get anywhere unless they are going under their own relatively inefficient power. The parts are supposed to be at the very end of the tree, and are supposed to represent a total technological step up from the current in game tech, as it is modelled around existing and newer but decommissioned designs, rather than the Apollo/mercury-Gemini era that stock is based on. That being said, an LV-N is still more efficient than anything you can build with the SLS based parts. (I don't give a damn either way, I WANT THAT SRB SOOO BAD! Ares I FTW!)

Well, one would hope they're near the end of the tech tree. Then again, 5 years after the first man flew in space, the first Saturn V was launched. So there was a rapid progression of tech, but then an abandonment of it due to cost (and politics, hopefully ksp doesn't simulate that too much though). Maybe that will be the prime balancing factor for the SLS parts, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they're expensive as hell.

Well, if Maxmaps and Yargnit are to be trusted, then pretty much everything in the 0.23.5 will be endgame tech. (And ridiculously expensive.)

Edited March 25, 2014 by Deathsoul097

[AlamoVampire]

Well, personally, after watching all the ARM related content posted today, I find myself worried about the future of the game. I know that seems heavy but hear me out.

With the addition of the SLS parts it concerns me that that days of "kerballing" something up might become a thing of the past. I recently started playing the Interstellar mod and it took me a few hours to put something together to throw a 3.75-meter reactor and its attachments into high orbit. Asparagus-staged orange tanks, clustered engines, etc.

Why, shoot, just stick an SLS under it. Problem solved. Launch a fully assembled station? SLS. Single stage to Eve? SLS.

I'm not saying the game is out the airlock with the new parts (not launching satellites with SLS parts (probably will for a goof)) but it just irks me, for lack of a better word, that we may have taken the "Kerbal" out of KSP.

With the edition of larger more potent engines, your concerns would seem valid, if not for the precise factor of kerballing something together. I found, and this is NO joke, that with access to the 5m stuff from NovaPunch, I thought: Hey, SSTO stuff is in my grasp. NOPE. I found that with bigger engines came bigger rockets came the need to asparagus stuff STILL. want proof?

this is a 3.75m heavy lifter I dubbed the Okto Heavy Lifter. Why Okto? No clue, but hey why not right? Point is, its a 3.75m core with 6 2.5m 4 engine Asparagus <thats 4 PER booster>

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secondly, I am wholly excited AND disappointed by what I have seen thus far with ARM. no robotic arm? come on guys, give us one already, mods are nice, but, it would be nice to NOT have to build some frankenstein arm. ALSO, It upsets me that from what I heard, we gotta start a NEW game to get the asteroids? wtf? then why do ANYTHING in science right now? Whats the point? I have had my tech tree maxed out since 2-3 DAYS after .22 gave us science, and now you tell me I gotta do it all over again? um NO. someone figure out how to plug nasa INTO current game saves please, and THEN post a thread about it please.

Edited March 25, 2014 by AlamoVampire

[manuelasa1999]

Will they release a bigger capsule for the NASA pack?I would likea 3 meters one with capacity for 7 kerbals

[Rassa Farlander]

Will they release a bigger capsule for the NASA pack?I would likea 3 meters one with capacity for 7 kerbals

I would very much like to see this in stock, or even a mod for that matter. There really isnt a capsule that is a high enough quality and balanced enough for my taste in this role. (ie no dragonrider, sorry CBBP)

I feel this would be a perfect addition to the game.

[AlternNocturn]

<thats 4="" per="" booster="">ALSO, It upsets me that from what I heard, we gotta start a NEW game to get the asteroids? wtf? then why do ANYTHING in science right now? Whats the point? I have had my tech tree maxed out since 2-3 DAYS after .22 gave us science, and now you tell me I gotta do it all over again? um NO. someone figure out how to plug nasa INTO current game saves please, and THEN post a thread about it please.

I've had to get rid of countless saves during the course of development of the game, whether that be a stock-to-stock incompatibility, or I installed too many mods. As someone who's lost a lot of work, trust me when I say this: if you're getting attached to your saves, stop doing that until the game is finished. That being said, feel free to either stay in 0.23 forever, or back up your KSP installs.</thats>

[AlamoVampire]

I've had to get rid of countless saves during the course of development of the game, whether that be a stock-to-stock incompatibility, or I installed too many mods. As someone who's lost a lot of work, trust me when I say this: if you're getting attached to your saves, stop doing that until the game is finished. That being said, feel free to either stay in 0.23 forever, or back up your KSP installs.</thats>

its not that I am attached to my save, its that, the grind for science points was frustratingly boring the FIRST time around. I do not want to have to do that again. Can I? Yes. Do I want to? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Why? Because they broke the mass repeating ability of science. I cannot do 1 mission with 2-3 goo cans 2-3 materials bay and tour the solar system for profit. Now, its: use it, transmit and its done OR use it, save it and its dead weight STILL, just with 1 round of science on it. No, as much as I hate grinding my way through XP or in this case SCIENCE, I want efficiency not forced repeat trips.

[CalculusWarrior]

its not that I am attached to my save, its that, the grind for science points was frustratingly boring the FIRST time around. I do not want to have to do that again. Can I? Yes. Do I want to? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Why? Because they broke the mass repeating ability of science. I cannot do 1 mission with 2-3 goo cans 2-3 materials bay and tour the solar system for profit. Now, its: use it, transmit and its done OR use it, save it and its dead weight STILL, just with 1 round of science on it. No, as much as I hate grinding my way through XP or in this case SCIENCE, I want efficiency not forced repeat trips.

Just play sandbox mode. That's what I've done for my most recent restart.

[The Destroyer]

To be honest, science isn't grindy if you know how to actually get to other planets. Eve, Duna, Kerbin, and all their moons will get you the full tech tree basically.

[AlamoVampire]

To be honest, science isn't grindy if you know how to actually get to other planets. Eve, Duna, Kerbin, and all their moons will get you the full tech tree basically.

still one heck of a grind now in .23. I tried a new career save when .23 came out to see how it changed from how I did it, and it well, nearly had me tearing my hair out it was soo inefficient. The days of massive science probes like this: where I can send maybe 2-3 of them out into the void to hit a few planets and get 2-3k in science PER vessel are gone, and that drop in efficiency makes me want to avoid new career saves like the plague.

[KvickFlygarn87]

Ohmygawdohmygawdohmygawd. The magic boulder should return in .24 with a mission called "taunting the magic boulder". You have to use some kind of thing to detect the boulder, then youf ind it. When found, return it to Kerbin for excessive taunting.

[Deathsoul097]

still one heck of a grind now in .23. I tried a new career save when .23 came out to see how it changed from how I did it, and it well, nearly had me tearing my hair out it was soo inefficient. The days of massive science probes like this: http://imageshack.com/a/img443/7782/4u04.png where I can send maybe 2-3 of them out into the void to hit a few planets and get 2-3k in science PER vessel are gone, and that drop in efficiency makes me want to avoid new career saves like the plague.

Really? That just seems to take the fun out of it. Hell, you can get thousands of science just by doing missions like the Apollo Venus flyby, or landing a probe out on Laythe or Tylo.I like that we can't just spam science any more, it means that I have to go, I have to reach out and explore, and do different things, which is the kind of thing that keeps me going. I can't just repeat the same thing over and over again, and get fun out of it, I need new, difference and change, which are the major reasons I love KSP. Every single update allows for new ways to play the game, and new ways to work and explore. Who gives a damn about efficiency!? Good riddance to science-spam I say, and on with change!

[MKI]

still one heck of a grind now in .23. I tried a new career save when .23 came out to see how it changed from how I did it, and it well, nearly had me tearing my hair out it was soo inefficient. The days of massive science probes like this: http://imageshack.com/a/img443/7782/4u04.png where I can send maybe 2-3 of them out into the void to hit a few planets and get 2-3k in science PER vessel are gone, and that drop in efficiency makes me want to avoid new career saves like the plague.

The whole point was to make career more challenging. Yes its "grindy" because its suppose to be. Before the changes to infinite Science spam. Send probe, get solar panels, spam science game over. If you want to get all the parts easily, play sandbox. If you want a challenge of making missions to gain more parts(at least for now, .24 will bring contracts and rep) then career.

There was little to no actual game play differences, now its most profitable to send actual people and get them back. Kerbin moons are gold mines, where the Science lab and mini missions can get you nearly the whole tech tree. A big effective mission to Duna or eve can net the rest of your tree.

Career mode missions can still be as or even MORE effective but it is harder than before. But a dedicated player can find ways to finish the three in 2-3 launches easy.(minimus can be completed with dedication at tech 0)

The new parts are meant to help with end game, since they are basically launch stages in only a few parts. As the Devs said, at this stage it matters more about the Payload, not the launcher.

[problemecium]

Hey, SSTO stuff is in my grasp. NOPE. I found that with bigger engines came bigger rockets came the need to asparagus stuff STILL.<thats 4="" per="" booster="">

</thats>Off topic, but if I may drop in a short advice blurb, my hypothesis is that you don't have enough fuel per engine. For example, my experiments indicate that the Mainsail gets maximum deltaV (and more than enough to reach LKO) with about 2.5 orange tanks' worth per engine; the LV-T45 peaks at around 7 "standard" FL-T400 tanks (I have a habit of measuring in tanks rather than units ^^

With that modded craft I can't tell for sure, but it looks like you might be able to stick more fuel on there and still have it be flyable.

[KnutG]

yesterday in ksptv i saw this shuttle (unfortunately not the whole presentation):

and i heard it could open his payload bay. Has anyone seen this? How could he open this without a hinge part? Has he use the claw as hinge?!

[The Destroyer]

Two things:

One. I like the change in 0.23 of not being able to repeat experiments. This actually gives meaning to return missions and actually makes you need to do something.

Two. About robotic arms, TECHNICALLY, you CAN make them in ARM. The CLAW has a lock and free mode!

[MKI]

Two things:

One. I like the change in 0.23 of not being able to repeat experiments. This actually gives meaning to return missions and actually makes you need to do something.

Two. About robotic arms, TECHNICALLY, you CAN make them in ARM. The CLAW has a lock and free mode!

I gotta learn more about this claw free mode. I still don't really understand the Free mode to well.

[The Destroyer]

As far as I know, when it's "Free" it can rotate around. When fixed, it dosen't. So, this can be used to line up your ship with an asteroids CoM. And it could be used to say...

oh my god.

[MKI]

As far as I know, when it's "Free" it can rotate around. When fixed, it dosen't. So, this can be used to line up your ship with an asteroids CoM. And it could be used to say...

oh my god.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Cropped_jumbo.jpg

Could it be used in such a way to act like a Joint How would the SAS and controls of each side of the "ship" handle this?

If the claw can be used this way, all they have to really do is allow players to start the claw opened, and connect it with parts and BAM moving parts.

[Rune]

its not that I am attached to my save, its that, the grind for science points was frustratingly boring the FIRST time around. I do not want to have to do that again. Can I? Yes. Do I want to? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Why? Because they broke the mass repeating ability of science. I cannot do 1 mission with 2-3 goo cans 2-3 materials bay and tour the solar system for profit. Now, its: use it, transmit and its done OR use it, save it and its dead weight STILL, just with 1 round of science on it. No, as much as I hate grinding my way through XP or in this case SCIENCE, I want efficiency not forced repeat trips.

Then it's a good thing you can give yourself any given amount of science points through less than a minute of savefile editing. In case you want to keep going from the place you started from.

Rune. You could also move ships to the new save, but that's more complicated.

[Kasuha]

You can already have flexible joints in 0.23.

And surprisingly, the navball and controls work depending on where you choose "control from here"

[biohazard15]

That's a great bullwhip Kasuha!

AFAIK, there wasn't any confirmation of that you'll need to start a new save to get asteroids. But if so - I'll just edit my save to regain my science points. I've been planning to restart my career with 0.24 and contracts, before then it's just save editing.

[biohazard15]

yesterday in ksptv i saw this shuttle (unfortunately not the whole presentation):

http://www.kerbalspaceprogram.de/wcf/images/photos/photo-3921-c4d8ca23.jpg

and i heard it could open his payload bay. Has anyone seen this? How could he open this without a hinge part? Has he use the claw as hinge?!

That cargobay door uses docking ports, RCS thrusters and a lot of small cubic struts. You can still watch the video, BTW: http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/b/513905806

[KnutG]

That cargobay door uses docking ports, RCS thrusters and a lot of small cubic struts. You can still watch the video, BTW: http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/b/513905806

Many thanks for this - now i understand this

[KerbMav]

Are the asteroids just ghosts until they are tracked? Could we encounter them even untracked or are they just "sensor blips" that only manifest if locked on by the tracking station?

How many asteroids can be tracked?

Do they vanish if they are untracked and nothing is docked/clawed unto them anymore?

The devs said at one point, that .24 will be not to far behind after ARM - so I think .23 1/2 will be sandbox for me again to fool around with everything that is new.

[biohazard15]

Are the asteroids just ghosts until they are tracked? Could we encounter them even untracked or are they just "sensor blips" that only manifest if locked on by the tracking station?

How many asteroids can be tracked?

Do they vanish if they are untracked and nothing is docked/clawed unto them anymore?

The devs said at one point, that .24 will be not to far behind after ARM - so I think .23 1/2 will be sandbox for me again to fool around with everything that is new.

You can't target an asteroid if it is not tracked - it won't appear on the map view.

You can track an infinite amount of asteroids - if your PC can handle them (just like debris - you will get massive lags with excessive amount)

Looks like it's impossible to "preview" asteroid until actual rendezvous - "Fly" button remains inactive when you track them.

Untracked asteroids will vanish; I don't know what will happen if you unclaw and leave it be (and would it be possible to "fly" them like debris afterwards)