New SLS vs Asparagus

[MKI]

The New parts bring massive strengths compared to current parts. They also do not come with a new decouple system, so Asparagus staging will be more difficult to do with the larger parts (not impossible).

So will you still try to use Asparagus with the newer parts, do you think you will even need them on an average mission? Finally, do you think Asparagus staging will become more of a niche build style rather than the main way to get ridiculous things to orbit?(or just heavy things.)

[CalculusWarrior]

I've always liked the serial staging system, which (in my mind) is less dangerous and requires less staging events. I've never found the need to put insane payloads into orbit anyways.

However, there will be some *cough*Whackjob*cough* who will create an asparagus staged monstrosity to put well over a megatonne (1000 tonnes) of payload into orbit. Since the largest asteroids have been confirmed to be ~3500t, they may be a necessity.

[95tiger59]

People will get every little drop of Delta-V if they can and they will

[MKI]

Delta-V may be a nice thing, but the Reliability, ease of use and simplification of the new parts is something to be reckoned with.

Obviously using the new parts with Asparagus will give much higher dv, the question is do you really really need that much more? The whole point of the new parts is to make going places easier. For the average mission, or the above average mission these new parts are probably going to be the mainstay.

I can only see Asparagus(using the new parts) working for ridiculous missions, such as single Launch huge Space Station designs.

[Superfluous J]

I won't speak until I try it, but I don't see why you couldn't use he new parts with radial decouplers and struts. You apparently won't need as many struts for your vertical connections, but nothing's keeping us from continuing to use them radially.

[Xeldrak]

megatonne (1000 tonnes)

A megatonne would be 1000000t.

1000t is a kilotonne.

I know, some people might consider this nitpicking, but do call yourself CalculusWarrior.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Xeldrak

[Twreed87]

I'm definitely going to try out asparagus staging with 6 radial stages, but I'm hoping it'll be rare that it's necessary. This will allow heavy launch vehicles that just look nicer.

More often I'll probably use a center 3.75m (or whatever) stack, with 6 or 8 radially attached 2.5m stacks in asparagus. It'll definitely be fun to play around with though, and I can't wait to see what I can get into orbit in a single go.

[Nano606]

There will be no reason why you wont be able to use the standard radial decouplers. Just put a strut above each engine as low and as high as it can go connecting it to the main rocket and this will stop most of the wobble. For me i dont think it will change much in the gameplay as i already use the 3m & 5m parts from modpacks anyway. Using the 5m tanks, boy can you deliver some serious mass to orbit.

[magnemoe]

The New parts bring massive strengths compared to current parts. They also do not come with a new decouple system, so Asparagus staging will be more difficult to do with the larger parts (not impossible).

So will you still try to use Asparagus with the newer parts, do you think you will even need them on an average mission? Finally, do you think Asparagus staging will become more of a niche build style rather than the main way to get ridiculous things to orbit?(or just heavy things.)

Do not see why asparagus should be harder, if anything it should be easier. imagine the SLS picture with 4-6 boosters and asparagus.

However asparagus might be less useful as you can launch more payloads with an single stack and perhaps some SRB.

Stiffer joints might be even more important, if you launch something heavy you need the side boosters anyway to stabilize the cargo, you could not launch it with an single stack because of stability.

[Red Iron Crown]

The bigger parts won't kill asparagus, it will just result in bigger asparagus configurations.

A better aerodynamic model is what will kill asparagus.

[Superfluous J]

Also, I think you may be working on inaccurate information.

The New parts bring massive strengths compared to current parts.

I believe the "massive strengths" you're talking about is the multiple joint connection points. These are not being restricted to the new parts from what I've read. All parts, new and old (including radial decouplers) should have more stable connection points.

[Deathsoul097]

The bigger parts won't kill asparagus, it will just result in bigger asparagus configurations.

A better aerodynamic model is what will kill asparagus.

Nah, even with Ferram the gain of asparagus is greater than the drag losses (due to a greater cross-sectional area), to a point of course.

[Red Iron Crown]

Nah, even with Ferram the gain of asparagus is greater than the drag losses (due to a greater cross-sectional area), to a point of course.

I don't play with FAR, does it take into account the additional drag when parts protrude past the supersonic shockwave created by the nose?

[Deathsoul097]

I don't think so, but I don't use it much so maybe. Ferram would be a better person to ask.

[allmappedout]

Since Ferram brought out KJR, I have built far more serial spacecraft, and I enjoy building like that - Asparagus feels too easy with KJR (as the ship doesn't tend to shake itself apart), and I like the challenge of things like getting burn times on SRBs right so that the TWR of the remaining rocket is sufficient, etc etc.

[Kasuha]

The New parts bring massive strengths compared to current parts. They also do not come with a new decouple system, so Asparagus staging will be more difficult to do with the larger parts (not impossible).

Yes, it may be slightly more difficult to make staging safe with these parts and relatively smaller gap the old decoupler provides but I don't think it will be impossible. As of my experience people often use struts and sepatrons even with current parts and that will not change significantly.

So will you still try to use Asparagus with the newer parts,

I'm usually lazy so if I don't need asparagus to get my payload to orbit, I don't use it. If I get large payload to get to orbit though, I will definitely do asparagus with new parts too.

do you think you will even need them on an average mission?

That's hard to say, depends on what is an average mission. I believe it will be necessary to tame some of bigger asteroids, for instance. And that may turn to be an average mission for some people.

Finally, do you think Asparagus staging will become more of a niche build style rather than the main way to get ridiculous things to orbit?(or just heavy things.)

I think there may be slightly less asparagus with them as people will find "reality roleplay" more viable option than before. But I don't think asparagus will become forgotten or something.

[Temstar]

Finally, do you think Asparagus staging will become more of a niche build style rather than the main way to get ridiculous things to orbit?(or just heavy things.)

See unlike in real life, people in KSP tend not to think "I have a launch vehicle that can put 60 tons to LKO, what missions can I do with that kind of payload". It's more a matter of "I've just built an 100 ton spacecraft, are there any rockets around big enough to loft this up?"

Payload is really only limited by your imagination and your CPU. I've seen plenty of ships weighing many hundreds of tons on the spacecraft exchange with people asking "can anyone build a launch vehicle for me to send this up". With larger parts around the corner it's only natural that payload size will increase too. So it's never going to be a case of "100 tons to LKO should be enough for anybody".

As for asparagus being aerodynamically unrealistic because it's wide, I'm not sure so about that. I present you:

The Single-stage Earth-orbital Reusable Vehicle, Chrysler's submission for the space shuttle design. Chrysler is not a bucket shop, they built the first stage of the Saturn V rocket and they spent some good money coming up with this design, so obviously in real life the tubby shape is not really that big of an obstacle in getting to orbit.

[timsfitz]

I love asparagus staging so I'm going to continue using it for the interplanetary missions. For the Mun and Minmus it won't be necessary.

[rkman]

They also do not come with a new decouple system

Are the liquid fuel boosters not mounted on radial decouplers which do in fact work? Then all it takes to make it asparagus is two fuel lines.

[pauix]

do you really really need that much more?

It's not about what you need, it's about what you can do. The more overkill the rocket, the better

[liweih]

People easily notice the size of the new fuel tank but ignore the important fact that joints between parts are becoming much stronger thanks for the new version of unity. The devnote mentioned it several times.

[Comrade Jenkens]

I love the fact that no struts are needed to build a stack of tanks now.

I'll be using linear staging as I just prefer how it looks.

[malkuth]

I have not used asparagus in a long time now, so no real effect on me at this point.

[rkman]

The Single-stage Earth-orbital Reusable Vehicle, Chrysler's submission for the space shuttle design.

...so obviously in real life the tubby shape is not really that big of an obstacle in getting to orbit

There's tubby and then there's tubby. A rocket with 2 or 4 lateral mounted booster (whether asparagus or not) can still be pretty sleek. Otoh some asparagus designs are 2 or 3 layers deep and may be wider than they are tall - that's tubby. That Chrysler vehicle is hardly more tubby than the Saturn V.

[Ravenchant]

Come on, people, we all know asparagus will still get used (and abused) even if Squad adds five-metre parts

A 3.75m core with four or six 2.5m outer stacks shouldn't look too jarring, though.