B9 5.0 pre-release (with download)

[Taverius]

You can't really do anything except what we're already doing cargo-ramp wise without using Infernal Robotics, which none of know how to create content for, assuming I was ready to include yet another plugin just for one part.

Maybe there's something that can done with a less intensive plugin, but I haven't seen anything so far.

[K3-Chris]

A C-130 style nose opening is less problematic because you tend to have less obstructions ahead of the cockpit than to the rear/side of the rear of the main fuselage, problem is the ramp.

[How2FoldSoup]

I'll be honest I only have basic programming knowledge. I was not suggesting to use IR itself but only something through firespitter. I don't know the limitations of firespitter at all. Given current cargo bay mechanics I think a cargo ramp similar to the two I posted above could be possible, but again I am no coder so I don't know the limitations of the plugin. Plus the final say is always yours.

[K3-Chris]

FS just runs a normal generic animation as far as I know, which has a start and end. Whole reason IR exists is because the default animation system is so limited.

I know it's hard to get up to speed on this but I, Tav and Bac9 have spent months on IRC discussing topics like this with the people that make those plugins like FS and IR, we've explored options

Edited August 28, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Guest]

Just a note, C130 is the Herc, with a normal tail ramp. What you're thinking of is C5 Galaxy, or the AN-225 (though a model for that is already in SXT).

[How2FoldSoup]

Out of curiosity why is the ramp a problem? Is it something with FS or where the ramp comes from itself.

[scottpaladin]

I'd be pleased if I could just flip the existing cargo bays upside down and have them open on the belly of the craft, but then the textures won't match and that looks really dumb.

[Sufficient Anonymity]

Maybe I'm just experiencing some kind of weird nocebo effect from not having applied a specific patch to tweak the landing gears, but the more I've played around transferring some old designs to the new parts, the more I've become convinced that the updated gear are more jittery than the ones in the community repacks.

Anyone else seeing this or am I just going a little crazy?

[Taverius]

Maybe I'm just experiencing some kind of weird nocebo effect from not having applied a specific patch to tweak the landing gears, but the more I've played around transferring some old designs to the new parts, the more I've become convinced that the updated gear are more jittery than the ones in the community repacks.

Anyone else seeing this or am I just going a little crazy?

Probably so? The community repacks set the sideways friction so low stopped planes sideways on an incline slide down until they hit flat terrain. I'm not going to do that. Strut your wheels.

[Guest]

Squad needs to fix the bug that causes gear to bend asymmetrically. That is what really is the problem, not sideways friction values.

[K3-Chris]

Unity wheels are frankly garbage, it's a matter of compromise, no friction at all and they behave very nicely, no jumping or buckling and no sudden rolling over going down the runway because the wheels got a bit of traction sideways and pushed the entire plane into a roll, but you can't stop on any kind of slope, including the slight slope of the runway because it's completely straight instead of following the curvature of kerbin, it's a very shallow bowl in effect in reference to ground height, why you roll forwards on plane spawn with no brakes on.

Unity wheels don't have dynamic grip, hence it's a matter of trying to pick one that works the best across a very long range of circumstances. Real wheels have dynamic grip, when stationary static friction, brakes and or the clutch being connected to the engine makes a lot of stationary mass have to get moving to move anywhere, it takes a lot more force to get a large mass going than keeping it going, and when you loose traction your grip lowers a lot, and wheels aren't designed to have good traction when going sideways making slideways skids (especially on loose surfaces) a lot less dangerous, you slide instead of roll.

TT wheels are a good example of wheels set with lower friction than squad ones, they're awesome to drive around KSC with, you can powerslide like in tokyo, but park on a hill and you slide down.

Edited August 28, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Sufficient Anonymity]

Unity wheels are frankly garbage, it's a matter of compromise, no friction at all and they behave very nicely, no jumping or buckling and no sudden rolling over going down the runway because the wheels got a bit of traction sideways and pushed the entire plane into a roll, but you can't stop on any kind of slope, including the slight slope of the runway because it's completely straight instead of following the curvature of kerbin, it's a very shallow bowl in effect in reference to ground height, why you roll forwards on plane spawn with no brakes on.

Unity wheels don't have dynamic grip, hence it's a matter of trying to pick one that works the best across a very long range of circumstances. Real wheels have dynamic grip, when stationary static friction, brakes and or the clutch being connected to the engine makes a lot of stationary mass have to get moving to move anywhere, it takes a lot more force to get a large mass going than keeping it going, and when you loose traction your grip lowers a lot, and wheels aren't designed to have good traction when going sideways making slideways skids (especially on loose surfaces) a lot less dangerous, you slide instead of roll.

TT wheels are a good example of wheels set with lower friction than squad ones, they're awesome to drive around KSC with, you can powerslide like in tokyo, but park on a hill and you slide down.

So that would be why my planes used to slide towards the middle of the runway.

[K3-Chris]

I don't hold it against the fan fixers, if you only focus on how the wheels behave on the runway what they were doing by lowering the friction to near 0 was correct, but it means you can't land on slightly uneven terrain without sliding really far. It's a compromise. Oh and obviously unity wheels have no rolling resistance.

I wonder if it would be possible to tie the friction of the wheels to relative velocity to the ground or something like that, though that'd cause hilarious problems with stuff with wheels on top of another vessel.

Edited August 28, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Sufficient Anonymity]

I wonder if it would be possible to tie the friction of the wheels to relative velocity to the ground or something like that, though that'd cause hilarious problems with stuff with wheels on top of another vessel.

I'm half tempted to go back to dropping the friction and then strapping massive drag chutes to everything for when I inevitably land on the wrong side of the world. I've always been strangely strut averse :/

[Atrius129]

Great job on the new B9 Pack guys. My jaw literally dropped when I saw the new cockpit internals. Freaking beautiful.

I loaded up the Ships folder hoping to find the craft on the OP. I saw a few pages back that they were being considered for upload? Any news on that yet?

[K3-Chris]

I'm half tempted to go back to dropping the friction and then strapping massive drag chutes to everything for when I inevitably land on the wrong side of the world. I've always been strangely strut averse :/

I don't really think the struts help, I can't say for sure but I've tired a million struts to landing gear and it seems to do nothing, if you only take off and land on the runway/KSC flats lower friction is the way to go, but if you then ever land on the side of a hill on the mun...

You can tweak stuff to better suit your playstyle, but the main pack has to at least work decently in most scenarios, people might want to land on a hill on the mun/duna/whatever with the landing gear, if it has near no traction it would be pretty impossible to do so.

I saw a few pages back that they were being considered for upload? Any news on that yet?

That's in Bac9's hands, he's a very busy man though, I might make an attempt at replicating it.

Edited August 28, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Mighty1]

In regard to the cargobay discussion I would like to point out that the doors like that already exists in TTs Mk4 fuseladge system. It is old and needs some .part editing but it still works and I use it all the time in my spaceplanes.

[Alshain]

I made a module manager patch that simple changed sidewaysStiffness =2, which was how the last B9 pack I used in 23.5 had it. (Probably was one of the community patches)

That seemed to resolve the jittery effect for me. I can understand if the devs don't want to do that, but for me the wheels seemed unusable without it, so I modded the mod as opposed to abandoning the wheels. Between the old and new files, that was the only difference I saw other than the sound effects and things in the new one.

[K3-Chris]

In regard to the cargobay discussion I would like to point out that the doors like that already exists in TTs Mk4 fuseladge system. It is old and needs some .part editing but it still works and I use it all the time in my spaceplanes.

TT didn't release anything for further development by other authors, we can't use anything he made, and frankly, it's not B9 quality, I can see the case for larger cargo, though frankly HL is already large enough to make takeoffs and landings white-knuckle affairs, And HL is approaching what the physics can handle, and there is the case Tav has raised, being able to launch the equivalent of an Atlas 5 inside a plane is... well... ludicrous.

A wider variant of HL allowing 2.5 parts with radial attachments isn't as daft a notion though, problem is that you can't really scale animated parts easily, it's a non-trivial workload to make a new fuselage shape, and HL is already very high in variants, near doubling them isn't something I'd like to ask Tav to do...

I made a module manager patch that simple changed sidewaysStiffness =2, which was how the last B9 pack I used in 23.5 had it. (Probably was one of the community patches)

That seemed to resolve the jittery effect for me. I can understand if the devs don't want to do that, but for me the wheels seemed unusable without it, so I modded the mod as opposed to abandoning the wheels. Between the old and new files, that was the only difference I saw other than the sound effects and things in the new one.

How well do the modified wheels work on terrain, slopes etc?

[kanelives]

there are landing gear in this? I must have installed wrong, cause I also don't see the bays with opening doors on them. you unpack the zip into the gamedata folder of ksp yeah?

[schoff123]

In the download, do we need the "DEPRECATED" folder if we do not have B9 already installed? i would assume we don't need it, but idk if there are any dependencies...

PS: I love the new version!!!

[K3-Chris]

there are landing gear in this? I must have installed wrong, cause I also don't see the bays with opening doors on them. you unpack the zip into the gamedata folder of ksp yeah?

No in KSP folder, look inside and you'll see gamedata in there. You've nested gamedata folders, that doesn't work.

In the download, do we need the "DEPRECATED" folder if we do not have B9 already installed? i would assume we don't need it, but idk if there are any dependencies...

No, it's only there to allow you to keep using 4.0 B9 craft.

Edited August 28, 2014 by K3|Chris

[How2FoldSoup]

I'd be pleased if I could just flip the existing cargo bays upside down and have them open on the belly of the craft, but then the textures won't match and that looks really dumb.

I tried something once with IR where I put a docking washer and a free rotating washer on both ends of the cargobay and was able to rotate the cargo bay once lifted off the ground via telescoping pistons. It works in practice but in reality the rovers I wanted to use were too heavy to be lowered via KAS winches

[Alshain]

How well do the modified wheels work on terrain, slopes etc?

I can't say I've tried it. I'll take my plane and drive it around to the highlands on the ground when I get home this evening. But I don't dis-beleive you when you say it's going to have friction problems. I just don't use planes to land on the mun a lot. I may not need the patch as I get better at landing.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Alshain

[rhoark]

HX looks quite amazing and unexpected. The only thing I can imagine that the pack is missing is a hollow connector between S2 and S2W cargo bays. It wouldn't even need to open, just be traversable.