Universal Storage 1.4.0.0 (For KSP 1.4.x) 13th March 2018

[Akaji]

I'm also seeing the quad core explode if I go to 3x or 4x physics warp. My quad core was sandwiched between a 1.25m fuel tank (the longest stock one) and the basic stock command pod. It had a magnetometer, science bay, mysterious goo, and orbital telescope.

I haven't tested with hex or octo yet.

I haven't tried with just Univ. Storage and no other mods.

[GarouD]

Hi, first of all thank you so much for the mod, I have been using it since 0.24 I think, it's now a must have mod for me, recently I have been using CKAN to manage my mods, and in the past I remember a optional config file that modifies the human consumption rates for TAC to kerbal consumption rates, it's not available anymore? I have been searching for the past few days without any success and since I don't use realism overhaul I really need it :S Thank you in advance for any info and sorry for my "Spanish"

Edited July 1, 2015 by GarouD

[smjjames]

I haven't seen the cores explode yet (haven't used the hex and octo yet), but I have noticed that the wedge versions of DMagics science experiments (the Mystery Goo and Materials Science. Especially the materials science one) have problems with heating during reentry. I posted about it on DMagics orbital science thread thinking that it was something with that mod.

[Daishi]

Hi, first of all thank you so much for the mod, I have been using it since 0.24 I think, it's now a must have mod for me, recently I have been using CKAN to manage my mods, and in the past I remember a optional config file that modifies the human consumption rates for TAC to kerbal consumption rates, it's not available anymore? I have been searching for the past few days without any success and since I don't use realism overhaul I really need it :S Thank you in advance for any info and sorry for my "Spanish"

Thank you for sticking with us for that long! If you scroll up the page and look in Paul Kingtiger's signature, there's a link to his Onedrive. Inside it, follow the folder "Public -> Kerbal Space Program -> Old Versions -> 0.9" till you find "US_TAC_0.9.2.7.zip". Inside that will be a "Human Consumption" folder, and a pdf explaining what to do. I'd personally wait until Paul turns up and verifies this won't break anything with our newest version; but there's no harm trying it out in a separate installation away from your main install and saves.

I haven't seen the cores explode yet (haven't used the hex and octo yet), but I have noticed that the wedge versions of DMagics science experiments (the Mystery Goo and Materials Science. Especially the materials science one) have problems with heating during reentry. I posted about it on DMagics orbital science thread thinking that it was something with that mod.

I haven't come across it either, although I'm still technically running KSP 1.02 with minimal mods so my experiences mean nothing Do you guys have logs around the time things exploded? NathanKell has a great writeup here with bug reporting FAQ's and procedure.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see that log in the post above me. Having a look now.

And yeah, heat is weird. We've still got a lot of work to do to make things behave properly, I just hope Squad has finished tweaking the heat system and its stable enough to start balancing things on. Work in progress!

- - - Updated - - -

I've just done a load of tests and it seems to only happen if I hit 4x warp either during or after the heating/aero. If I leave it without warp or 2/3x its fine.

Ah ok thanks (has it only just appeared since 1.0.3/4? since it was fine before then), I'll try removing the sci bay and retest

Edit: The core is still blowing without the sci bay attached. Guess I just cant warp through reentry anymore.

From what i can see with your logs, Tweakscale is throwing "Warning: Duplicate TweakScale module on part [uS.1C10.Wedge.Quadcore]" about three or four times, and from that the game starts rendering aerodynamic drag over and over again. (DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for US.1C10.Wedge.Quadcore). Do they generate heat at a really high rate, as if they had multiple atmospheres of drag acting on them at once? :\

See if temporarily removing Tweakscale fixes the problem - something doesn't sound right there.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Daishi

[GarouD]

Thank you for sticking with us for that long! If you scroll up the page and look in Paul Kingtiger's signature, there's a link to his Onedrive. Inside it, follow the folder "Public -> Kerbal Space Program -> Old Versions -> 0.9" till you find "US_TAC_0.9.2.7.zip". Inside that will be a "Human Consumption" folder, and a pdf explaining what to do. I'd personally wait until Paul turns up and verifies this won't break anything with our newest version; but there's no harm trying it out in a separate installation away from your main install and saves.

Thank you so much for the quick response! Works like a charm, no more 193 days of oxygen with a single canister .

It's only me or the link for the Onedrive page is barely visible? I didn't notice it before . Btw the new water block in the development thread is absolutely gorgeous!

[Sandworm]

Problem solved ... well, not solved so much as lost.

I was getting explosions at any physical time warp. The log pointed to TweekScale and/or TweakableEverything. The part was overheating, but the explosions were within 1 second of leaving the pad. Anyway ... I was all set for a proper bug report with logs on dropbox and such but it seems to have gone away. I pulled TweakScale and TweakableEverything --> problem gone. Put them back --> problem still gone. I cannot get back to where I was. Rather than do nothing and forget about the problem, I'll post my story here in case anyone else is having similar troubles.

Log of typical problem: Note the part fails within 1 second of launch ... that cannot be from aero heating, even double or triple aero heating. This was every launch, every in-space burn, any time I used physical time warp.

[LOG 20:26:14.161] [HGR.FG90.Engine]: Activated
[LOG 20:26:14.161] [00:00:00]: Liftoff!!
[LOG 20:26:14.367] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFF87132][64.64]: New vessel: Untitled Space Craft (15369986-e040-40b3-870c-6b2e8c594edd)
[LOG 20:26:14.368] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFF87132][64.64]: New crew member: Bob Kerman
[LOG 20:26:14.368] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFF87132][64.64]: New crew member: Valentina Kerman
[LOG 20:26:15.858] [00:00:01]: Universal Storage: Hexacore exploded due to overheating.
[LOG 20:26:15.858] US.1C15.Wedge.Hexacore Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.5

Pix (two different tests)

Edited July 2, 2015 by Sandworm

[Daishi]

Problem solved ... well, not solved so much as lost.

I was getting explosions at any physical time warp. The log pointed to TweekScale and/or TweakableEverything. The part was overheating, but the explosions were within 1 second of leaving the pad. Anyway ... I was all set for a proper bug report with logs on dropbox and such but it seems to have gone away. I pulled TweakScale and TweakableEverything --> problem gone. Put them back --> problem still gone. I cannot get back to where I was. Rather than do nothing and forget about the problem, I'll post my story here in case anyone else is having similar troubles.

Log of typical problem: Note the part fails within 1 second of launch ... that cannot be from aero heating, even double or triple aero heating. This was every launch, every in-space burn, any time I used physical time warp.

[LOG 20:26:14.161] [HGR.FG90.Engine]: Activated
[LOG 20:26:14.161] [00:00:00]: Liftoff!!
[LOG 20:26:14.367] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFF87132][64.64]: New vessel: Untitled Space Craft (15369986-e040-40b3-870c-6b2e8c594edd)
[LOG 20:26:14.368] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFF87132][64.64]: New crew member: Bob Kerman
[LOG 20:26:14.368] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFF87132][64.64]: New crew member: Valentina Kerman
[LOG 20:26:15.858] [00:00:01]: Universal Storage: Hexacore exploded due to overheating.
[LOG 20:26:15.858] US.1C15.Wedge.Hexacore Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.5

Pix (two different tests)

http://i.imgur.com/tir2kFsm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/419eEmem.png

So it was something to do with Tweakscale and\or its derivatives - thanks for testing and reporting back We'll have a look into it, and see if its something we can patch.

[Torih]

From what i can see with your logs, Tweakscale is throwing "Warning: Duplicate TweakScale module on part [uS.1C10.Wedge.Quadcore]" about three or four times, and from that the game starts rendering aerodynamic drag over and over again. (DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for US.1C10.Wedge.Quadcore). Do they generate heat at a really high rate, as if they had multiple atmospheres of drag acting on them at once? :\

See if temporarily removing Tweakscale fixes the problem - something doesn't sound right there.

I've removed both TweakScale and TweakableEverything and its still exploding due to overheating on 4x warp in atmosphere. Not 100% sure if I needed to create a new ship after removing them (I didn't) to test it?

Updated output: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wycdmficqsel2w/output_log%20-%2003-07.txt?dl=0

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Question: How is this for memory/framerate? I deleted all the TAC for balance & aesthetic reasons, but now I'm building a Duna station that's gonna need to keep a whole lot of scientists alive for a very long time, and it's involving a lot of US containers. (Like... at least seven full octocores, probably more.) Is this gonna be as bad as, say, putting an equivalent number of solar panels on my station?

[damerell]

Question: How is this for memory/framerate? I deleted all the TAC for balance & aesthetic reasons, but now I'm building a Duna station that's gonna need to keep a whole lot of scientists alive for a very long time, and it's involving a lot of US containers. (Like... at least seven full octocores, probably more.) Is this gonna be as bad as, say, putting an equivalent number of solar panels on my station?

Part count is part count (more or less), yes. But 56 US wedges? That seems quite a lot.

[Sandworm]

Question: How is this for memory/framerate? I deleted all the TAC for balance & aesthetic reasons, but now I'm building a Duna station that's gonna need to keep a whole lot of scientists alive for a very long time, and it's involving a lot of US containers. (Like... at least seven full octocores, probably more.) Is this gonna be as bad as, say, putting an equivalent number of solar panels on my station?

Use these. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118746-1-0-2-Stockalike-TAC-LS-Containers-v0-4-04-05-15

1 2.5m part = 3 kerbal-years of supplies.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Part count is part count (more or less), yes. But 56 US wedges? That seems quite a lot.

I had a vague, stupid hope that they'd done something clever with having one part with, uh... actually, yeah, that would never work. Nevermind. (Like, one part representing the entire thing, but that would be a whole ton of different texture files, and then even worse when some of them can be open and therefor unique... dumb idea on my part. Interesting combinatorics problem, though!)

Use these. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118746-1-0-2-Stockalike-TAC-LS-Containers-v0-4-04-05-15

1 2.5m part = 3 kerbal-years of supplies.

Wish I'd scene those sooner - I just dug into the TAC parts files and changed them to give the same weight-effeciency as KIS parts, but with as much per 2.5 part as 2 full octocores. Feels like a reasonable balance point.

...This is a complete side-rant, but I really want someone to make a better life support mod than TAC, one that actually does the realistic thing with CO2 scrubbers and more focus on reclamation than just storage, and ties more fully into the chemistry of what rocket fuel, oxidizer & monopropellant actually are. (Just finished reading "The Martian", and now I want more chemistry in my space games.)

[Svm420]

...This is a complete side-rant, but I really want someone to make a better life support mod than TAC, one that actually does the realistic thing with CO2 scrubbers and more focus on reclamation than just storage, and ties more fully into the chemistry of what rocket fuel, oxidizer & monopropellant actually are. (Just finished reading "The Martian", and now I want more chemistry in my space games.)

Sounds like you want realfuels and the coming realISRU then

[Daishi]

Question: How is this for memory/framerate? I deleted all the TAC for balance & aesthetic reasons, but now I'm building a Duna station that's gonna need to keep a whole lot of scientists alive for a very long time, and it's involving a lot of US containers. (Like... at least seven full octocores, probably more.) Is this gonna be as bad as, say, putting an equivalent number of solar panels on my station?

Performance in KSP is mostly measured by part-to-node-to-part connections and how they interact with each other (physics calculations in KSP never make proper use of multi-core processors, so there's a bottleneck). US has always been kinda flakey in that regard, something that US2 is going to fix with tweakable, bigger parts. For longer trips outside Kerbin's SOI you might be better off with Sandworm's suggestion, until Universal Storage's sequel is in a usable state

- - - Updated - - -

I had a vague, stupid hope that they'd done something clever with having one part with, uh... actually, yeah, that would never work. Nevermind. (Like, one part representing the entire thing, but that would be a whole ton of different texture files, and then even worse when some of them can be open and therefor unique..

Nope, that's going to happen eventually (in a way). We're rolling out parts that can be expanded up to 4 times (including the octocores) and proper shrouds that enclose things and protect them from heat and aero. (Link to the devblog). We could just have a single part that can cycle through every variant as well as its capacity, but that's at least three dozen options for a single part and that sounds like a recipe for trouble.

The part count thing has always been a worry, and doing this "revision" to the concept of US means we can optimize the mod a heck of a lot

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like you want realfuels and the coming realISRU then

Yeah, that looks fantastic. I'll definitely be using it when it's done.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Daishi

[Sandworm]

I've removed both TweakScale and TweakableEverything and its still exploding due to overheating on 4x warp in atmosphere. Not 100% sure if I needed to create a new ship after removing them (I didn't) to test it?

Updated output: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wycdmficqsel2w/output_log%20-%2003-07.txt?dl=0

New theory (My US cores are exploding again)....

I looked at the cores in flight and noticed they were not exactly overheating. They were in fact flashing between hot and cold very rapidly. It was like the heat 'packets' were too large when hitting a lightweight part. I saw similar flashing a few days ago with Novapunch parts connected via decouplers. When I increased the mass of the US bases the problem went away. At a mass of 5.0, instead of 0.5, the octocore didn't overheat. More importantly, at a mass between 0.5 and 1.0 it would overheat more slowly. Heat capacity is therefore based on mass, which does make some sense. Then I dug through the cfgs for parts that cool things, specifically the aero parts that cool incoming air, and noticed the "thermalMassModifier" attribute. It seems to act as a multiplier for heat capacity bypassing the need to increase part mass.

So try adding this line to the octocore cfg:

" thermalMassModifier = 2"

That should increase the part mass for purposes of heat to 1.0. For the hex I'm using a multiplier of 5. This seems to work but I am still testing. I've been wrong before.

[Torih]

I've tested it with thermalMassModifier = 2 but it still blows, I've increased it too 5 as well with no change.

Just to double check, guessing it doesn't matter where its placed in the config file?

Also if I make changes to that file do I need to reload the game (or just the save) for the figures to apply?

I'm wondering if this is related to an issue with FAR. Or maybe FAR is just amplifying the issue? Are you using it or just stock aero?

[SkyMarshal]

Not sure if this's been reported (if there's an issue tracker, I cannot find it) but the "Invalid value length for Vector3" error in the log (for reference, I am running v1.1.0.6 on KSP 1.0.4 on Win7 x64) can be fixed by changing line 86 of the "US_1C10_Wedge_Quadcore.cfg" file (in the ModuleJettison for "fairing_nodeX") from "jettisonDirection = 0 0" to "jettisonDirection = 0 0 1".

[Paul Kingtiger]

Not sure if this's been reported (if there's an issue tracker, I cannot find it) but the "Invalid value length for Vector3" error in the log (for reference, I am running v1.1.0.6 on KSP 1.0.4 on Win7 x64) can be fixed by changing line 86 of the "US_1C10_Wedge_Quadcore.cfg" file (in the ModuleJettison for "fairing_nodeX") from "jettisonDirection = 0 0" to "jettisonDirection = 0 0 1".

Thanks, that appears to have been a typo on my part. Fixed for the next release.

[Olsson]

I also have the issue with hexacores and quadcores and similar blowing up while timewarping in the atmosphere.

[Daishi]

I also have the issue with hexacores and quadcores and similar blowing up while timewarping in the atmosphere.

Been searching around for more radiator info, and Streetwind gifted me this bit of knowledge...

Drag cubes are computed automatically based on the mesh (I think), but don't represent it. For example, a radiator with a curved shape, like the GR-EXP, has a much bigger radiating ability than its size would suggest, because the curved shape generates a larger drag cube than you would get if you had the same surface area in a flat shape. All stock radiators as well as Heat Control's extensible XR series are also sightly better than they look, because they deploy into a flat zigzap shape instead of being completely flat. You can use the emissiveConstant field in each part config file to tune the exact amount of heat energy radiated at a specific radiator temperature.

You can find the drag cubes of all parts stored in PartDatabase.cfg in the KSP root directory. This file loves breaking horribly whenever you update KSP to a new version, or (somewhat less often) when you update a parts-containing mod to a new version. Parts get wrong drag cubes or lose them entirely, resulting in things like being unable to slow down on reentry or having zero heat emission capability. Because of this, ModuleManager simply deletes this file whenever it detects that something in the installation changed, and you can also delete it by hand if you suspect something is off. It will regenerate automatically on game startup with proper values.

Could you try deleting this file and see what happens? Make backups of your KSP directory first, of course

[Sandworm]

Been searching around for more radiator info, and Streetwind gifted me this bit of knowledge...

Could you try deleting this file and see what happens? Make backups of your KSP directory first, of course

It isn't a drag problem imho. The part isn't building up heat through friction with the air. These explosions can happen in space and are not dependant on airspeed or anything else drag-related. It looks like a proper bug, an error in how Squad implemented heat on small/lightweight parts. Or, more specifically, how Squad intends heat to move from large to small parts (small parts attached to large ones often get hotter than anything they touch). Upping the part's thermal mass solved the problem for me.

[Paul Kingtiger]

It isn't a drag problem imho. The part isn't building up heat through friction with the air. These explosions can happen in space and are not dependant on airspeed or anything else drag-related. It looks like a proper bug, an error in how Squad implemented heat on small/lightweight parts. Or, more specifically, how Squad intends heat to move from large to small parts (small parts attached to large ones often get hotter than anything they touch). Upping the part's thermal mass solved the problem for me.

I've seem several streamers suffer from the exploding parts issue, usually on smaller parts like docking ports. Hopefully Squad will issue a fix soon, although I suspect we might have to wait for 1.1

[Kobymaru]

Performance in KSP is mostly measured by part-to-node-to-part connections and how they interact with each other (physics calculations in KSP never make proper use of multi-core processors, so there's a bottleneck).

There's a very interesting thread going on about KSP's performance problems (1.0 in particular).

Rumor has it that the biggest culprit are actually the ressources and their processing, not the physics: http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/5136

[Daishi]

There's a very interesting thread going on about KSP's performance problems (1.0 in particular).

Rumor has it that the biggest culprit are actually the ressources and their processing, not the physics: http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/5136

Iiinteresting - that's never crossed my mind before. Regarding the numbercrunching, I did notice a big slowdown with the heat system when I started playing 1.0 after 0.25ish. That can't be easy on the game engine either. Roll on Unity 5!

[Atmoz]

Hello world !

Need help (sorry for my bad english)

I can't see the "Universal Storage Food Bag" in my VAB List or my Tech Tree !

I Use a lot of mod and everything seems to work perfectly. (USI, TAC, SETI, ...)

I see a "Universal Storage: Supply Bag" but my "TAC Life Support Build Aid" does not change the value of food (3 d) if i had this, but if i had the "Universal Storage: Water Tank" my quantity of water increase a lot (168 d)

Can someone help me... i need food to my first Minmus trip

Thanks

EDIT: KSP 1.0.4

All mods installed by Ckan

Win7 64

Edited July 12, 2015 by Atmoz