How do you feel about part clipping?

[Felsmak]

The main difficulty with lander designs is due to stability, depending on the CoM height above the ground contact points. By merging your craft vertically, you've improved its performance as a lander above what would be possible without part clipping. It makes for an attractive craft, but it is definitely much easier to fly than the standard vertical Apollo designs that are possible with noclip-KSP.

Aha, I see. I was merely thinking in terms of mass and fuel. But oh, well. I just like having pretty spacecraft.

where do the kerbals sit if theres a tank in their lander can?

Fortunately, the game appears to ignore that problem. But I'm just pretending that they have a proper, built-in tank in there somewhere. Just like the real thing did.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Felsmak

[Red Iron Crown]

The replica builders pretty much have to use clipping, the shape of the design is the most important part.

[Redshift OTF]

I love part clipping except I wouldn't clip fuel tanks into each other. Anything else goes if it improves asthetics and functionality IMO.

[frizzank]

I have had to turn it on a few times to get stack symmetry to place the parts.

[Uncle Mort]

Nope, never do it as I feel I would be cheating. However each to their own.

[Pecan]

Clipping is necessary for beautiful designs.

I don't want a load of crap adorned all over the sides of my craft.

If you find lavatories essential then build somewhere for them and enclose it in fairings ;-0

[cantab]

One counterargument I have come across, and I think it carries weight: How is clipping for a certain aesthetic or performance effect any different from using a mod part for that same effect? Mods, though some are acknowledged as overpowered, generally aren't seen as cheating.

[Red Iron Crown]

One counterargument I have come across, and I think it carries weight: How is clipping for a certain aesthetic or performance effect any different from using a mod part for that same effect? Mods, though some are acknowledged as overpowered, generally aren't seen as cheating.

Mod parts generally aren't physically impossible, heavy part clipping generally is.

Of course, there's a range of part clipping and a range of mod parts, so it's not cut and dried.

[pizzaoverhead]

One counterargument I have come across, and I think it carries weight: How is clipping for a certain aesthetic or performance effect any different from using a mod part for that same effect? Mods, though some are acknowledged as overpowered, generally aren't seen as cheating.

There are many different play styles. A player who is focusing on aesthetics doesn't concern themselves with the process, only the end result. People often build recreations of famous sci-fi craft without worrying about whether they can fly. Focusing entirely on aesthetics, we have single-part reproductions of famous vessels. Others have travel as their goal, and aren't concerned with appearances. The average Eve-return vessel won't win any beauty contests!

It's the same argument we see with MechJeb. People focus on the aspects of the game that appeal to them, and de-emphasise the ones that don't using tools like mods or part clipping. If the idea of running a semi-realistic space program is what appeals to you, you can see how placing a fuel tank through the body of a kerbal would be difficult to rationalise. For this play style, mods are the equivalent of parts from different manufacturers. Mods are "overpowered" if their performance is far enough from what could be physically possible to be immersion breaking. Again, what level of impossibility is acceptable differs from person to person.

When it comes to forum discussion, not everyone is playing by the same game ruleset. But remember: it is a game, a thing for having fun. Play using whatever rules give you the most fun.

[Brotoro]

Some people use parts clipping because they care first and foremost about the aesthetics of the ship. I'm fine with that, but I wouldn't use such ships for normal gameplay.

Clipping that KSP lets me do without having to turn on the Allow Clipping cheat, I'm generally fine with (unless it seems too unrealistic). And any similar clipping, even if it required turning on the cheat, I don't mind (because KSP has a limited selection of parts, but in a real spacecraft you'd have the option of blending parts together).

Some things that strike me as too far-fetched are clipping engines inside of other engines, or clipping air intakes into other air intakes where they couldn't all be physically getting air.

[CalculusWarrior]

I mainly use it for aesthetics, the only real performance increases I tend to use it for are engine clusters. I justify it in my mind by saying that the kerbals are taking a handsaw to their rocket parts and cutting them out so that they'll fit together better.

[Majorjim!]

I never used part clipping until I saw what was possible with it.

Most good looking rockets could not be built without it. I also see a lot of people posting here who use mods and yet say

clipping is cheating.

MJ

Edited April 9, 2014 by Majorjim

[Aragosnat]

The only clipping I would do is with parts that clearly have empty space to shove an object in like the girders. I like shoving in PB-NUK and Sensor Array Computing Nose Cone.

[Frank_G]

I dont like when parts are stacked or placed in layers like wings and intakes for SSTOs where this is often practiced in totally unnecessary manners and in terms of meta-gaming.

However i like to keep things compact, so when a few parts clip a little to fit in, or make the overall looks more aesthetic, then it is totally ok.

[Rainbow-Dashie]

I don't use it on my rockets or planes, unless its just for looks. I won't clip 4 engines on top of each other, but I will clip fuel tanks halfway through another to give it a Soyuz Rocket look. And Ill clip wings into planes slightly to make them look sleeker.

On rovers though, I also only clip for asthetics, but I do it a lot more, my rovers HAVE to look cool

[Zourin]

I won't clip for meta purposes, such as RAM stacking (which I've always seen as an exploit), but I will clip for aesthetic or basic functional purposes, such as the technique for using aero-tails as radial mountings for intakes or engines, or mounting an engine assembly into a wing rather than hang off the end of it. I'll also often rotate-clip things that *should* be internal, such as some batteries and power generators, just for aesthetics.

[Mufasa]

Eh, I don't clip at all because it just makes me feel bad inside. I don't hate on anyone who does clip. Some people are really talented and make beautiful looking rover / planes / rockets by using clipping. But using it to cluster engines or clip fuel tanks just feels wrong. Feels like I'm pulling out the debug menu and just turning on infinite fuel.

So for me personally I don't use mods and have a strict no-clipping policy when it comes to actually achieving things in game. However if I'm doing stupid stuff in Sandbox mode, nothing wrong with a bit of fun

[Joonatan1998]

Using the Telus mobility enchancers without clipping them into something is nearly impossible.

[NeoMorph]

I used to use part clipping all the time... but since 21 I haven't for some reason.

I used to use it to make engine clusters but because there are alternatives now I don't. I just have a whole lot of mod engines that do the trick (KW and Soyuz and Kosmos).

[problemecium]

In order to not spoil myself, I never turn on the part clipping debug cheat. But sometimes I do clip parts anyway by waving them around and playing with symmetry until the game forgets to not let me put them places. It feels more legit xD

Also this kind of clipping generally still has limitations that the clipping setting doesn't have, which I feel keeps the ships from being too cheaty or structurally unsound.

[Twreed87]

I never, ever turn on part clipping in the debug menu, but if a part will appear to clip on it's own, that's fine by me. Turning it on in the debug menu, to me, is no different than using any other option there. Might as well hack gravity or give infinite fuel!

That said, I do have separate save files I use for cheating like that, just to do wacky things. Infinite fuel on an SRB straight outta the solar system, sure why not? Although oddly I still don't use part clipping there, I think it just looks weird.

I remember I'd taken a break from the forums for a while, and when I came back I was looking through a thread of pictures of people's rocket designs and I was looking for inspiration. But every single one I kept seeing was full of part clipping! I'd see a bunch of fuel tanks and engines clipped halfway inside each other, and just think YOU CANT DO THAT!!! I mean, come on, I don't think there is a more basic rule of physics than two objects can't occupy the same space.

[Frank_G]

I never, ever turn on part clipping in the debug menu, but if a part will appear to clip on it's own, that's fine by me. Turning it on in the debug menu, to me, is no different than using any other option there. Might as well hack gravity or give infinite fuel!.....

Yes, i totally agree on that one. No cheat menu. When the editor allows clipping it is ok.

[Felsmak]

I mean, come on, I don't think there is a more basic rule of physics than two objects can't occupy the same space.

I mostly use my imagination and pretend that the whole thing was built that way. You only see what's on the outside, after all.

[Boomerang]

These sorts of threads are always a bit silly in my mind, since it is a singleplayer game (a fact I'm terribly grateful for).

But I suppose I'll toss in my two cents, just because so many people seem to have a moral fear of using clipping. While I agree that clipping fuel tanks inside of each other or doubling up on engines does feel cheat-y and very often results in weird textures where the clipped parts show through each other, I've got no problem turning on the debug clipping setting at the start of a build session for the sake of making things fit nicely together or to streamline a design.

Also, to the point about two objects not occupying the same space - This is much more an (understandable) limitation of the game and the parts we're given. Real world fuel tanks aren't giant cylinders filled with nothing but fuel. You can have spherical tanks of compressed gases or what have you and still have empty space for batteries, electronics, what have you.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Boomerang

[Red Iron Crown]

These sorts of threads are always a bit silly in my mind, since it is a singleplayer game (a fact I'm terribly grateful for).

It's just discussing play style, I don't think anyone in the thread is griefing anyone else for how they play. I always find it interested to read how other players play, even if it's different from my play style.