[.24.2] DISCONTINUED July-27- Asteroid Cities V2.0

[Captain Sierra]

Its UP! Kethane and Ore should now be there, too. Would someone try it out? The scanner should work as well.

I'll go ahead and test it. It won't overwrite any of the original versions will it? I hope not, because I have yet to test my custom ECLSS variations.

[dtobi]

The original versions? It will overwrite all Asteroid Cities files if that

s what you mean.

[RoverDude]

It would be my pleasure but I'll need to sleep a bit. ... try the mod and if you see your stuff fits its look and feel, we can combine the two.

Good deal - will ping you offline. I think the two will make a nice fit.

[CaptRobau]

This is genius. Can't wait to try it out. Those parts are gorgeous.

[G'th]

I hate you man. Now I have to integrate an asteroid into my Duna mission >.<

But no seriously, I hate you, because this is awesome. <3

[Cypherwraith]

This. This is a great idea. However, now I have to go out and wrangle some asteroids for my new chain of interplanetary refueling stations ("Dock 'n' Dash". It's gonna be huge). It's definitely worth the effort, though.

Do I need TAC for this to work? I'm not planning on using the greenhouse, I just want to know whether the fuel refinery will work or not.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Cypherwraith
Added minor detail

[Taki117]

*grabs shoehorn* lets do this. *downloads*

[phoenix_ca]

This. This is a great idea. However, now I have to go out and wrangle some asteroids for my new chain of interplanetary refueling stations ("Dock 'n' Dash". It's gonna be huge). It's definitely worth the effort, though.

Do I need TAC for this to work? I'm not planning on using the greenhouse, I just want to know whether the fuel refinery will work or not.

The refinery uses the stock ModuleGenerator to work, so safe to say yes, it'll work.

[Sandworm]

Issue: Very cool mod, but I'm having issues with the probe-sized claw. It animated, but doesn't want to attach to the rock.

Potential source: I'm using moduelmanager 2.1.0, not the 1.5.7 that came with the pack. Might that be the problem?

[Lightwarrior]

Resource definition file seems to be exact copy of TACLS resource definition file, so if i have TACLS installed i do not need it, right?

Awesome idea/models BTW.

[PTTG]

Issue: Very cool mod, but I'm having issues with the probe-sized claw. It animated, but doesn't want to attach to the rock.

Potential source: I'm using moduelmanager 2.1.0, not the 1.5.7 that came with the pack. Might that be the problem?

I am seeing the same issue with the probe-claw. I have modulemanager 2.0.8. I also have several other mods, the most relevant of which might be KAS, Kethane, maybe Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. Also possibly relevant, I don't have TAC, so I removed references to TAC resources from Resources and deleted the refinery and greenhouse.

I'm going to try to reproduce this issue in a clean version.

----

OK, I installed a clean version of KSP and then added Hyperedit (for testing purposes), and a clean copy of Asteroid Cities. Using Modue Manager 1.5.7 (from the asteroid cities zip), KSP .23.5, standalone version (that is, not the steam version) x64.

To reproduce the issue, I built a very small craft with the Philly Asteroid Analyzer and used hyperedit and short-range manuvering to position the craft nearby. I then armed the PAA, and attempted to dock with the asteroid. The PAA did not engage when in contact with the asteroid. I repeated this test about twenty times with different angles, speeds, and rotations with no change in behavior.

Additional notes: The PAA appeared to enter an odd state: as soon as I armed the claw, the option to "release" and "analyze" appeared on the context menu for the claw, despite the claw not having anything engaged. The option to "free piviot" was also present, but did not appear to do anything initially.

I was able to verify that asteroids contain 1000 water by default. I used a C-class asteroid in both my modded test and my clean test.

I've verified that at 2.5 AGU works fine.

----

Other than working in QA, I have to say, I've been LOVING this concept. I'd like to know what changes would be needed to remove TAC resources and have it work with just Kethane and Extraplanetary Launchpads.

Edited May 12, 2014 by PTTG

[dtobi]

I am seeing the same issue with the probe-claw. ...

a) Could you post pictures of your vessel and your grabbing attempts?

Did you attach stuff below the Klaw? There is a node and you can attach some flat things - but not too much.

c) Have you tried to grab very slowly? That worked for me always.

[Lightwarrior]

Tested it a bit and first of all - conversion ratios are badly wrong. Converting water to LFO almost tripples its mass. Conversion rate is also way, way too high. It should be similar to TCLS recyclers rates. And this will probavly require plugin, because stock ModuleGenerator is really bad for this purpose, at least because it will continue to consume resources even when there is no space for LFO and/or not all required resources are available.

[PTTG]

a) Could you post pictures of your vessel and your grabbing attempts?

Did you attach stuff below the Klaw? There is a node and you can attach some flat things - but not too much.

c) Have you tried to grab very slowly? That worked for me always.

I'll give B a try in the morning and I'll let you know what I find out. I'll also include my test crafts. Both tests had the PAA on top of a small rocket (basically a probe core, fuel tank, rocket setup of one form or another, in each case, there was nothing between the PAA and the asteroid).

For point C, I've tried speeds from 0.1 m/s to 50.

[dtobi]

Tested it a bit and first of all - conversion ratios are badly wrong. Converting water to LFO almost tripples its mass. Conversion rate is also way, way too high. It should be similar to TCLS recyclers rates. And this will probavly require plugin, because stock ModuleGenerator is really bad for this purpose, at least because it will continue to consume resources even when there is no space for LFO and/or not all required resources are available.

I am open for suggestions regarding conversion rates. However, it will be a bit of work before I can dump ModuleGenerator.

[acc]

I am open for suggestions regarding conversion rates. However, it will be a bit of work before I can dump ModuleGenerator.

Guess someone already made a replacement for the stock ModuleGenerator. Just can't remember who.

The parts looking great. I'll try it soon.

[CaptainKipard]

Kerbals eat hydrogen, apparently. It'd make more sense if you did it like this guy.

[Lightwarrior]

I am open for suggestions regarding conversion rates. However, it will be a bit of work before I can dump ModuleGenerator.

Main problem which need to be fixed IMO is the fact that water electrolysis and whatever process happens in the greenhouse changes total vessel mass. This should not happen. In its current state electrolyzer is very-very "overpowered", because you can take water instead of fuel, and it will be almost 3 times lighter than the fuel which will be produced.

Second - realistically electrolysis will produce 1/8 hydrogen/oxygen ratio by mass, if i am correct. So it will be a lot more oxidizer/oxygen then LF/hydrogen. Excess oxygen then can be used for life support for example.

As for rates... electrolysis rate does not really matter IMO, it probably can be done fast if there is a lot of power. But greenhouse IMO should be designed to be able to support certain number of kerbals while it has all required resources. 6 for example. It will mean 6 "units" of food produced per day, with some water and probably CO2 consumed and some oxygen produced addidtionaly.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Lightwarrior

[Azimech]

Downloading now *presses link repeatedly* *not regretting the extreme numbers of downloads that ensue* *decides to install them all* *waits five hours as they all paste over each other*

Funniest thing I've read all day!

[dtobi]

Ok... First of all, thanks for all the feedback.

Second, some thoughts: a) I'll go and fix the conversion so that it does not generate any additional mass. I'll also make sure that scanning does not increase the mass of the asteroid (I did not care for this in this initial release). So there will be no "magic" resource creation. I might also write ym onw resource module to compensate for ModuleGenerator's crappyness.

However,... this mod should be fun to play with so I will not implement a slow resource generation scheme (even if its more realistic) to mimic real systems. Why not? I think its useless to force people to time warp for minutes just to fill a tank. I hate resource systems that make me do that. I believe eveyone knows how to time warp, so there is no challenge or fun in that.

Also I don't want to implement a system that works while the ship is not focused (e.g., greenhouse that produces exactly the amount of food for the kerbals onboard). It would be cool but it is too complicated. There are too many unknowns. Is there electricity while the ship is not focused? Is it in the shadow? How many kerbals are consuming resources? Are any containers full? ... You have to simulate the whole vessel and its environment. I don't want to do this, sorry.

So I hope you understand that this mod will be more on the fun and gameplay side than on the 100% accurate simulation side. I tried to make it somewhat challenging by making the refinery quite heavy and by requiring quite some electricity. I might require even more electricity, though.

I hope people still like this mod.

Edited May 12, 2014 by dtobi

[dtobi]

So is everyone having trouble with the 0.65 m Klaw or has someone managed to grab something with it. For me, it works fine when I go slow.

EDIT: Just tried it again and it still works fine.

Edited May 12, 2014 by dtobi

[dtobi]

Guess someone already made a replacement for the stock ModuleGenerator. Just can't remember who.

The parts looking great. I'll try it soon.

I searched for it but no luck here. If you remember the name, please tell me!

[4nxs]

Well I haven't had the time to play it yet, but the direction you want to take the mod seems reasonable to me. I use TAC LS so the fact that I can so the asteroids for that is nice and make the missions to them more... versatile?

I like the fact you are creating things we can use to do something on/with the asteroid. Be that resource conversation, sure that is cool, but like you say I don't want to micromanage them.

Alright typing this has made me want to test it out, less sleep, more KSP! Will edit later.

[dtobi]

A new update is out....

a) Now, the mass of the asteroid stays constant after analysis. The asteroid gets lighter by the amount of resources found.

Resource conversion now takes into account masses better. Mass increase is not possible any more. Things became a bit less efficient by this.

c) Increased resources that are detected by analysis to make up for the reduced efficiency (. Now upto a third of the asteroid is water.

And yes: please post pictures of your asteroid cities here. People who followed SSE know that I am super happy anytime I see a craft that contains some of my parts. Let me see your cities!

Edited May 12, 2014 by dtobi

[ahappydude]

What about a commandpod that acts like a kerbalhousing?