Solar FREAKIN' roadways discussion

[Javster]

Yes! Give it to me now! I want it! It's cool!

Also, what they're doing (starting in small areas) is great, because as they said, it will slowly spread.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Javster

[Seret]

I don't see how embedding the panels in the roadway itself has any advantages over mounting them alongside or over it.

It's inefficient at collecting solar power (better to use the money on a dedicated plant) and it's inefficient at improving road safety (remove the driver instead).

What I suggest is that people just ignore that shouty "solar freakin roadways" video and go read the inventor's site. Many of the questions people are raising here are at least partially addressed in the FAQ. In particular you should note that the problem the inventor is trying to solve isn't the easiest, cheapest or best way to generate electricity, it's how to fund road maintenance in the USA. The point of the invention is to try and create a road surface material that is an asset instead of a cost.

[vger]

One of the things they're not sure of in the FAQ is another big thing that's been going through my head. What the heck will this do to utilities?

Roads are government owned. Power is private sector. If this takes off, it's going to get ugly.

[phoenix_ca]

Wait what? Is the power utility completely private in the States? Up here it's still largely public.

[Red Iron Crown]

It's a mix where I live in Canada. Generation is through a publicly-owned corporation, transmission and distribution has been privatized.

[kahlzun]

the amount of rubber that gets put on the roads through normal driving (not to mention oil leaks, burnouts etc) would swiftly blacken the road past efficiency.

[pxi]

Thunderf00t's new video:

[phoenix_ca]

BAH! You obviously think the earth is flat. Or are and agent of OPEC. Gotta be. Clearly.

[vger]

Wait what? Is the power utility completely private in the States? Up here it's still largely public.

Not completely, but there's certainly enough to make a stink. Additionally, though there are more public utility companies than private, the private ones supply the majority of the power.

[Seret]

Roads are government owned. Power is private sector. If this takes off, it's going to get ugly.

Interesting point. This is probably another reason why they seem to initially be targeting parking rather than roads.

The other bit that doesn't seem well explained is their "cable corridor". Would this be taken from the existing road (effectively making the road slightly narrower) or is he suggesting they somehow purchase a strip adjacent to the road? Can't see either option being popular.

[Aghanim]

Thunderf00t creates another video:

It will be highly appreciated if someone do a real demonstration of this solar roadways thingy. Either the skeptics or the supporters.

EDIT: After watching Thunderf00t videos, Youtube suggest me this:

The Amazing Atheist Popular channel you might like

[phoenix_ca]

Thunderf00t creates another video:

It will be highly appreciated if someone do a real demonstration of this solar roadways thingy. Either the skeptics or the supporters.

EDIT: After watching Thunderf00t videos, Youtube suggest me this:

The Amazing Atheist Popular channel you might like

Yes, because he has a 40+ part series called "Why people laugh at creationists".

[magnemoe]

the amount of rubber that gets put on the roads through normal driving (not to mention oil leaks, burnouts etc) would swiftly blacken the road past efficiency.

You have another effect, even if you only use them places where nobody uses tires with spikes against iced roads you tend to stuck gravel in the tires groves from driving on dirt roads and driveways.

Anybody who have changed tires have seen them.

More fun, imagine an oil spill on wet glass, pretty much the definition of a low friction surface lower friction than ice with water on top

[revkev]

What I suggest is that people just ignore that shouty "solar freakin roadways" video and go read (some bull hockey)

I'm active for KSP in other places but I registered for this forum just because I hate bad science that much.

Repeat after me:

THE SOLAR ROADWAYS GUY IS AN IDIOT.

THE SOLAR ROADWAYS GUY DEFRAUDED THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND ITS PEOPLE OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

SCIENCE ILLITERACY IS KILLING AMERICA.

Thunderfoot is an actively working materials scientist- it is quite literally his job (when he's not doing YouTube) to do tests on materials. Even if you don't like any of Tfoot's other stuff, this is one series where the guy is absolutely qualified to speak on this subject and for-real know what he's saying.

In Thunderfoot's videos he demonstrates experiments an 8-year-old can do, to show what a horrible idea solar roadways are. Experiments a grown person should have done before trying to raise millions of dollars on Kickstarter. The surface is hard? Well it's also brittle, a handful of dirt will turn a glass roadway into a mess in a single day of light traffic. How can you test that? Grab a piece of glass of similar hardness to what they're promising, drop some dirt on it, and rub away. Whoops, I guess this whole idea is moronic.

"B-but he's just trying to do something nice."

No he's not. That idiot made MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SPEWING NONSENSE. He is not properly informed on the things he's commenting about, and his lunacy has not only cost people quite a lot of money, but there's been an immeasurably higher cost done by the damage to the public understanding of science by this and "thorium cars" and other baloney. The refusal of the media or of people of good sense to stomp on this idiocy is hurting us all dearly.

Don't let the solar roadways guy fool you- he's a moron trying to use science-sounding words to make money.

Don't tolerate any fools who let snake-oil salesman like the solar roadways guy get away with his verbal hoodoo. It's not cool, and we must not tolerate it.

"Our consciousness exists as irrational acceptance; non-judgment is mirrored in your own destiny."

-Is this a deep quote, or random nonsense generated by wisdomofchopra.com?

[Aghanim]

@revkev: Really? I prefer EEVblog rants over Tfoot, thanks

[pizzaoverhead]

Interesting point. This is probably another reason why they seem to initially be targeting parking rather than roads.

Meanwhile, today:

They can be added to existing facilities easily, don't have the wear and traction issues with being the load-bearing road surface, can be angled for higher efficiency, and keep vehicles cool in summer, reducing the fuel oil cost required for air conditioning. Mounting panels on the roofs of buildings offers similar benefits. The best part is that this is something you can go and do today, no additional research and development required.

[Seret]

They can be added to existing facilities easily, don't have the wear and traction issues with being the load-bearing road surface, can be angled for higher efficiency, and keep vehicles cool in summer, reducing the fuel oil cost required for air conditioning. Mounting panels on the roofs of buildings offers similar benefits. The best part is that this is something you can go and do today, no additional research and development required.

[Nibb31]

Roads are usually made of concrete or asphalt, which is basically a mix of gravel and tar. The tar used for roads is basically a low-value waste from oil refining and other stuff mixed in (used tires...). In other words, this stuff is cheap and easy to lay. You just heat it up and pour it.

It also tends to be slightly flexible so it can withstand temperature variations, granulous enough to evacuate water, and sticky enough to provide good adherence. You can also vary the granularity and the quality of the asphalt surface depending on the climate and the usage of the road.

If you were to replace roads with solar power units, you would have to find other ways of recycling or processing the waste that is used to make asphalt. I'd rather see tires ground and melted to be reused as a road surface rather than incinerated.

I really don't see how you could make roads any cheaper or any better by building them with standardized glass, electronic components, connectors and solar cells. You would still need to lay these tiles on a prepared surface (typically stones, gravel, and sand) so you are still going to need the massive roadwork machinery that macadam roads use.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Nibb31

[shynung]

I really don't see how you could make roads any cheaper or any better by building them with standardized glass, electronic components, connectors and solar cells. You would still need to lay these tiles on a prepared surface (typically stones, gravel, and sand) so you are still going to need the massive roadwork machinery that macadam roads use.

I believe the inventor's intent was to offset the paneling costs with electricity generated by the panels. How effective that would be, however, is beyond my understanding.

[Seret]

In other words, this stuff is cheap and easy to lay. You just heat it up and pour it.

Roads are actually surprisingly expensive. A mile of road costs between £10-30million in the UK depending on width, the US seems to do it a lot cheaper at about $2-3million per mile.

I really don't see how you could make roads any cheaper or any better by building them with standardized glass, electronic components, connectors and solar cells. You would still need to lay these tiles on a prepared surface (typically stones, gravel, and sand) so you are still going to need the massive roadwork machinery that macadam roads use.

Initial capital cost is one thing, but if you're talking about something that generates electricity you need to look at the lifecycle costs after you factor in income from generation. A solar roadway would undoubtedly have higher up-front costs, but if it generates enough to cover the difference plus O&M and your discount rate then you've got a viable product.

[magnemoe]

Roads are usually made of concrete or asphalt, which is basically a mix of gravel and tar. The tar used for roads is basically a low-value waste from oil refining and other stuff mixed in (used tires...). In other words, this stuff is cheap and easy to lay. You just heat it up and pour it.

It also tends to be slightly flexible so it can withstand temperature variations, granulous enough to evacuate water, and sticky enough to provide good adherence. You can also vary the granularity and the quality of the asphalt surface depending on the climate and the usage of the road.

If you were to replace roads with solar power units, you would have to find other ways of recycling or processing the waste that is used to make asphalt. I'd rather see tires ground and melted to be reused as a road surface rather than incinerated.

I really don't see how you could make roads any cheaper or any better by building them with standardized glass, electronic components, connectors and solar cells. You would still need to lay these tiles on a prepared surface (typically stones, gravel, and sand) so you are still going to need the massive roadwork machinery that macadam roads use.

More fun is that then your refurbish roads you heat and grind up the old asphalt and just add a bit more asphalt before putting it down again.

You can do repairs even emergency repairs simple.

Concrete is mostly used on very heavy used roads, today they often put asphalt on top of the concrete anyway as its far simpler to repair then worn out. yes it wears out in 1-2 years instead of 10 years but can be refurbish in a night, reparing an worn down concrete road is a major undertaking.

[rtxoff]

Because it's all over the news again here's some debunking:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by Vanamonde
Spoilered for some language.

[RainDreamer]

I don't see why it has to be on a road. The same technology can be put on buildings walls, roof, or any other surface, for likely much more efficiency. Hell, even if it is possible, a day with traffic jam would reduce the output significantly due to the shades of all the vehicles covering the road. The thing can be used for some fancy walkways at a high tech building, probably, but I doubt widespread application.

[Spaceception]

I think it's worth it, but instead of embedding solar cells into the road, how about you build a canopy of solar panels above the road? Where you not only have plenty of power for both lights and digital speed limit signs, but also for extra power for the city or town that the road is near.

[Shpaget]

3 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

I think it's worth it, but instead of embedding solar cells into the road, how about you build a canopy of solar panels above the road? 

That's the whole point of the debunking videos Dave made.

Placing the cells in the road is just stupid.