[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[Darth Lazarus]

hey beale.

i have a favor to ask. could you give me the numbers you used for the length of your ALV rocket and maybe the source of it, please? i did some calculating myself and i want to compare our results

Edited September 26, 2014 by Darth Lazarus

[Wyrmshadow]

I don't have the patience to go through 153 pages but I'm sure this has been asked for before... I wish these parts scaled with other mods. They are sooo tiny and 3 kerbals couldn't possible fit in some of these compared to other 3 man capsules. I'm also using HGR and the difference is massive considering both mods are nearly the same subject. But that's the author's decision.

[Niemand303]

7K-M1 reporting in for duties!

Those third stage verniers are awesome for precision burns!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

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BTW, I've fixed the texture switcher config (keeping the same file structure , thus the name of the folder will be different if not upgrading). I'll be able to upload it this evening but I guess Beale will fix that sooner, anyway, I'll do it.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Niemand303

[The14th]

Those third stage verniers are awesome for precision burns!

This. I had so much fun last night. There was no way I could wait until the weekend to try this out.

Nice album by the way

[Beale]

Thanks for the fixes!

Spooling effect is essentially the same as in jet engines. For example, this is from KW Maverick V config:

useEngineResponseTime = True
engineAccelerationSpeed = 0.70
engineDecelerationSpeed = 0.80

Of course, that should be coupled with and tuned to some cool sounds.

The effect itself is purely cosmetic (although, it can pose problems in the space - that's why KW has spooling only on first stage engines), but it gives a magnificent lift-off instead of jump.

Hey, seems easy enough to add, I'll get on it

hey beale.

i have a favor to ask. could you give me the numbers you used for the length of your ALV rocket and maybe the source of it, please? i did some calculating myself and i want to compare our results

Sure:

Stage1 9.4m

Stage2 Engine 0.925m

Stage2 Tank 5.7m

Stage3 Engine 0.925m

Stage3 Tank 3.4m

Hope this helps

I don't have the patience to go through 153 pages but I'm sure this has been asked for before... I wish these parts scaled with other mods. They are sooo tiny and 3 kerbals couldn't possible fit in some of these compared to other 3 man capsules. I'm also using HGR and the difference is massive considering both mods are nearly the same subject. But that's the author's decision.

They can possibly fit into the pods, the IVA proves this

In the stock 3 man pod, they have an awful lot of extra space.

But, I see where you are coming from, the pods are rather small, but that's how they've been designed and balanced from the ground up.

I think the parts in general scale with stock fairly well at least, The Soyuz capsule is the same size as the Mk1 pod, the LK capsule similar to the small lander can.

In the future I could look at re-scale configs again.

Of course, if you have your own, I'd be happy to link it on the front page

7K-M1 reporting in for duties!

Those third stage verniers are awesome for precision burns!

http://imgur.com/a/MFb0J

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BTW, I've fixed the texture switcher config (keeping the same file structure , thus the name of the folder will be different if not upgrading). I'll be able to upload it this evening but I guess Beale will fix that sooner, anyway, I'll do it.

Sweet Zond! I'm glad the Proton is being found useful!

This. I had so much fun last night. There was no way I could wait until the weekend to try this out.

Nice album by the way

Hehe, glad people like it!

Really enjoying the new lifter, yet another well done set of parts!

Have a question/request. While doing a couple test flights tonight, there was 2 instances (pictured below) that I wondered "Hmm, these proc fairings would look awesome in Beale Grey."

1) Yes, I really did dub it Beale Grey.

2) Is making one or two shapes for Proc Fairings, something you might be interested in doing down the line?

http://imgur.com/a/67d2j

I do have some alt. fairing textures, just figuring out how to make them a separate part

Expect some "Beale" grey fairings soon (It's just grey 55 to be honest)

Edited September 26, 2014 by Beale

[Darth Lazarus]

Sure:

Stage1 9.4m

Stage2 Engine 0.925m

Stage2 Tank 5.7m

Stage3 Engine 0.925m

Stage3 Tank 3.4m

Hope this helps

hrmmm .. that is strange, very strange. i see that you used the 60% scale to get the numbers but i've got different ...

my numbers (overall length of tank with engines):

Stage 1: 12.72m

Stage 2: 8.4m

Stage 3: 3.4m

as you can see, our third stage is the same, but the numbers get different for the rest. i used this pages has reference (and compared it with others too) -> click me for juice <-

so the diameter of the Proton core is 4.2, with 60% scale it goes down to 2,52 ... perfect for the 2,5m tanksize. scaleing down the rest of the numbers goes the smae way and i got the number shown above. which source did you use beale?

and more important: i messeaured your tanksize ingame of your ALV and i noticed that every tank is too long... did you made a mistake maybe? even if i use your numbers, the tank size is still wrong. i can't understand how you got your tanklength in the game

on the other hand, it's a good example for kerbal engeniering: in need of bigger rockets - they made BIG rockets and your ALV looks so awesome with proc.-fairings

Edited September 26, 2014 by Darth Lazarus

[johnwayne1930]

BTW, I've fixed the texture switcher config (keeping the same file structure , thus the name of the folder will be different if not upgrading). I'll be able to upload it this evening but I guess Beale will fix that sooner, anyway, I'll do it.

The working config for the current version should be already available via OP.

[Beale]

hrmmm .. that is strange, very strange. i see that you used the 60% scale to get the numbers but i've got different ...

my numbers (overall length of tank with engines):

Stage 1: 12.72m

Stage 2: 8.4m

Stage 3: 3.4m

as you can see, our third stage is the same, but the numbers get different for the rest. i used this pages has reference (and compared it with others too) -> click me for juice <-

so the diameter of the Proton core is 4.2, with 60% scale it goes down to 2,52 ... perfect for the 2,5m tanksize. scaleing down the rest of the numbers goes the smae way and i got the number shown above. which source did you use beale?

and more important: i messeaured your tanksize ingame of your ALV and i noticed that every tank is too long... did you made a mistake maybe? even if i use your numbers, the tank size is still wrong. i can't understand how you got your tanklength in the game

on the other hand, it's a good example for kerbal engeniering: in need of bigger rockets - they made BIG rockets and your ALV looks so awesome with proc.-fairings

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

and more important: i messeaured your tanksize ingame of your ALV and i noticed that every tank is too long... did you made a mistake maybe? even if i use your numbers, the tank size is still wrong. i can't understand how you got your tanklength in the game

If the correct length of the first stage is 12.72m, how can my 9.4m first stage be too long?

Edit: Hmm, actually I was referencing model scale earlier... the correct size is (9.4*1.25) 11.75m in length, still shorter than 12.72m

2nd tank is 7.125m

3rd tank is 4.25m

You might have made a mistake on sourcing 4.2m as the diameter? Does that include the side tanks?

Sorry for the confusion

Edited September 26, 2014 by Beale

[Darth Lazarus]

dont be sorry for confusion, we try to solve a problem with numbers

but yeah my text is a bit confusing, sry Beale

the real diameter of the Proton-Core of the first stage, secondstage and thirdstage is 4.2 meters (total diameter of the first stage with sidetanks is 7.4m). to get a good kerbalscale, i used the 2.5m tanksize as base. this results in a 60% scale. this means, every part in the game has to be only 60% the size of the real world parts.

taking the numbers from the reference, i got my numbers for the overall length of each stage as shown earlier.

what i mean is this:

i took my stock proton and used it as reference. with some work i got a really good stock replica with the 60% scale compared to the real word Proton. then i took your ALV and compared both rockets. your ALV is still longer then my stock Proton. BUT you used smaller numbers then me to get your size. thats the confusing point. and if the tank has a diameter of 2.5m, why is your thrid stage tank nearly double as long as the diameter? that would be over 5 meters then 3.4

for measurments:

i use the modular grider segment wich is roughly 1.2m in length. (compared with the 1.25m tanks). stacking these grider segments gives me a possibilty to use it as some kind of tape measure.

[Beale]

dont be sorry for confusion, we try to solve a problem with numbers

but yeah my text is a bit confusing, sry Beale

the real diameter of the Proton-Core of the first stage, secondstage and thirdstage is 4.2 meters (total diameter of the first stage with sidetanks is 7.4m). to get a good kerbalscale, i used the 2.5m tanksize as base. this results in a 60% scale. this means, every part in the game has to be only 60% the size of the real world parts.

taking the numbers from the reference, i got my numbers for the overall length of each stage as shown earlier.

what i mean is this:

i took my stock proton and used it as reference. with some work i got a really good stock replica with the 60% scale compared to the real word Proton. then i took your ALV and compared both rockets. your ALV is still longer then my stock Proton. BUT you used smaller numbers then me to get your size. thats the confusing point. and if the tank has a diameter of 2.5m, why is your thrid stage tank nearly double as long as the diameter? that would be over 5 meters then 3.4

for measurments:

i use the modular grider segment wich is roughly 1.2m in length. (compared with the 1.25m tanks). stacking these grider segments gives me a possibilty to use it as some kind of tape measure.

Model scale is only 2M in diameter.

Here, you can see the 3.4M Y, to roughly 2M X and Z (Sans pipes).

The modular girder segment, not clear how "big" it really is as we are comparing two different world-scales here.

Hope this makes my sizing more clear.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Beale

[Darth Lazarus]

okay ... this is realy strange now. if you type the numbers into your editor ... but the size in gamefeels so different for me. i honestly don't know whats going on and why i get so confused now with your rocketpartsize

edit: ehm Beale... without the engines and decouplers. only Block A + B + C ... your ALV has exactly the same size as my Proton.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Darth Lazarus

[wasmic]

okay ... this is realy strange now. if you type the numbers into your editor ... but the size in gamefeels so different for me. i honestly don't know whats going on and why i get so confused now with your rocketpartsize

edit: ehm Beale... without the engines and decouplers. only Block A + B + C ... your ALV has exactly the same size as my Proton.

The size in the program is 2m, which gets converted to 2.5m by the game.

[ste1701]

Next launch: Proton with Eve orbiter craft! (crew launched separately)

[Darth Lazarus]

The size in the program is 2m, which gets converted to 2.5m by the game.

thank you, very good to know

well ... for comparision, i did this:

(using this little mod for teh screenshots of the crafts: http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/224287-kronal-vessel-viewer-kvv-exploded-ship-view)

ALV with 27 ton payload, Proton K with Blok D and real life Proton with Salyut 1

edit:

judging after this pic i made, i would say you could reduce the length of the third stagetank by a 1/2 to get the right size.

neverthe less ... it's awesome to see how similar all three rockets look !

Edited September 26, 2014 by Darth Lazarus

[Beale]

Next launch: Proton with Eve orbiter craft! (crew launched separately)

http://i.imgur.com/ev8t7Ql.png

Nice render!

I hope to see the mission

thank you, very good to know

well ... for comparision, i did this:

(using this little mod for teh screenshots of the crafts: http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/224287-kronal-vessel-viewer-kvv-exploded-ship-view)

ALV with 27 ton payload, Proton K with Blok D and real life Proton with Salyut 1

http://i.imgur.com/DMVf0ZH.jpg

Here's the problem I mention earlier.

Most orthographic views I can source disagree on Proton scale (in that image, all the diameters match).

As with the age of the Proton, I wouldn't be surprised if design images for it were subject to the obfuscation seen on earlier Soyuz design images and scales we're intentionally altered (remember we're at the height of the cold war here).

So it's a balancing act, I think for now at least, I'll retain the sizes - see how it looks compared to future launch vehicles (Soyuz, etc.)

Edited September 26, 2014 by Beale

[Darth Lazarus]

Here's the problem I mention earlier.

http://puu.sh/bOEuo/33a3046fd6.jpg

Most orthographic views I can source disagree on Proton scale (in that image, all the diameters match).

So it's a balancing act.

i see now what you mean. it's so hard to find accurate infos about the Proton i would love to see a photo from the assembly of the second stage to the first stage, but cant find one

but i would say: keep your rocket as it is now, it's a very good kerbal version and there are lot's of "realsitic" mods out here for soviet stuff.

edit: and your rocket needs only some parts ... my Proton (without Blok D) has 275 ...

Edited September 26, 2014 by Darth Lazarus

[Cydonian Monk]

100.00% accurate or not, I think it looks nice. Not sure how much use I'll get out of the Block-A, but the Block-B tank looks to be a good alternative to the stock "big orange tank." The upper-stage engines will no doubt see service on various lifters.

The one thing I did notice is the Block-C tank has half as much fuel as I would expect for its length, but that's obviously using stock fuel capacities as a measure. Not neccesarilly a problem, just an observation.

I only really had time for one test flight, but as a system it seemed to work well. Placed my quick and ugly "two stock labs + 2 hitchhikers + stock 3-crew capsule" test mass into orbit without any trouble.

[biohazard15]

i see now what you mean. it's so hard to find accurate infos about the Proton i would love to see a photo from the assembly of the second stage to the first stage, but cant find one

Um... Sorry to ask, but have you tried guys who actually sells them??

[Darth Lazarus]

Um... Sorry to ask, but have you tried guys who actually sells them??

thx, a good site, but no picture from underneath

[XkaOnslaught]

Perhaps if the side tanks on the first stage is wider abit, it would look more proportionate? because right now imo it looks quite.... thin

i have to admit i havent tried the launcher myself, my game keeps crashing to the point i am somewhat frustrated at it right now. (and i have freedom wars to play so....)

[MK3424]

thx, a good site, but no picture from underneath

Ever heard of the IMAX documentary? there is a short fragment showing the Proton rockets.

Here is the documentary:

The fragment starts at +- 9:23.

I hope it helped a bit.

[Beale]

100.00% accurate or not, I think it looks nice. Not sure how much use I'll get out of the Block-A, but the Block-B tank looks to be a good alternative to the stock "big orange tank." The upper-stage engines will no doubt see service on various lifters.

The one thing I did notice is the Block-C tank has half as much fuel as I would expect for its length, but that's obviously using stock fuel capacities as a measure. Not neccesarilly a problem, just an observation.

I only really had time for one test flight, but as a system it seemed to work well. Placed my quick and ugly "two stock labs + 2 hitchhikers + stock 3-crew capsule" test mass into orbit without any trouble.

Nice, thanks for the feedback

Erm, I'll take a look at the fuel amounts, might be worth changing.

Perhaps if the side tanks on the first stage is wider abit, it would look more proportionate? because right now imo it looks quite.... thin

i have to admit i havent tried the launcher myself, my game keeps crashing to the point i am somewhat frustrated at it right now. (and i have freedom wars to play so....)

Hmm, can I ask what mods you are using? Might be a memory issue.

Ever heard of the IMAX documentary? there is a short fragment showing the Proton rockets.

Here is the documentary:

The fragment starts at +- 9:23.

I hope it helped a bit.

Nice documentary!

Thanks

Edited September 26, 2014 by Beale

[Niemand303]

A light Prussian ATV-based crew shuttle "Himmelwagen", used along with Tantares and Alnair ships for my space station. Totally love the new update! Regarding the numbers, I think I really overshot with them. That was about 5000 m/s delta v for a 25 tons payload. So, I guess I shall make numbers 4500 m/s for 15 tons, I guess that would be more fair. Expect them in a couple of hours.

[MK3424]

Nice, thanks for the feedback

Erm, I'll take a look at the fuel amounts, might be worth changing.

Hmm, can I ask what mods you are using? Might be a memory issue.

Nice documentary!

Thanks

I Forgot to type in the title of the documentary: it was "Mission to MIR".

I hope that clarifies why there's only a small fragment showing the Proton boosters.

[Niemand303]

Here are new proposed stats.

I've checked those numbers in Kerbal Engineer, so I hope it would be better. In total, this should give around 1500 m/s dv per stage.

Third stage:

ISP in atmosphere -- 330s

ISP in vacuum -- 360s

Fuel mass -- 8.5 tons

Dry mass -- 1.5 tons

Thrust -- ~350

Second stage:

ISP in atmosphere -- 310s

ISP in vacuum -- 340s

Fuel mass -- 16t

Dry mass -- 2t

Thrust -- ~500

First stage:

ISP in atmosphere -- 290s

ISP in vacuum -- 330s

Fuel mass -- 34t

Dry mass -- 4.5t

Thrust -- ~1600

Edited September 26, 2014 by Niemand303