[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[MOARdV]

The Lower stage of the ALV is generating too much friction and overheats/explodes on launch with heavy payloads usually between 5,000m and 15,000m:

I looked at that. The problem is not friction - the problem is the engines and fuel tank are one piece, and that causes all of the heat from the engines to heat the entire part. Stock engines use a couple of fudge factors to cause them not to heat up so much, but the ALV doesn't have those (and if it did, applied to such a large part, it would be a serious cheat). I'd (reluctantly) recommend the engines be separated from the fuel tank.

One other thing - it looks like KSP 1.0.2 switched the meaning of maxThrust again, and it now is vacuum thrust, not sea level thrust. Tantares LV 9.0 seems to be using SL thrust, which means all (or many) of the engines are underpowered now.

[Gristle]

As a workaround for the wonky parachutes try adding "bodyLiftMultiplier = 0" to all parachute PART{} sections of their config files. Credit for this fix goes to Raidernick.

[curtquarquesso]

Three quick bug reports:

1. Occurs when trying to decouple the LV-T15 attached to D-Block from a procedural interstage. They won't stage at the same time. When I stage, the interstage decouples, but the engine doesn't ignite, and throws the "Cannot activate while stowed" message. If I re-stage the engine, or right-click it and activate from the menu, it ignites no problem. Why it does this is beZond me. Sorry not sorry.

2. Docking probe nodes. Only attaches every one out of four times. It'll snap to the node, but remain red. Sometimes works if you do it really fast. It's definitely the probe, not the Orb. I tried attaching it to other things as well. I think it's SQUAD's "orientation check" code that's throwing a wrench in the work. When I toggled that parameter in debug, problem solved.

3. This weird gap:

4. Confirming Leszek and MDBenson's reports. Chutes come down at odd angles. Likely weird 1.0.2. aero stuff.

Edited May 4, 2015 by curtquarquesso

[Cocox]

Can someone make an MM patch with "bodyLiftMultiplier = 0" for parachutes? The majority of parachutes from mods have the 45 degree angle bug.

[kopapaka]

Long time no see!

Nice lander, is that the OMSK Luna?

Oh yes, more Luna - more sience

Long time...

My april is crazy: writing, writing and... yes writing...

Ehhh, sorry, bad speak

spacecookie: thanks, career and love this parts

Edited May 4, 2015 by kopapaka

[biohazard15]

L'Ariane Beta 2, same 20-ton NRAP.

MJ is buggy here - it doesn't calculate dV after boosters separation.

It is not overpowered now - it's super effective. It can go to the Mun, curcularize there, and then it can go back to Kerbin and circularize there. And it probably can visit Minmus and go back after that. I mean, almost 2500 m\s dV is left in core stage when you've achieved 100x100 orbit!

[biohazard15]

After some tweaking, I got the following numbers.

Tonnerre: thrust 1600, Isp curve 100-305

These numbers make it an excellent early heavy vacuum engine (it should stay in Heavy Rocketry node). It definitely can be used as a lifter engine - you just need boosters to put it high enough.

Boosters: thrust 1350

They are nerfed slightly in order to compensate for Tonnerre's changes.

Flight profile with 20-ton NRAP:

- 1.25 start TWR

- Boosters separate at 8500m

- TWR is around 1.3 after booster separation, making it easier to control

- Around 550 m\s dV is left after achieving 100x100 orbit

[DerpyFirework]

Beale, I got the Kliper (Somewhat) working!

Re-entry test from a 100x100km orbit:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Not entirely sure about the values, but it's progress!

Oh, and the flaps are kind of difficult to attach (Not sure how to fix that).

Link to configs (Survivability not guaranteed)

EDIT: Drag suddenly peaks for no reason sometimes, be careful with it.

EDIT2: Seems that an uncontrolled re-entry is fine, but a controlled one with some pretty sharp turns causes a spike of 16g at around 14km.

EDIT3: So it happens when the control surfaces are almost flat against the airflow. For now, try not to make them do that.

EDIT3: Just changed some values slightly, may or may not fix the drag problem.

Edited May 4, 2015 by DerpyFirework

[CrisK]

Hi Beale & everyone, I've been away for a while. I promised to get the Kliper working in FAR, but then 1.0 came out. I think that it'd be best to wait until nuFAR is released before I create a config file for it.

[biohazard15]

Okay, N-1 with 25-ton NRAP.

MJ numbers are right this time.

I've tweaked blocks A, B and V to 75% thrust. With such numbers, it achieves 100x100 orbit with some fuel left in Block V (not much though - about 200 m\s dV).

[spacecookie]

Hello Beale, just having a little suggest here, have you thought of adding the salyut " ring " we can see here ? http://www.spacefacts.de/graph/salyut/salyut2/salyut-7_1.jpg This part of the station is highly visible , much more than a detail, and could be used as a small SAS Have a great day everybody !

Small edit: another photo that describes well how big this part is http://www.ninfinger.org/models/vault2008/Salyut%201/saliout%204%20integration.jpg I have no idea of his real use, maybe a railing for some scientific devices or a radiator.

Edited May 4, 2015 by spacecookie

[biohazard15]

Hello Beale, just having a little suggest here, have you thought of adding the salyut " ring " we can see here ? http://www.spacefacts.de/graph/salyut/salyut2/salyut-7_1.jpg This part of the station is highly visible , much more than a detail, and could be used as a small SAS Have a great day everybody !

Small edit: another photo that describes well how big this part is http://www.ninfinger.org/models/vault2008/Salyut%201/saliout%204%20integration.jpg I have no idea of his real use, maybe a railing for some scientific devices or a radiator.

This ring is used to hold and rotate the station during assembly. It doesn't go to space

[spacecookie]

Thank you for this info biohazard, that was a huge mistake from me. I think I confused the ring with the cap we can see here http://astronomy.snjr.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2.jpg . Anyway thanks for lightning me !

edit :

CANIOT 1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7or7l8a8ciol7u/caniot%201.craft?dl=0

Requires : tweakscale

turbonisu reloaded

OMSK

surfacelights

Just a little share, I hope you like it

Edited May 4, 2015 by spacecookie

[MDBenson]

2. Docking probe nodes. Only attaches every one out of four times. It'll snap to the node, but remain red. Sometimes works if you do it really fast. It's definitely the probe, not the Orb. I tried attaching it to other things as well. I think it's SQUAD's "orientation check" code that's throwing a wrench in the work. When I toggled that parameter in debug, problem solved. http://i.imgur.com/3ESBo98.png

I can confirm this is an issue I had too. In my case a tiny upward or downward movement tends to get them to attach okay, but it's a bit fiddly.

[Beale]

Hi, a few bugs to report :\

The Lower stage of the ALV is generating too much friction and overheats/explodes on launch with heavy payloads usually between 5,000m and 15,000m:

http://i.imgur.com/3BCNw4r.png

The TK Crew capsule descends under parachute the wrong way round:

http://i.imgur.com/Ew5davq.png

The PP parachute seems to descend capsules at a WEIRD angle:

http://imgur.com/1cj8B8F.png

The Hama Control Block seems to have issues with node/surface position or scale when reloading:

http://i.imgur.com/73MnxJI.png

Also noticed:

• 
  The passive docking ports don't attach right to the 6-way docking node
  The Alnair Cargo module (the one with the sliding doors) won't attach to anything
  The Pol cargo module doesn't burn up in the atmosphere
  

I love your mod and hope these pointers help Usual caveats apply that I'm using a few mods but, apart from RealChutes, I am not sure they'd affect the parts at all.

Thanks for the feedback!

1. Fixed, hopefully.

2. I'll have to play around, not sure what's causing this.

3. Fixed

4. Fixed

6 way node - currently broken and being re-modelled. Looking at the config, it should work, but not sure of the cause.

Cargo module - fixed

Pol re-entry - blame 1.0.2, it burns up fine in 1.0 aero for me.

I have a bug to report as well:

The Gemini parachute causes the capsule to descend on about a 45 degree angle. Just like the pp parachute above. (I am not sure which one that is, I don't think the PP one is Gemini.)

Confirmed, and fixed

I looked at that. The problem is not friction - the problem is the engines and fuel tank are one piece, and that causes all of the heat from the engines to heat the entire part. Stock engines use a couple of fudge factors to cause them not to heat up so much, but the ALV doesn't have those (and if it did, applied to such a large part, it would be a serious cheat). I'd (reluctantly) recommend the engines be separated from the fuel tank.

One other thing - it looks like KSP 1.0.2 switched the meaning of maxThrust again, and it now is vacuum thrust, not sea level thrust. Tantares LV 9.0 seems to be using SL thrust, which means all (or many) of the engines are underpowered now.

For now reduced heat production, I'll look into giving the part a greater heat dissipation.

Thrust values, they've been fixed, are you running the latest version?

Three quick bug reports:

1. Occurs when trying to decouple the LV-T15 attached to D-Block from a procedural interstage. They won't stage at the same time. When I stage, the interstage decouples, but the engine doesn't ignite, and throws the "Cannot activate while stowed" message. If I re-stage the engine, or right-click it and activate from the menu, it ignites no problem. Why it does this is beZond me. Sorry not sorry.

http://i.imgur.com/J7K1Z6V.png

2. Docking probe nodes. Only attaches every one out of four times. It'll snap to the node, but remain red. Sometimes works if you do it really fast. It's definitely the probe, not the Orb. I tried attaching it to other things as well. I think it's SQUAD's "orientation check" code that's throwing a wrench in the work. When I toggled that parameter in debug, problem solved. http://i.imgur.com/3ESBo98.png

3. This weird gap: http://i.imgur.com/vaCckx6.png

4. Confirming Leszek and MDBenson's reports. Chutes come down at odd angles. Likely weird 1.0.2. aero stuff.

Nice Zond!

1. Seems to be stock functionality to prevent things working inside fairings, not sure how I can fix this.

2. It's intentional, a side-effect of the now strictly directional nodes, it might takes a bit of getting used to, but now is much easier to place thin parts.

Try place the docking node a little above where you're putting it and should attach fine.

3. Fixed

4. BodyLiftMultiplier bleh! Fixed

After some tweaking, I got the following numbers.

Tonnerre: thrust 1600, Isp curve 100-305

These numbers make it an excellent early heavy vacuum engine (it should stay in Heavy Rocketry node). It definitely can be used as a lifter engine - you just need boosters to put it high enough.

Boosters: thrust 1350

They are nerfed slightly in order to compensate for Tonnerre's changes.

Flight profile with 20-ton NRAP:

- 1.25 start TWR

- Boosters separate at 8500m

- TWR is around 1.3 after booster separation, making it easier to control

- Around 550 m\s dV is left after achieving 100x100 orbit

After a quick test flight with ATV, flies rather nicely!

Huge thanks for your help in balancing the beast

Beale, I got the Kliper (Somewhat) working!

Re-entry test from a 100x100km orbit:

http://imgur.com/a/KKEXv

Not entirely sure about the values, but it's progress!

Oh, and the flaps are kind of difficult to attach (Not sure how to fix that).

Link to configs (Survivability not guaranteed)

EDIT: Drag suddenly peaks for no reason sometimes, be careful with it.

EDIT2: Seems that an uncontrolled re-entry is fine, but a controlled one with some pretty sharp turns causes a spike of 16g at around 14km.

EDIT3: So it happens when the control surfaces are almost flat against the airflow. For now, try not to make them do that.

EDIT3: Just changed some values slightly, may or may not fix the drag problem.

Very interesting! Potentially!

I'll give it a play with when I can

Hi Beale & everyone, I've been away for a while. I promised to get the Kliper working in FAR, but then 1.0 came out. I think that it'd be best to wait until nuFAR is released before I create a config file for it.

No worries!

Okay, N-1 with 25-ton NRAP.

http://i.imgur.com/uFZAZyD.jpg

MJ numbers are right this time.

I've tweaked blocks A, B and V to 75% thrust. With such numbers, it achieves 100x100 orbit with some fuel left in Block V (not much though - about 200 m\s dV).

Interesting it can only manage 25-tons?

CANIOT 1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7or7l8a8ciol7u/caniot%201.craft?dl=0

http://i.imgur.com/gJmsXm4.png

Requires : tweakscale

turbonisu reloaded

OMSK

surfacelights

Just a little share, I hope you like it

ooh!

Very nice detailing there!

Bug fixes - Keep 'em coming.

I'll try and push out a few of the more important ones A.S.A.P.

Edit: These two fixed.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Beale

[Cheesecake]

The Parachutes T-RP and TK-RC04B has Semi-Depl. Effective Diam: 0 and Fully Depl. Effective Diam: 0.

So they don´t work.

[Beale]

The Parachutes T-RP and TK-RC04B has Semi-Depl. Effective Diam: 0 and Fully Depl. Effective Diam: 0.

So they don´t work.

Where are these values found?

And they're working absolutely fine for me.

[MOARdV]

Thrust values, they've been fixed, are you running the latest version?

D'oh! I missed that update in the midst of all the other things going on this weekend.

[Beale]

D'oh! I missed that update in the midst of all the other things going on this weekend.

No worries, it has been a bit chaotic!

Tantares 25.3

- 04/05/2015

Fixed the bugs listed over the last few pages, including parachutes, node attachment points, scaling and cargo bay issues.

Getting there, folks!

Hey, I have a question:

What's it like to play version 1.0+ ?

I haven't had a chance yet ......

Edited May 4, 2015 by Beale

[biohazard15]

Interesting it can only manage 25-tons?

It's 25-ton NRAP and fully fueled Blok-G, so you can make that almost 40 tons

It can lift up to 50 tons (using Blok-G as 4th stage), but it becomes wobbly with heavy payloads (No KJR installed). I didn't test it in other configurations, though.

[spacecookie]

Hey, I have a question:

What's it like to play version 1.0+ ?

I haven't had a chance yet ......

Like Macklemore would say ... THIS IS F***ING AWESOME !

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I never crafted planes nor shuttles before the 1.0, and it took me hours to succeed, kerbals were harmed.

Proud ouf my kerpolev 144

Edited May 4, 2015 by spacecookie

[MOARdV]

Hey, I have a question:

What's it like to play version 1.0+ ?

It's kind of like this ... Build a ship. Remember that the one really awesome part you need is in a mod that wasn't updated. Go get the old copy of the part and write a MM config so you can use it. Restart the game. Finish building the ship. Wonder if any more game breaking bugs have been found in your mods. Check the forum. Read several other threads you're subscribed to. Realize that your lunch break was over an hour ago. Get back to work. Finish work, check the forums. Remember you needed to flight test your ship. Start KSP. Remember that other really cool part you needed. Check the forum to see if that mod was updated yet. Repeat.

Although maybe that's me. YMMV.

[MrSnappyTurtles]

I am getting a bug where the T-RP return chute opens but does not slow the craft down

Edited May 4, 2015 by Trem Fantasma

[spacecookie]

I am getting a bug where the T-RP return chute opens but does not slow the craft down

Can you detail us a bit more about which parachute and the situation you experienced when trying to open them ? Just trying mine and they seem to work fine and straight

[MrSnappyTurtles]

I said its the T-RP return Chute

And i was doing some LES tests and the chute opens but does not slow the craft down it just keeps going faster