[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[Blacks]

Small cleaning:

In TantaresLV\PLV\ > you have dds & mbm file i gues you was forget to get out mbm

PLV_LFO_A_psd.dds & PLV_LFO_A_psd.mbm

salute

[VenomousRequiem]

The PPTS capsule gave me some ideas for a riff on the "Big Soyuz" concept as a deep space CSM:

http://i.imgur.com/FwwA0oS.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/TIVuIWu.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/zhTHKjc.png?1

Its working name is "Seahawk", because I couldn't think of anything else and "Budgie" didn't seem right.

What are those solar panels from? They look useful!

[Guest]

What are those solar panels from? They look useful!

I lifted them from raidernick's Soyuz pack. With a little help from TweakScale, I've been able to use them quite a bit.

[VenomousRequiem]

I lifted them from raidernick's Soyuz pack. With a little help from TweakScale, I've been able to use them quite a bit.

Oh, okay! Maybe I'll go grab those for my own use!

[curtquarquesso]

how did u do that tiangong ?

how did you build that Tiangong ?

Ok. I still don't get you. What specifically do you want to know? All the parts are clearly visible and identifiable with minimal tricks/clipping.

[kopapaka]

[SuccinctLemon]

Beale, this pack is awesome, but if you want my opinion, you should make IVAs and make capsules change colour when heatshield ablates.

[passinglurker]

Beale, this pack is awesome, but if you want my opinion, you should make IVAs and make capsules change colour when heatshield ablates.

IVA's are a lot of work with minimal benefit the stock placeholder IVA is enough for many people. Not saying he shouldn't make IVA's he already has and will likely continue but there is hardly a need to rush it.

As for capsules changing color we've been over this earlier in the thread it makes stranded kerbals spawn in black pods and makes you launch in black pods if you take the ablator out for any reason. Squad has to change some things on their end before that touch can make a comeback

[Beale]

Small cleaning:

In TantaresLV\PLV\ > you have dds & mbm file i gues you was forget to get out mbm

PLV_LFO_A_psd.dds & PLV_LFO_A_psd.mbm

salute

Good find!

Many thanks.

http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1803/11/11509/11509823_4a07bec57533c466448cb56354add4bc/images/asteroid12.jpg?ver=0

http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1803/11/11509/11509823_4a07bec57533c466448cb56354add4bc/images/asteroid1.jpg?ver=0

Nice! Love the Proton upper stage turned Mining rig.

The PPTS capsule gave me some ideas for a riff on the "Big Soyuz" concept as a deep space CSM:

http://i.imgur.com/FwwA0oS.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/TIVuIWu.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/zhTHKjc.png?1

Its working name is "Seahawk", because I couldn't think of anything else and "Budgie" didn't seem right.

Very pretty!

Beale, this pack is awesome, but if you want my opinion, you should make IVAs and make capsules change colour when heatshield ablates.

What passinglurker said, basically.

Update

I've done a little art pass (while wearing a duck onesie (you needed to know that part) ) to the Black Arrow parts. I'm a little hands full at the moment now, so no time for any big projects (PPTS etc.).

Basically just brings them a little closer to the new Soyuz rocket parts style.

I'd also like to add a little more sensible piping to the engines, as currently (especially on the second stage) isn't very good.

If you can not see a huge difference between these and the old parts, that's probably a good sign!

http://i.imgur.com/hN4RXAB.jpgwhy is the crew in the PPTS module upside down?...

The Kerbals are "upside down" relative to the other set of three Kerbals

But, yeah this is a bug - I'll fix it.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Beale

[passinglurker]

would a 0.9m soviet R5 rocket count as a big project? because I found something interesting on everyone's favorite rocket website

Soviet Suborbital Cabin

basically the soviets original plan was suborbital flights like mercury-redstone to test stuff like the effects on the human body and different reentry methods, but there are no credible drawings for what these suborbital cabins would have looked like so all we know for sure is they would have used the r5 rocket and in real life they ultimately opted to skip to orbital instead so we can use our own interpretations and imaginations about how these suborbital launches would have looked here(in this case a vostok lollipop). It would essentially just be 3 parts a simple shrouded 0.9m engine, a 0.9m fuel tank, and maybe some day tiny triangle control surfaces (stock basic fins would do in the meantime if something has to be cut).

I'm proposing this because the vostok parts you start with essentially make it a 0.9m command pod (only looks good with 0.9m parts or smaller because the size adapter comes later), 0.9m needs some fleshing out this is as good an excuse as any, and giving you a suborbital rocket to assemble at tier 0 goes a long way to patching up ballance holes in the early game especially if you are trying to use tantares parts over stock parts leading to a reasonable progression towards the r7 while still seeming historically plausible.

[davidy12]

Does anyone have a diagram of the Ariane 5 for tantares? PS: Is it just a one stage rocket? (exclude boosters)

Edited September 15, 2015 by davidy12

[VenomousRequiem]

Does anyone have a diagram of the Ariane 5 for tantares? PS: Is it just a one stage rocket? (exclude boosters)

http://andegraf.com/rockets/ariane5.htm

Well here's a diagram of the REAL Ariane 5! The Tantares one isn't supposed to be a single stage, but he hasn't included it's upper stage yet.

Speaking of which, when's that coming?

[Beale]

Does anyone have a diagram of the Ariane 5 for tantares? PS: Is it just a one stage rocket? (exclude boosters)

It's a two stage launcher (or single stage with boosters if you prefer)

There's also an upper stage (or a variety of a few), which I haven't ever made. The Ariane usually carries two payloads over one.

http://andegraf.com/rockets/ariane5.htm

Well here's a diagram of the REAL Ariane 5! The Tantares one isn't supposed to be a single stage, but he hasn't included it's upper stage yet.

Speaking of which, when's that coming?

I'm totally unhappy with the current Ariane, it's ugly ^{ugly ugly}. I never use it, which is a shame because it's a pretty rocket IRL.

It should also be split up a little (control section from tank).

So I'd rather re-do it entirely before making any upper stages

I have been absent from the thread a little, in plumbing land!

would a 0.9m soviet R5 rocket count as a big project? because I found something interesting on everyone's favorite rocket website

Soviet Suborbital Cabin

basically the soviets original plan was suborbital flights like mercury-redstone to test stuff like the effects on the human body and different reentry methods, but there are no credible drawings for what these suborbital cabins would have looked like so all we know for sure is they would have used the r5 rocket and in real life they ultimately opted to skip to orbital instead so we can use our own interpretations and imaginations about how these suborbital launches would have looked here(in this case a vostok lollipop). It would essentially just be 3 parts a simple shrouded 0.9m engine, a 0.9m fuel tank, and maybe some day tiny triangle control surfaces (stock basic fins would do in the meantime if something has to be cut).

I'm proposing this because the vostok parts you start with essentially make it a 0.9m command pod (only looks good with 0.9m parts or smaller because the size adapter comes later), 0.9m needs some fleshing out this is as good an excuse as any, and giving you a suborbital rocket to assemble at tier 0 goes a long way to patching up ballance holes in the early game especially if you are trying to use tantares parts over stock parts leading to a reasonable progression towards the r7 while still seeming historically plausible.

Interesting ideas, you're right in the need to flesh out 0.9375m parts.

True too it would be nice to have a "basic rocketry" craft for career games.

If that craft should be manned or not, I'm not so sure. And a crewed 0.9375m capsule is a little daunting eh

Edited September 15, 2015 by Beale

[passinglurker]

Interesting ideas, you're right in the need to flesh out 0.9375m parts.

True too it would be nice to have a "basic rocketry" craft for career games.

If that craft should be manned or not, I'm not so sure. And a crewed 0.9375m capsule is a little daunting eh

I'd say just use the vostok for the capsule it already has a 0.9m decoupler that fits with it, and the pod chute and decoupler are all already available at the start node where these proposed parts would go and thanks to its spherical shape will look relatively flush with the rocket as if it was intended that way which is important because how do we know if this suborbital rocket plan had actually gone forward that they wouldn't have devised a pod like the vostok as their pressurized cabin? they already used a sphere pod for their high altitude ballooning experiments by that point afterall.

So assuming start is tier1 from there the tier 2 has the vostok upper stage parts (waymaker and wayfarer lfo engines, the service module, the fuel tank, the 1.25 decoupler (why is it heavier than stock? it looks better than the stock one if anything it should weigh 0.005 lighter just to encourage its use!), and then the monoprop parts). and then tier 3 after that has everything you need to make an r7 sans soyuz parts distributed through the tier and there you have it a smooth transition through the early game without frustrating lack of useful parts or control authority.

speaking of balance why do all the pods have built in Stability auto pilot? oversight or intentional?

Edited September 15, 2015 by passinglurker

[kopapaka]

Soyuz orbital modul - design 1963 : D

http://www.stylepark.com/en/news/only-the-watercolors-brburned-to-nothing/361026

Nice story...

[nothingSpecial]

Look what a jewel I have found!

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?80054-Avalon-Aerospace

Edited September 16, 2015 by nothingSpecial

[davidy12]

Soyuz orbital modul - design 1963 : D

http://space-architect.com/wp-content/uploads/6-1.jpg

Who knew Korolev intended the orbital module to make a mini space hotel room.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I agree, rebuild the Ariane after your mostly finished. The stage is meant to be in the main structure of the rocket not in the fairing.

[Beale]

I'd say just use the vostok for the capsule it already has a 0.9m decoupler that fits with it, and the pod chute and decoupler are all already available at the start node where these proposed parts would go and thanks to its spherical shape will look relatively flush with the rocket as if it was intended that way which is important because how do we know if this suborbital rocket plan had actually gone forward that they wouldn't have devised a pod like the vostok as their pressurized cabin? they already used a sphere pod for their high altitude ballooning experiments by that point afterall.

So assuming start is tier1 from there the tier 2 has the vostok upper stage parts (waymaker and wayfarer lfo engines, the service module, the fuel tank, the 1.25 decoupler (why is it heavier than stock? it looks better than the stock one if anything it should weigh 0.005 lighter just to encourage its use!), and then the monoprop parts). and then tier 3 after that has everything you need to make an r7 sans soyuz parts distributed through the tier and there you have it a smooth transition through the early game without frustrating lack of useful parts or control authority.

speaking of balance why do all the pods have built in Stability auto pilot? oversight or intentional?

Thanks for pointing out a few balancing issues there, the decoupler and vernier engines have been reduced in mass.

I do like the sound of the 0.9375m sub-orbital craft.

I think (and this is anecdotal from my own career playings) what is needed also is more science that can be done early on in game, to make sub-orbital hops worthwhile past the first one.

Soyuz orbital modul - design 1963 : D

http://space-architect.com/wp-content/uploads/6-1.jpg

http://www.stylepark.com/en/news/only-the-watercolors-brburned-to-nothing/361026

Nice story...

Hehehe, cool info.

Would make a neat IVA.

Look what a jewel I have found!

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?80054-Avalon-Aerospace

http://i.imgur.com/rp7o55K.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sls5Emd.jpg

http://www.foundation3d.com/uploads/studio/2013/05/-05-735644.jpg

Nice!

A little (barely just a little I mean) too sci-fi for my preference, but nice!

Vostok Kick Stage

Closer matched to new Soyuz rocket!

I am going to add more plumbing to the engine also.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Beale

[passinglurker]

Thanks for pointing out a few balancing issues there, the decoupler and vernier engines have been reduced in mass.

I do like the sound of the 0.9375m sub-orbital craft.

I think (and this is anecdotal from my own career playings) what is needed also is more science that can be done early on in game, to make sub-orbital hops worthwhile past the first one.

In my experience between starter contracts, crew reports, eva reports, and goo pods its possible to clear the first three tiers without having to go orbital or scrounge the KSC beyond the the launch pad if you are through enough. that being said tolerances are annoyingly tight especially when you only have stocks cruddy starter parts to use so...

hmm...

a homage to sputnik 2 may work for more science experiments

I read somewhere it was essentially made out of a spare sputnik and left over space dog experiment parts to get a meaningful follow up satellite up in space fast to capitalize on the first sputniks PR so its plausible that elements from this design also flew on sounding rockets like the R5.

What we would need at least is the the space-dog cabin part of this (the horizontal cylinder with the small window on the bottom) it could serve as either a mystery goo replacement or a whole new experiment (something with the word "kritter" or "kat" in its name? ) simply lighting up the window would be sufficient for the "run experiment" animation the hard part is deciding on scaling since if done to scale with the standard sizes so as to actually make a sputnik2 it would mean either kerbal's pets are almost as big as they are if not bigger or accurate sputnik would be really really tiny (perhaps leave making accurate sizes to the tweak scale config?)

Also sputnik 3 was literally covered in science toys you could scrape off

it was meant to be the first satellite but then the r7 rocket was ready first and Korolev didn't want to wait and get beat by the Americans so he threw together the very basic sputnik's 1 and 2

I didn't get an answer about whether enabling pilot-free SAS on all the pods was intentional or an oversight btw.

--- updated ---

Another option for more science is contracts. The hard reality is that how kerbals do science (bolted to the outside, collected on EVA, and always returned to the kerbin physically) is different from how we do science (it tends to happen either with probes that transmit their findings or on the inside of ships and stations (and yes with some on the outside too in the case of stations)) we don't want to squeeze mat bays into our stacks and tape goo pods to our sides they'd kinda make our craft look weird especially if someone is going for a replica that is for more than show so until squad adds a feature that lets you say what experiments you pack inside your pod our best substitute is contracts that reward science for what essentially amounts to role-playing when you think about it (though relying on contracts to much undermines scientist class and science lab mechanics...) .

Edited September 17, 2015 by passinglurker

[kerbiloid]

Soyuz orbital modul - design 1963

Fly like a sir. ©

LZ 129 Hindenburg had an aluminium grand piano onboard.

Why the spacecraft may not have at least at armchair?

[Beale]

In my experience between starter contracts, crew reports, eva reports, and goo pods its possible to clear the first three tiers without having to go orbital or scrounge the KSC beyond the the launch pad if you are through enough. that being said tolerances are annoyingly tight especially when you only have stocks cruddy starter parts to use so...

hmm...

a homage to sputnik 2 may work for more science experiments

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Laika_ac_Sputnik_2_Replica_(6995685051).jpg

I read somewhere it was essentially made out of a spare sputnik and left over space dog experiment parts to get a meaningful follow up satellite up in space fast to capitalize on the first sputniks PR so its plausible that elements from this design also flew on sounding rockets like the R5.

What we would need at least is the the space-dog cabin part of this (the horizontal cylinder with the small window on the bottom) it could serve as either a mystery goo replacement or a whole new experiment (something with the word "kritter" or "kat" in its name? ) simply lighting up the window would be sufficient for the "run experiment" animation the hard part is deciding on scaling since if done to scale with the standard sizes so as to actually make a sputnik2 it would mean either kerbal's pets are almost as big as they are if not bigger or accurate sputnik would be really really tiny (perhaps leave making accurate sizes to the tweak scale config?)

Also sputnik 3 was literally covered in science toys you could scrape off

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA-3.jpg/800px-%D0%A1%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA-3.jpg

it was meant to be the first satellite but then the r7 rocket was ready first and Korolev didn't want to wait and get beat by the Americans so he threw together the very basic sputnik's 1 and 2

Edited September 17, 2015 by Beale

[nothingSpecial]

Something Sputnik-2 esque could be fun, though I'm not sure everyone would want to blast actual dogs into orbit... I'll give it some thought.

So what about Mysterious Goo approach? "It's alive, it's just weird enough for people not to feel sympathetic".

[curtquarquesso]

Hey all,

Over the past week, I remodeled and revamped the Cygnus (Pol/Pollux/Phoenix). I talked to Beale about it, and he suggested I post it here and get some reactions to a possible Enhanced Cygnus revamp.

Cygnus Revamp: Enhanced Cygnus Configuration

Shown here in the longer Enhanced configuration slated to launch on Atlas later this year, as well as a configuration with some stock parts just to show that it blends in nicely. Notice that the PCM now supports Flag Decals!

With the scales shown, it's perfectly to scale relative to every other Tantares vehicle in the fleet.

Full Mission Demo Album:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The main questions to be answered:

1. Do you like the new size, and will it make the Cygnus more useful?

2. Do the part node sizes all make sense?

3. Given the larger diameter of the Enhanced Cygnus, would you want to see the Antares rocket scaled up to 2.5m to support it?

Looking forward to your input.

Edited September 17, 2015 by curtquarquesso

[passinglurker]

So what about Mysterious Goo approach? "It's alive, it's just weird enough for people not to feel sympathetic".

Something Sputnik-2 esque could be fun, though I'm not sure everyone would want to blast actual dogs into orbit... I'll give it some thought.

This is why I proposed it as possible mystery goo replacement as part of an ultimate secret goal to replace stock with all things tantares with as few comprises for historical accuracy as possible (can we get those r7 radial decouplers back pleeeease? ) like I said you can get to tier 3 smoothly with all the experiments and contracts stock starts you with , and under the tree ballance I proposed (complete vostok r7 by tier3) you wouldn't be suffering from the same bottlenecks stock gives you at this point, and if you do need extra experiments bits scraped off sputnik 3 could cover that. Oh and if it is a goo pod replacement please make it physicsless so I can only pack 1 if I wanted its not an exploit any more because they just add mass to whatever they are attached too without affecting COM.

Or alternate train of thought kerbals dogs/kats/kritters probably love g forces, reentry heating, and being forever stranded in orbit just as much as they do (plus they'd totally survive a suborbital hop if you attach a chute I don't why anyone would be worried )

Probably intentional, but lazy. Possibly a leftover from pre version 0.90 in some cases. I'll fix it if people are not liking it.

Well this presents a bit of an opportunity you see. Now as I'm sure you know vostok was a largely automated spacecraft (test pilots didn't have as big of a say as they did in the states) vostok was also heavier than mercury and try as one might people will always compare the mk1 pod to mercury (unless you maybe started packageing a mercury analog in tantares) so vostok dry should be heavier than the mk1 pod dry but with just 1 kerbal capacity this is hard to justify and if it was made so without a good reason people would just gravitate back to the old ugly mk1 pod, well I believe I've found a good reason.

Simply give the Vostok SAS as a nod to it being automated. From there you increase the mass to equal or a little less than soyuz and strip SAS out of all the other pods (except maybe soyuz's "shenzhou" orbital module as its pretty automated too, but in which case you move the SAS sporting orbital module up to tier 5 as it's technically an upgrade over introduction soyuz and represents that shenzhou came later). this would create a progression like so...

1. Mercury/mk1 pod (lightest reentry pod but needs a pilot to fly straight (or later tech probe, but that negates some of the mass advantages))

2. Vostok (slightly heavier but can safely carry scientists and engineers too)

3. Gemini/Soyuz with OM-A (slightly heavier still, but with the added benefit of being able to safely carry tourists when a pilot is present)

4. Soyuz with OM-B (incrementally heavier, but no longer needs a pilot to carry a tourist though a kerbonaut must still be present)

5. 3 man pods (can carry 2 tourists with a pilot!)

So yeah basically "needs a pilot" or "just needs a kerbonaut" alternating over and over as the crew capacity scales up

[curtquarquesso]

Went back to the drawing board with Vostok engine It's still the same size, so no save problems.

http://puu.sh/kevDZ/e475cf257b.jpg

http://puu.sh/kevG9/a6e0317c37.jpg

http://puu.sh/kewlm/efbb8735d7.jpg

Surprise, it is actually near identical to the old one...

http://puu.sh/kevTl/4ff37e23a0.jpg

Hmm. I really did prefer the last iteration. You had the engine design nailed I thought. The new one looks kinda squishy and harmless. Not sure why, those are just the words that come to mind.

Look what I dug up!