[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Andem said:

I disagree. I use N1 parts in wierd ways all of the time. Integrating cumbersome fuel tanks are a great way to limit a part to near uselessness outside of the "Historical Recreation" crowd. Why hurt the "original design" people when (nearly) everyone is already happy? Or, more simply, If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

 

I make a lot of historical recreations simply to gain a better understanding of why and how the Russians arrived at the designs they did. My dad was a NASA engineer, so I've already got knowledge to the rafters on how the US did things. Perfect models are fine, but they have a tremendous shortcoming with regards to teaching - they perform perfectly. The way Beale has his parts arrayed, you have to learn how things go together. You learn how things were sequenced. You learn the various configurations. You even encounter some of the performance challenges their real-world counterparts encountered. But you also get the opportunity to try your hand at improving things, even arriving at your own variants of known rockets.

Then comes the really fun bit: step out of the historical accuracy rut and try something a friend of mine dubbed hysterical accuracy. Make wacky things, outlandish things. Need more power at liftoff for your Soyuz booster? Theoretically, six first-stage segments would fit around the second stage with a bit of tinkering. You can try that in the Beale paradigm. Not with strictly accurate models. That's why I'm such a fan of Tantares - and Bluedog for that matter - and would rather see things continue in the current direction. Dabbling in the "what ifs" and why nots" is great fun.

I mean, that's what KSP is fundamentally all about. Tinkertoys that fly (and occasionally explode).

41 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I personally am dying to see some horrific mix of N1 and BDB Saturn.

It's on my radar, trust me. I've been launching a Gemini capsule on a modified Soyuz booster for a while now. Frankensteining a Saturn with an N1 ought to be a blast! [pardon the pun]

Edited August 12, 2016 by Jack Wolfe

[Andem]

31 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I personally am dying to see some horrific mix of N1 and BDB Saturn.

[Beale]

53 minutes ago, Andem said:

I disagree. I use N1 parts in wierd ways all of the time. Integrating cumbersome fuel tanks are a great way to limit a part to near uselessness outside of the "Historical Recreation" crowd. Why hurt the "original design" people when (nearly) everyone is already happy? Or, more simply, If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I think my only problem is the very thin engine parts, which do not feel very legal for game use. 

42 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I personally am dying to see some horrific mix of N1 and BDB Saturn.

42 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

horrific

 

[Danny88]

1 hour ago, Andem said:

I disagree. I use N1 parts in wierd ways all of the time.

 

Absolutely. I use the N1 parts for a lot of SSTO's, or for space saving when building HUGELY TALL ships (especially with the engine discs.)

[Beale]

2 hours ago, Danny88 said:

 

Absolutely. I use the N1 parts for a lot of SSTO's, or for space saving when building HUGELY TALL ships (especially with the engine discs.)

Very interesting.

If only there was some way to have the best of both situations. I like the engine fairings a lot.

There is also some argument to make the N1 more like the final model flown.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Beale

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Beale said:

Very interesting.

If only there was some way to have the best of both situations. I like the engine fairings a lot.

There is also some argument to make the N1 more like the final model flown.

 

 

OK, now that you put it that way, and knowing how the engines actually were, I see what you mean regarding the disc engine configuration.

Down to brass tacks, eh? I'm a writer, not a talented modder like yourself. I'm just a consumer of your work. If you want to change things up with the engine/fairing combinations, by all means, do it. Your artistic and technical vision overrides all. The N1 I've built works beautifully. I love it. But if you want to switch things up and make me rethink things? Game on! Let's do it.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Jack Wolfe

[Andem]

9 hours ago, Beale said:

Very interesting.

If only there was some way to have the best of both situations. I like the engine fairings a lot.

Is it possible to have two engine shroud pieces? The bottom being the mesh and the top being more like the NERVA with two "pieces"?

[Beale]

11 hours ago, Jack Wolfe said:

OK, now that you put it that way, and knowing how the engines actually were, I see what you mean regarding the disc engine configuration.

Down to brass tacks, eh? I'm a writer, not a talented modder like yourself. I'm just a consumer of your work. If you want to change things up with the engine/fairing combinations, by all means, do it. Your artistic and technical vision overrides all. The N1 I've built works beautifully. I love it. But if you want to switch things up and make me rethink things? Game on! Let's do it.

The current N1 works just fine, but yes there are issues with the design.

5 metres wide, but only 40cm tall? It's a miracle rocket engine!

It is a real shame this new forum does not feature polls...

4 hours ago, Andem said:

Is it possible to have two engine shroud pieces? The bottom being the mesh and the top being more like the NERVA with two "pieces"?

Sure, something like this?
But, it is all still integrated.

 

So, here is a solution, provide integrated tanks+engines, but also the tanks alone? (Allow people to hot-swap in their own 3.75 / 5m engines).

Edited August 13, 2016 by Beale

[CobaltWolf]

you could throw up a straw poll

[NeoFatalis]

1 hour ago, Beale said:

The current N1 works just fine, but yes there are issues with the design.

 

So, here is a solution, provide integrated tanks+engines, but also the tanks alone? (Allow people to hot-swap in their own 3.75 / 5m engines).

So you want to split this part into the white part which is the tank alone and the black part which is the engines with smaller integrated fuel tank?

EDIT: because BDB is working on the Sarnus V and you are discussing the N1 and each launcher have it's own problems it actually feels like some kind of weird space race

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by NeoFatalis

[Beale]

8 minutes ago, NeoFatalis said:

So you want to split this part into the white part which is the tank alone and the black part which is the engines with smaller integrated fuel tank?

EDIT: because BDB is working on the Sarnus V and you are discussing the N1 and each launcher have it's own problems it actually feels like some kind of weird space race

 

Whoops, poor diagram!

It is more like:

One whole part (white and black).
Left fairing (Blue).
Right fairing (Red).

Let the race to space begin!

 

[trooperMNG]

1 hour ago, Beale said:

So, here is a solution, provide integrated tanks+engines, but also the tanks alone? (Allow people to hot-swap in their own 3.75 / 5m engines).

that would work, but I would go for a separate download

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, NeoFatalis said:

EDIT: because BDB is working on the Sarnus V and you are discussing the N1 and each launcher have it's own problems it actually feels like some kind of weird space race

1 hour ago, Beale said:

Let the race to space begin!

[hraban]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Hello, Hello [cre...k], this is Jeb. I greet BDB and Tantares from a low orbit [cree...beep...l]]around the Moon. Let you time, we have supplies for 36 days and would you like to shake your hand when you then get your problems under control. Incidentally, even a friendly greeting from Contares[beep]. 

 

[CobaltWolf]

32 minutes ago, hraban said:

Hello, Hello [cre...k], this is Jeb. I greet BDB and Tantares from a low orbit [cree...beep...l]]around the Moon. Let you time, we have supplies for 36 days and would you like to shake your hand when you then get your problems under control. Incidentally, even a friendly greeting from Contares[beep]. 

 

Someone has to launch all 3 lunar missions and show them meeting in orbit around the Mun + on the surface.

[cxg2827]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Someone has to launch all 3 lunar missions and show them meeting in orbit around the Mun + on the surface.

@MrMeeb, plz do dis and make video. k tkx

[Andem]

7 hours ago, Beale said:

The current N1 works just fine, but yes there are issues with the design.

5 metres wide, but only 40cm tall? It's a miracle rocket engine!

It is a real shame this new forum does not feature polls...

Sure, something like this?
But, it is all still integrated.

 

So, here is a solution, provide integrated tanks+engines, but also the tanks alone? (Allow people to hot-swap in their own 3.75 / 5m engines).

I was thinking like this:

 

So that the Red is the mesh (around the nozzles) and the Blue & Green also separate and expose the actual engine part of the engine. then the fuel tank (not shown) goes above it.

 

PS. Sorry that the diagram is terrible.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Andem

[Beale]

2 minutes ago, Andem said:

I was thinking like this:

 

So that the Red is the mesh (around the nozzles) and the Blue & Green also separate and expose the actual engine part of the engine. then the fuel tank (not shown) goes above it.

 

PS. Sorry that the diagram is terrible.

The diagram is good but, the sizes would be strange between the fuel tank and engine.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Beale

[Joeybafoey]

21 hours ago, Beale said:

There is also some argument to make the N1 more like the final model flown.

Maybe multiple textures for each tank? Right clicking on it and hitting "next texture" to get a different tank variation might be kinda cool.

[hraban]

1 hour ago, Joeybafoey said:

Maybe multiple textures for each tank? Right clicking on it and hitting "next texture" to get a different tank variation might be kinda cool.

Beautiful desire. Regardless of the debate about the absolutely unsuccessful N1. Which plugin that is possible with the texture change?
Something I'm looking for some time and have not found a satisfactory solution.

[MrMeeb]

4 hours ago, cxg2827 said:

@MrMeeb, plz do dis and make video. k tkx

K 

But...3 moon missions? Saturn V, N1 and...?

1 hour ago, hraban said:

Beautiful desire. Regardless of the debate about the absolutely unsuccessful N1. Which plugin that is possible with the texture change?
Something I'm looking for some time and have not found a satisfactory solution.

I believe the common texture switch option is Firespitter's FSTextureSwitch or something. Haven't got anything to hand, so that's just off the top of my head 

[cxg2827]

1 hour ago, MrMeeb said:

But...3 moon missions? Saturn V, N1 and...?

And this:

Spoiler

from CONTARES:

 

[VenomousRequiem]

33 minutes ago, cxg2827 said:

And this:

But that's another Russian moon mission. N1 already covers Russia.

[FlyMeToTheMinmus]

18 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

But that's another Russian moon mission. N1 already covers Russia.

What about a mission based on the Chinese Long March and Shenzhou family?

Edited August 14, 2016 by FlyMeToTheMinmus

[cxg2827]

19 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

But that's another Russian moon mission. N1 already covers Russia.

True. Or maybe do an old vs new (N1&Saturn V) vs (Yenisei-5 & SLS)