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[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

lo-fi

By lo-fi
in KSP1 Mod Development

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What to work on next?  

1,282 members have voted

  1. 1. What to work on next?

    • More wheels
      123
    • More tracks
      453
    • Rover bodies
      241
    • Landing gear
      137
    • Landing legs
      108
    • Something completely different
      193

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Madrias

Madrias

Posted
Posted

That's pretty much what I've been trying to do.  Might need to drag in a few mods from older versions (just parts, no plugins) because I'm struggling with creative designs for my massive land-ships.  Of course, while my goal is inevitably to discover any bugs I can in my limited capacity, I am also comparing between KSP 1.2.x wheels and the new wheel system.  And the first thing I've noticed is that these seem to handle terrain seams so much more gracefully than I've ever seen stock handle.  Seriously, stuff that'd flip rovers, rip wheels off, or cause tire damage just makes the suspension bounce politely as it goes over a bump.

It's the same kind of testing I used to do for this mod, to throw a hint of random at it and see what happens.

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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
Posted (edited)

I must say that I'm looking forward to seeing this working again.  Looks like it will be around the time I am ready to start a new career game.

I'm looking forward most of all to the treads, just love them and still miss them.

If you are doing private testing, please consider including me;  I'd appreciate being able to test some of my other mods with this in there.

It helps if I read back 2 posts :D

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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Shadowmage

Shadowmage

Posted
Posted

Updated wheels testing release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KSPWheel/releases/tag/0.9.0.2

Mostly quality-of-life improvements to make it easier to build with; also adds WIP/experimental tweakscale support.

As before, please post any issues/etc directly to GitHub.  I'll be opening up a thread specifically for the wheels here in the next few days/week so that there can be a more organized discussion area for them.

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TiktaalikDreaming

TiktaalikDreaming

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Hehe, my mad cackling can already be heard for blocks around.  What is the next step past that, maniacal laughter?  Might give that a try...

 

Will probably have an updated release of the wheels for testing a bit later this afternoon; have fixed up a few quality-of-life problems, and am currently investigating adding tweakscale support.

Where you go from mad cackling is all up to you.  The future is yours once you get there.  Maniacal laughter is certainly one of the favourite options, but evil sniggering is acceptable for successful execution of plans that are less grandiose as well.

Awesome to see this is progressing to the point of KSP testing.

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TiktaalikDreaming

TiktaalikDreaming

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, TheKurgan said:

I'm SOO excited!! downloading git master now!

 

I'd just like to sneak an obscure movie reference in here...

"I am not a stud! I'm...

...GIT MASTER ZERO!"

 

(well, before editing, it was "downloading git master now!")

Edited by TiktaalikDreaming
damn, too slow
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Shadowmage

Shadowmage

Posted
Posted

Have created a thread specifically for discussion of the KSPWheel mod/system:

Please bring any conversation regarding the wheels over to that thread, to help keep things organized and cleaned up.  It is the proper place to discuss features, balance, or other general discussion about the mod.

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Rushligh

Rushligh

Posted
Posted
On 11/29/2016 at 9:55 AM, Madrias said:

That's pretty much what I've been trying to do.  Might need to drag in a few mods from older versions (just parts, no plugins) because I'm struggling with creative designs for my massive land-ships.  Of course, while my goal is inevitably to discover any bugs I can in my limited capacity, I am also comparing between KSP 1.2.x wheels and the new wheel system.  And the first thing I've noticed is that these seem to handle terrain seams so much more gracefully than I've ever seen stock handle.  Seriously, stuff that'd flip rovers, rip wheels off, or cause tire damage just makes the suspension bounce politely as it goes over a bump.

It's the same kind of testing I used to do for this mod, to throw a hint of random at it and see what happens.

DID SOMEBODY SAY MASSIVE LAND SHIPS
 

you all know massive ships is my thing right? there's a reason my profile says "Star Frigate Designer"

If you need parts backs for messing around with stuff, check out Suicidal Insanity's MK2/3 packs, MKIV systems(optional), and OPT. also, SXT.

together that gives you the hullforms required for making all sorts of freaking massive and complicated space/air/land/water craft.

Keep in mind you'll need to run x64 KSP simply due to the complexity, and you'll need "kerbal Joint Reinforcement" to keep your craft from falling apart.

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Madrias

Madrias

Posted
Posted

I'll have to consider that.  I've slowly been adding in mods to my dev-kit, just making sure not to outright break anything just yet.  Already run in x64 because some of my mod lists get insane, and I've always had it in mind to put Kerbal Joint Reinforcement into play at some time to see if it helps me cut down on my over-use of struts.

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Rushligh

Rushligh

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Madrias said:

I'll have to consider that.  I've slowly been adding in mods to my dev-kit, just making sure not to outright break anything just yet.  Already run in x64 because some of my mod lists get insane, and I've always had it in mind to put Kerbal Joint Reinforcement into play at some time to see if it helps me cut down on my over-use of struts.

If you use JKR then you won't need struts most of the time. also, at least get the MK2 pack, SXT, and OPT. they add a very large number of very usefull parts for making complicated hulls.
included are examples of hulls made with OPT, MK2, and SXT parts. iy7izFQ.pngLZBNiGU.png
I'll admit this one is older. It's from the last time i used KF.RaS6ksx.png
this one is very recent. though it looks like 1 hullform, it's entirely composed of a bunch of different parts that make a custom shape.

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Mycroft

Mycroft

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Rushligh said:

DID SOMEBODY SAY MASSIVE LAND SHIPS
 

you all know massive ships is my thing right? there's a reason my profile says "Star Frigate Designer"

If you need parts backs for messing around with stuff, check out Suicidal Insanity's MK2/3 packs, MKIV systems(optional), and OPT. also, SXT.

together that gives you the hullforms required for making all sorts of freaking massive and complicated space/air/land/water craft.

Keep in mind you'll need to run x64 KSP simply due to the complexity, and you'll need "kerbal Joint Reinforcement" to keep your craft from falling apart.

A BROTHER!! CMAU Incorporated specifically deals in massive and tremendously beweaponed craft. Our civilian crafts are also huge! I find B9 HX makes for excellent massive and complex craft. 

I've been specifically looking forward for this mod to help my stock Soulflare (https://kerbalx.com/Mycroft_33/Soulflare) get around better!

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riocrokite

riocrokite

Posted
Posted

@lo-fi FYI when you're back - about that off-road wheels in asset store - it seems that most of the magic comes from the fact that each wheel uses about 20 (to up to 100) raycasts along its base to create desired effect so I'm afraid it doesn't solve physx/unity problems:

f4KODxx.png

source:

https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/wip-released-wheelcontroller-realistic-three-dimensional-alternative-to-wheelcollider.425443/

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BrutalRIP

BrutalRIP

Posted
Posted
On 11/28/2016 at 0:47 AM, Mycroft said:

What I gather from @Shadowmage's frequent posts (good thing btw, keep it up) is that once Kerbal Foundries comes out, it's gonna be WAAAAYY BETTER than stock wheels! Considering most mod wheels are worse, that's high praise!

Kerbal Foundries has always been way better than ANY other wheel in ksp.:cool:

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flywlyx

flywlyx

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, riocrokite said:

@lo-fi FYI when you're back - about that off-road wheels in asset store - it seems that most of the magic comes from the fact that each wheel uses about 20 (to up to 100) raycasts along its base to create desired effect so I'm afraid it doesn't solve physx/unity problems:

f4KODxx.png

source:

https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/wip-released-wheelcontroller-realistic-three-dimensional-alternative-to-wheelcollider.425443/

Raycast to the ground in KSP sometimes give ridiculous readings, do you know how to solve this?

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Shadowmage

Shadowmage

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, riocrokite said:

@lo-fi FYI when you're back - about that off-road wheels in asset store - it seems that most of the magic comes from the fact that each wheel uses about 20 (to up to 100) raycasts along its base to create desired effect so I'm afraid it doesn't solve physx/unity problems:

f4KODxx.png

source:

https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/wip-released-wheelcontroller-realistic-three-dimensional-alternative-to-wheelcollider.425443/

Interesting findings.  Probably good for simulation; terrible for performance.

I do something relatively similar with the 'capsule-cast' sweep type in KSPWheel, but currently it only uses two capsules in a V-shape, which I wagered wouldn't be too bad for performance.  Of course, none of the sweep types I use properly handle super-wide wheels, but there has to be some tradeoffs of realism for performance.

Still investigating adding a few more suspension sweep types, would like to be able to fully simulate the tire physical bounds (and 'flat' tires for use in treads), but these will be optional/toggle-able/configurable as are the rest of the sweep options.

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lo-fi

lo-fi

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Posted

Wow, stuff has happened while I've been away! I've skim read, but will get up to speed when I have time. @Shadowmage, regarding your question about the KF plugin referencing the Unity WheelCollider class, it wasn't difficult to change it up to reference your code. I made a few little tweaks so some of the property names in SLWheelCollider matched the Unity version, and changed the KF plugin accordingly. I'll grab your latest work and see how it goes.

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Shadowmage

Shadowmage

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, lo-fi said:

Wow, stuff has happened while I've been away! I've skim read, but will get up to speed when I have time. @Shadowmage, regarding your question about the KF plugin referencing the Unity WheelCollider class, it wasn't difficult to change it up to reference your code. I made a few little tweaks so some of the property names in SLWheelCollider matched the Unity version, and changed the KF plugin accordingly. I'll grab your latest work and see how it goes.

Indeed, good stuff even;  welcome back :)

I had some time off work, and felt like being productive.  Revisited the force-based solution, and made very significant progress.  Things are working well at this point as long as settings are properly configured.  Still some situations that can cause the simulation to explode or break down a bit, but from my testing they generally only occur in situations that are unrealistic to begin with.  Managed to find and remove two separate sources of jitter from incorrect physics calculations, and added a couple of damping factors that help deal with the jointed-rigidbody-harmonics problems.  Also managed to figure out a force-based sticky friction implementation with the help of a few donated ideas.  It is not perfect, but on well setup craft can bring sliding/drift down to very minimal levels; enough where it would be easy to use a joint to lock down the final bit.  Bump-stop is handled at the PartModule level by inserting actual colliders into the model; no proper friction information is available with that setup, but I figured if the suspension is that far overloaded there are bigger craft design concerns than how much traction is available.  Still some work to be done, but overall quite usable

 

When you get around to looking at code, the KSPWheels master branch should be what is currently out being tested, and a good place to start with the KF integration.  The only real class you need to interface with is the KSPWheelCollider; everything else is either back end containers or part of the KSP part modules. The interface for the collider itself is mostly stable / finished.  Might add a wheelWidth field to be used with some of the suspension sweep types, but aside from that I think it is mostly complete. 

I did turn it into a MonoBehaviour (so it can be added to GameObjects like any other Component), but its update method must still be called manually from the controlling PartModule; this was done to allow for precise control over when the updates occurred (or if they occur); e.g. to make sure all wheels have been updated before averaging tracks rpm.  There is an 'auto-update' toggle that will allow the WheelCollider to use its own FixedUpdate method in case automatic updating is desired, but it gets more complicated to disable the wheel when using the automatic internal updates.  For use with co-routines, simply have the co-routine call the wheelCollider.updateWheel() method as needed (though at most once per Unity physics update/FixedUpdate, obviously).

 

If you feel like playing with some of the KF parts using the new colliders, you can download the release from KSPWheels repo and install it into KSP 1.2.1 alongside the 1.05 KerbalFoundries release (can remove the KF plugins).  I created patches that duplicate the KF parts and switch them over to the KSPWheel set of PartModules.  Obviously the cloned parts will have a different feature set than would be had with the KF plugin and modules, but can give you some idea of how well they will work under the new system.  (Not intending to take the place of KF plugin, merely wanted to expand the available models for testing, especially to make sure the tracks worked and were stable; will be removing the KF patches as soon as you have things running under the KF modules)

 

I have a feeling things are about to start getting a lot busier around here :)
(p.s. -- probably want to keep the fish around for awhile longer though)

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Rivvik

Rivvik

Posted
Posted

 

HYPE IN MAXIMUM OVERHYPE YES NOW HAPPYDANCE TONIGHT!!!

 

I was poking around with the treads, it seems tweakscaled treads fall through the runway and, while properly animated, do not move. Ans non-Tweaked treads have me rolling. Seriously.

 

Looking forward to a functional release!

 

I'm gonna build the Landmaster from Phantasy Star IV

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Shadowmage

Shadowmage

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Rivvik said:

[...snip...]

I was poking around with the treads, it seems tweakscaled treads fall through the runway and, while properly animated, do not move. Ans non-Tweaked treads have me rolling. Seriously.

[...]

If you are referring to the use with KSPWheel and patches, the proper forum for discussion is

 And the proper place for bug reports is ( https://github.com/shadowmage45/KSPWheel/issues ).

 

Just to re-iterate, Kerbal Foundries is not yet compatible with KSP 1.1+, so it is not surprising if things do not work.

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Rivvik

Rivvik

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

If you are referring to the use with KSPWheel and patches, the proper forum for discussion is

 And the proper place for bug reports is ( https://github.com/shadowmage45/KSPWheel/issues ).

 

Just to re-iterate, Kerbal Foundries is not yet compatible with KSP 1.1+, so it is not surprising if things do not work.

Which is why I posted it here. :)

Your plugin, however, seems to make the treads' individual wheels bounce and move individually, so that was really cool!

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Ryusho

Ryusho

Posted
Posted (edited)

...And now I am trying to get the plugin crossover to work XD to test it on my end.

 

Oh wait, I'ma derp, X_X extracted it wrong like a moron *fixes*

 

...and now that I fixed it, Oh my gosh I don't care that it's a bit janky, ....I am loving it....even without sounds or anything, I have missed these so much! It's amazing to see them at least working in basic ways again ^..^

Edited by Ryusho
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lo-fi

lo-fi

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Looks like ShadowMage has successfully picked this up, and is well on the way to making functional tracks. I grabbed a copy of the latest, but lost interest figuring out how to use it with KF.

Good luck, guys. Lo-Fi out.

Mods: Thread probably wants locking again please. Long live the Holy Mackerel of Antioch.

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