Devnote Tuesdays: The "Everything's Shaping Up" Edition

[NoMrBond]

I dont want to wait that long.

We will launch so many boosters we get to wait in the shade!

---

Serious time, How did Hugo (and Marco) get to become interns? Did they apply for a vacancy, cold-call with an established portfolio of work, or did they make something cool for KSP which got Squad's attention as some previous modders have done?

If they did have portfolio of previous work, could we see some of it (that they'd consent to show us)? As an aspiring 3d artist it'd be great to see what to shoot for in terms of getting a foot in the door.

---

In other questions, what would Felipe and the Squad team do to play KSP with Buzz Aldrin following his AMA? I'm assuming Rowsdower gets to organise that?

Edited July 9, 2014 by NoMrBond

[Aethon]

Just so you all don't miss it, HarvesteR popped into /r/kerbalspaceprogram to answer a quick QUESTION.

Wow. Glad you pointed that out Rows. I read it earlier, saw the purple print and helmeted monkey, and assumed the post was by you.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Are there a finite number of specifically designed contracts to work through, or are the contracts procedurally generated - at least after a certain point in the game?

I have a feeling there won't be "infinite" b/c it's going to be limited, if nothing else, by "do X activity" or "test X part" in Y situation at Z location (eg, test the new nuclear engine in Duna's lower atmosphere, or something). Of course, that would still be a lot of contracts. If they eliminate clearly non-sensical ones (eg test our new rover wheels on Jool or take off from Eve only using Ant engines) that will reduce the number further, but I could imagine a significant body of contracts that could be created.

And my impression from reading past devnotes are that modders will be able to create their own contracts as well, which will add to the game if you include mods. Heck, people may create a mod JUST with new contracts that they didn't think of.

I would have two questions about the update that I'm not sure I've seen specifically on this thread:

1) How are you dealing with things like boosters that would in theory be recoverable, but which usually despawn before you would get a chance to revoer them (assuming you're dealing with them at all)

2) What potential is there, for better or worse, for contract grinding. For example, if there is a contract to land on the Mun, which will reward you $10,000, is it a contract you can only do once? Can you only do it X number of times? Can you do it any number of times always for $10,000, or can you do it any number of times, but the reward you get back for each repetition of the contract gives you a lower profit as the previous completion?

Edited July 9, 2014 by FleetAdmiralJ

[Caelib]

July 20th would be fitting.

Oh please no ... I can't wait 12 more days ... the agony!

[RocketPilot573]

Oh please no ... I can't wait 12 more days ... the agony!

Well, I'm going on vacation next week so 12 more days would be ideal for me.

[KaBob]

I am so excited for 0.24 =D If it's going to be out soon I better get started on the special plans I have for my lets play.

[Moss]

Waiting for the update. I'm quivering with antici---

[HafCoJoe]

Hugo (The Intern):Working on the Mk series pieces. Starting some IVA planning for some of these. I’ve been improving some of the MK-1 changes I did with the feedback of my coworkers. Getting super excited about the coming release.

It's happening. It's FINALLY HAPPENING!!! I am sorry I've juts been anticipating improvements on the Mk pods for way too long.

Now can you answer any rumors about Unity 5 and 64 bit?

[NoMrBond]

Now can you answer any rumors about Unity 5 and 64 bit?

Unity 5 isn't out yet

0.24 will extend x64 support to Windows, but not OSX

[HafCoJoe]

Unity 5 isn't out yet

0.24 will extend x64 support to Windows, but not OSX

As is when it comes out lol. I'm wondering how soon KSP will switch to Unity 5 after it is released and if anyone wants to chat or read about jots of 64 bit there is a nice thread here people have been using. And some release info about Unity 5 too.

AS FOR IVAs the Mk cockpits aren't the only ships in need of redone IVAs. The MK2 Lander can still needs instruments. It is MY favorite .

[NoMrBond]

There were a couple of Unity 5 discussion threads about four months ago when it was announced and went on pre-order, unfortunately almost nothing has changed since then.

I don't see how anyone at Squad could possibly answer when KSP could migrate to something that doesn't have a release date yet. Once Unity 5 is out the developers would need to assess whether migration of the KSP project to Unity-5 is viable (will the codebase migrate, what does Unity-5 cost Squad to get a license at their scale, will the effort expending migrating from Unity 4 to Unity 5 deliver the same kind of benefit if that money/time were spent differently, etc).

Don't get me wrong, I would like for the answers to be yes because the promised benefits turn out to be both real and significant, but until Unity 5 is available, and Squad can directly assess the reality of it, there is simply not an answer.

[Mandelbrot]

As is when it comes out lol. I'm wondering how soon KSP will switch to Unity 5 after it is released and if anyone wants to chat or read about jots of 64 bit there is a nice thread here people have been using. And some release info about Unity 5 too.

AS FOR IVAs the Mk cockpits aren't the only ships in need of redone IVAs. The MK2 Lander can still needs instruments. It is MY favorite .

I say leave it as is! We need a Manley Mode cockpit with barely any instrumentation for IVA only missions like this:

[Virtualgenius]

Question: Will all the anomalies be available again in .24 and will they be part of the contract goals

[NoMrBond]

Question: Will all the anomalies be available again in .24 and will they be part of the contract goals

Ooo, we've heard a tale about this arch thingy on the Mun, we want you to go there and hang this billboard from it!

[item Added to VAB Inventory] CLAW Billboard

[Kerano]

I have a feeling there won't be "infinite" b/c it's going to be limited, if nothing else, by "do X activity" or "test X part" in Y situation at Z location (eg, test the new nuclear engine in Duna's lower atmosphere, or something). Of course, that would still be a lot of contracts. If they eliminate clearly non-sensical ones (eg test our new rover wheels on Jool or take off from Eve only using Ant engines) that will reduce the number further, but I could imagine a significant body of contracts that could be created.

I can still imagine plenty of options for repeatable, procedural contracts:

1. "Bigwig Kerman, the head of [contractor], urgently needs to get from [coordinate/biome] to [coordinate/biome] on Kerbin, but his regular pilot has fallen ill with kerpendicitis. Fly out to pick him up, and take him to his required destination."

2. "The [spacecraft] orbiting [planet/moon] has suffered a technical fault which has rendered it unable to [generate electrical power/ignite its boosters]. Fixing the fault will require a replacement part to be transported from Kerbin. Send a crew to dock with the station and install the replacement part."

3. "The CEO of [contractor] wishes to inspect the [spacecraft] facility on [planet/moon]. Pick him up from [location] and transport him safely to the facility."

4. "Recent probing has uncovered a valuable source of [unobtainium] on [planet/moon] near [coordinates/biome]. Establish a manned base of operations in this area, including at minimum the following [parts]."

5. "Two of the retiring executives at [contractor] wish to start a rally championship on [planet/moon] near [coordinates/biome]. Design two different man-powered rovers and land them safely together at the location."

6. "Sensors have detected seismic activity on [planet/moon] near [coordinates/biome]. Send a crew to investigate and return samples."

7. "The manager of [contractor] requires [number] tonnes of fuel to be added to the [spacecraft] orbiting [planet/moon] for nefarious purposes. Transport and dock the specified amount of extra fuel to the space station."

8. "The [spacecraft] probe orbiting [planet/moon] has malfunctioned and requires a manual reset. Send a Kerbal to rendezvous with the probe and EVA to fix the problem by making contact with [part]."

9. "The megalomaniacal director of [contractor] requires a tower [number] meters high to be built near [coordinates/biome] on [planet/moon]. Design and land an appropriate tower at the given location. The central pod must be at least [number] meters above ground level when the tower comes to rest."

10. "A shipment of supplies needs to be transported from the [spacecraft 1] on [planet/moon 1] to the [spacecraft 2] on [planet/moon 2]. [Contractor] requires your services to oversee the operation."

11. "The president of [contractor] is on holiday and wishes to take an aerial tour of Laythe. Pick her up from the [spacecraft] orbiting Laythe, descend into Laythe's atmosphere, land, and return to the [spacecraft] in orbit to complete this mission."

12. "An experiment on the [spacecraft] orbiting [planet/moon] has gone horribly wrong, generating extremely hazardous waste. [Contractor] is convinced that the only way to save Kerbalkind from impending doom is to eject the barely contained waste into the sun. Design a craft with a detachable [container] capable of docking with the [spacecraft] to collect the waste, then undock and achieve an orbit intersecting Kerbol. Choose to eject the [container] on this collision course, or allow the entire craft to be incinerated by the star."

13. "Dubya Kerman, the president of [contractor], wishes to set a new record for the longest golfing drive. Pick him up from [location], transport him to the surface of Minmus to take his shot, and return him to Kerbin."

14. "The head honcho at [contractor] is planning a spectacular fireworks display as an engagement surprise for her partner. Design a craft capable of staging at least [number] impressive aerial explosions while the central pod remains intact. Trigger the explosive stages in the air above [location], and land the central pod safely."

15. "The bosses at [contractor] have decided to reward their employees with a company outing to [planet/moon]. Design a craft capable of transporting [number] Kerbals to the destination, and returning them safely to Kerbin."

16. "Important figureheads from [contractors] have arranged to hold a secret meeting on the dark side of the Mun. Pick them up from [locations] and transport them to their destination."

17. "The chief officer at [contractor], an avid golfer with notoriously bad aim, wants for once in his life to score the ultimate hole in one. Pick him up from [location] and take him to the north pole of Moho."

18. "A daredevil manager at [contractor] is determined to ride an asteroid down through Kerbin's atmosphere for his next stunt. Design a craft to take the thrill seeker to an asteroid, nudge it into a path intersecting Kerbin, and ride the asteroid down to an altitude of [number] km. Detach the craft from the asteroid below this altitude, and land safely."

19. "An executive at [contractor] wants to take her family on a skiing holiday. Design a craft which can take [number] Kerbals to a snowy peak above an altitude of [number] km on Kerbin, and land them safely on the mountain."

20. "Someone has eaten all the snacks aboard the [spacecraft] orbiting [planet/moon], making the resident Kerbonauts grumpy. Send a craft from Kerbin to dock with the station and resupply it with delicious treats."

I could keep going...

(Note 1: No spacecraft would be added to the game, it'd just use the ones you had in place already. I'm assuming that by this point in the game - when you've finished all the existing contracts - you'll probably have at least one spacecraft in orbit around most planets/moons, and one landed spacecraft on most as well. Thus these missions would trigger using your existing spacecraft - only in the locations where the conditions were met. If you didn't have any spacecraft in locations which met the preconditions for a particular contract, you wouldn't be assigned that contract.)

(Note 2: I had the idea that instead of giving coordinates/biomes for these missions, rebranded flags - perhaps labelled "checkpoints" - might work equally well as mission location indicators.)

Edited July 11, 2014 by Kerano

[Torham234]

Mk2 cockpit internals! Please! It's been in since 0.15, in 2012, and its my favourite cockpit.

IKR? The mk2 is very useful since it has got a nose attachment node, but you can't pilot it from IVA.

I feel like shouting

PS: lol that sig

[Superfluous J]

I can still imagine plenty of options for repeatable, procedural contracts:

2. "The [spacecraft] orbiting [planet/moon] ...

3. ... [spacecraft] facility on [planet/moon]...

7. ... the [spacecraft] orbiting [planet/moon] ...

8. "The [spacecraft] probe orbiting [planet/moon] ...

10. ...from the [spacecraft 1] on [planet/moon 1] to the [spacecraft 2] on [planet/moon 2]...

11. Pick her up from the [spacecraft] orbiting Laythe...

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with random fully-built spaceships, bases and stations popping up in my game.

Cool ideas though and I hope the in-game contracts are similar to many of them!

[Kerano]

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with random fully-built spaceships, bases and stations popping up in my game.

Cool ideas though and I hope the in-game contracts are similar to many of them!

I agree that randomly spawning new spacecraft wouldn't be desirable... I meant it to use your existing ones.

I'm assuming that by this point in the game - when you've finished all the existing contracts - you'll probably have at least one spacecraft in orbit around most planets/moons, and one landed spacecraft on most as well. Thus these missions would trigger using your existing spacecraft - only in the locations where the conditions were met. If you didn't have any spacecraft in locations which met the preconditions for a particular contract, you wouldn't be assigned that contract.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Kerano

[HafCoJoe]

I say leave it as is! We need a Manley Mode cockpit with barely any instrumentation for IVA only missions like this:

Ah I have done an IVA mun landing! Quite fun though it wasn't without quick saves . I totally get your point but I still really want the additional instruments :/. Maybe an option for disabling all instruments for less energy? I don't know but I love that cockpit too much for me to see it bare. I want it fully functional .

I can still imagine plenty of options for repeatable, procedural contracts:

1. "Bigwig Kerman, the head of [contractor], urgently needs to get from [coordinate/biome] to [coordinate/biome] on Kerbin, but his regular pilot has fallen ill with kerpendicitis. Fly out to pick him up, and take him to his required destination."

Just as you mentioned coordinates, stock needs a easier way to find your ground coordinates when landing/in orbit in order to have moving things from place to place a better contract. As for all your contract ideas, nice! In response to 5thHorseman I'm with you that I don't want random ships popping up. If the contracts have a means of using bases you've ALREADY placed as objective that'd be awesome! Like: "[First base name]'s software is becoming outdated. [contractor] wants replacement gami- er, 'software' computers sent soon. Reward is [kredits]." That'd be so cool!

Edited July 9, 2014 by Avera9eJoe

[Kerano]

Just as you mentioned coordinates, stock needs a easier way to find your ground coordinates when landing/in orbit in order to have moving things from place to place a better contract. As for all your contract ideas, nice! In response to 5thHorseman I'm with you that I don't want random ships popping up. If the contracts have a means of using bases you've ALREADY placed as objective that'd be awesome! Like: "[First base name]'s software is becoming outdated. [contractor] wants replacement gami- er, 'software' computers sent soon. Reward is [kredits]." That'd be so cool!

Yep, I agree on all points. Perhaps it wasn't clear, but when I use the placeholder [spacecraft] I'm implying that this term would be replaced by the name of whichever one of your spacecraft had triggered the mission. So if you had a spacecraft called "Orion V" which triggered one of these missions, then each occurrence of [spacecraft] would be replaced by Orion V.

[Streetwind]

Questions for the FAQ:

- Are you implementing the new currencies, particularly the money budget, as a pool of discrete cash from which to player buys parts and into which contract earnings go, exactly like science points? Or will it be something truer to the term "budget", where you have (for example) a per-launch "allowance" provided by some third party that does not decrease based on buying parts but rather increases/decreases based on objective completion/failure or the spending of reputation? (I feel that this is an important question because it directly plays into how the feature is designed from the ground up, how it is intended to be played, how stable/usable the system is for exceptionally good and exceptionally bad players, and the like.)

- Are the two new currencies a core feature that is required for progress in career mode, like the existing currency of science points? If that is the case (and I expect it to be), in what way do currencies and contracts interact as features? Previously Squad described contracts as completely optional. I understand that this may have changed during development, and I ask this question completely without bias either way: can you earn these currencies just through regular launches, like you can earn science just by flying up there and conducting an experiment? Or does money/budget and reputation come exclusively from contracts?

- Will the mission control building be accessible in sandbox mode, or will it be locked like the R&D facility?

- If contracts are procedurally generated, do you have a system in place that prevents specific contract repetitions, or are contracts designed to be repeating? (I can see some examples given by Squad in the past, like "test part A in situation X", being more something that doesn't make sense appearing after already being completed.)

- Expanding on a previous question by someone else: if modders are able to hook into the contract system, can they also add their own companies and company logos? And does the contract system itself in return hook into modded content, i.e. does it auto-generate contracts based on non-stock parts, planets etc.? After all, the recently revealed logos are a big thing in .24, and I expect them to feature quite prominently in the contract system. And since it's effortless to add a new manufacturer (just write it in the part.cfg), just about every single part addon does it. The contract system would need to work with this manufacturer entry somehow if it was to hook into these parts automatically, and it would need to associate some kind of logo to it.

- Are the new tutorials coming that were talked about before the advent of the .23.5 release? If so, any plans to leverage them for updating the demo version anytime soon? A friend I talked into trying KSP grabbed the current demo, played for 30 minutes and then gave up because there was no direction and nothing to help him get off the ground. With the new tutorials coming to cover the basics, as well as additional "your next goal could be this" guidance via contracts during actual gameplay, .24 could be an excellent opportunity to release a new demo version that delivers a much better new player experience. (I once wrote this post in the suggestion forum on this topic.)

[Torquemadus]

I'm curious about how the economics of reusability versus expendability will work. My current launch vehicles use large amounts of solid rockets at launch, many have no liquid engines at all in their first stage. This greatly lowers the cost of the first stage compared to an equivalent liquid fuelled design (based on current part costs as shown in the VAB), but the solids disappear after falling back into the atmosphere and are thus not recovered.

The logic is that if I design my launch vehicle to be completely recoverable, I'm recovering mostly engines and empty fuel tanks. If solid fuel is a lot cheaper than liquid fuel, then the savings I get from recovering engines and fuel tanks might not be competitive. Recovering the launch vehicle means that I'll have to add either wings and landing gear, or parachutes, which add additional cost and weight.

Also, if I recover parts, is there an incentive for me to return them to the KSC? An advantage of making a winged space plane instead of an Apollo style parachute landing is that I can fly the plane back to the KSC and land it on the runway. In principle, this would be preferable to sending out recovery ships to fish spacecraft and spent boosters out of the ocean.

Edit: I know the placeholder prices seen in the VAB are not the same as prices in 0.24. The devs mentioned they are doing a lot of balancing work at the moment.

I'm curious about how recovering parts works from an economic standpoint. For example, if I make a Space Shuttle, the SRBs will disappear when they fall back into Kerbin's atmosphere. The external tank will also not be recovered. However, the orbiter returns to the KSC and lands on the runway. Now, let's say I want to build a space station. Do I launch it in one go on top of a big expendable Saturn V booster the way Skylab was launched? Do I assemble it in orbit with multiple shuttle launches like the ISS? How many shuttle launches will I need? Is it better to use an SSTO?

If fuel is expensive, I can easily end up spending more money on fuel than I save by recovering reusable launch vehicles.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Torquemadus

[Sky_walker]

Current in-game prices got nothing to deal with prices in 0.24.

[Sky_walker]

1. Will 0.24 break career saves?
   
2. Will 0.24 have any new biomes? If so, which planets got the treatment?
   
3. Will 0.24 have any new parts?.

+1

So the planes are finally getting an art pass? About time.

Are they? I wouldn't be so sure.

[ola]

All of you who are fawning over new IVAs should look at the RasterPropMonitor and Multi-Functional Display mods, they're awesome.