parts [1.12.x] USI Exploration Pack - Small parts, big adventure! [v 0.6.0]

[RoverDude]

Out of date version or a bad install.

[KerBlam]

Hey Roverdude,

I'm having all sorts of trouble getting a packrat built and operational.

The latest is, When I take one (the other 3 work fine) of the Packrat miniwheels out of a KAS crate, it just sticks to the ground instantly, and I start hovering straight up into the sky like I'm standing on an invisible column. I can walk off the column and fall back to the mun. I get no contextual menu on the wheel, like it's not there, and the mash looks broken. I've tried all sorts to try and get it out of the crate without this happening, but it doesn't matter what I do. I think this is my fourth expedition trying to get a complete operational packrat.

edit: So if I go to the space centre and reload Bill Kerman, the wheel is on my back as normal

a bit strange though.

So happy to have a working rover, now I can explore the Mun!

Edited January 9, 2015 by KerBlam

[Kolago]

There is an error in UmbraSpaceIndustries/ExpPack/AES/Spaces/AES_Internal:

Load(Model): UmbraSpaceIndustries/ExpPack/AES/Spaces/AES_Internal

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

File error:
Failed to read past end of stream.
  at System.IO.BinaryReader.ReadByte () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at System.IO.BinaryReader.Read7BitEncodedInt () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at System.IO.BinaryReader.ReadString () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at A.	.ReadTextures (System.IO.BinaryReader br, UnityEngine.GameObject o) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at A.	.ReadChild (System.IO.BinaryReader br, UnityEngine.Transform parent) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at A.	. (.UrlFile ) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Model load error in 'C:\Kerbal Space Program 90 x86\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\ExpPack\AES\Spaces\AES_Internal.mu'

The error is there with clean 0.90 install (Win 7 x64 / KSP 32bit) and only ExpPack_0.3.1.zip installed!

[burner_nn]

Have same issue as KerBlam

Steps to reproduce:

1. Make a ship with KAS Container B and PackRat wheel in it.

2. Launch

3. Take wheel from container and attach it to something

4. Grab wheel and store it in container

5. Try to take wheel from container - BOOM!!!

Upd.: using stateless = true in part's config fixed the problem

Edited January 9, 2015 by burner_nn

[Spheniscine]

I hear you need to mount it on a pylon to prevent that from happening... not sure, never used KAS

[biohazard15]

Looks like PackRat is kinda broken currently:

1) When I take front section, I cannot attach it right - it attaches to ground pylon (or any other part) upside down.

2) Chassis front section has no "Attach" option at all.

I didn't look at other parts, but I suspect they may be also broken.

All mods in question (USI EP and KAS) are of their latest versions.

[Angelo Kerman]

Looks like PackRat is kinda broken currently:

1) When I take front section, I cannot attach it right - it attaches to ground pylon (or any other part) upside down.

2) Chassis front section has no "Attach" option at all.

I didn't look at other parts, but I suspect they may be also broken.

All mods in question (USI EP and KAS) are of their latest versions.

front section needs to be flipped arounf using Shift+b or Shift+n. Then take the chassis front, right click on the section and "store" the front chassis. Then take chassis back section, right-click on chassis front section, and "store" it. Finally, take back fender section, right-click on rear chassis, and "store" it. Works like a charm. The key is to use the KAS controls to rotate that front fender around, and "store" the parts.

[RoverDude]

Correct. 99.99% of all broken reports are KAS being KAS

[biohazard15]

front section needs to be flipped arounf using Shift+b or Shift+n. Then take the chassis front, right click on the section and "store" the front chassis. Then take chassis back section, right-click on chassis front section, and "store" it. Finally, take back fender section, right-click on rear chassis, and "store" it. Works like a charm. The key is to use the KAS controls to rotate that front fender around, and "store" the parts.

Oh. Got it, thanks!

Would be nice to add these instructions into part descriptions, though.

[KerBlam]

Ok, got Packrat on moon, actually have a function for it where I need to grab a part of a ship that I crashed about 6kms from my munar base... Let's take the packrat!

After losing control and flipping it about 3 times I get over the lip of the crater I'm in, into the next crater.

The ship I'm trying to get to is one more crater over.

Flip a couple more times, every time it slides on its side for about 500m, then I have to get out and flip it over. After chasing the thing for another 500m because it rolls away faster than I can run I get back in.. get halfway up the crater.... the rover stops... can't climb the crater... it's a 10 degree slope according to mr. Navwheel. Try a few different angles, no joy... turn around to go back to my munar base... can't get out of this crater! I spend about 20 minutes driving around the rim of this thing to see if I can make it out, and there's no way. I notice the headlights dim out when I try to accelerate up the hill... Is it not getting enough power?

My point being: Is it at all possible to give the packrat a teeny bit more traction and power? It looks like it should be quite bottom heavy with a wide wheel base, but the thing flips over all. the. freaking. time. As soon as you get a bit of pace up, it wants to turn around, and then you're on your lid, sliding for half of forever.

Please... can this be fixed? I can't be the only one who has noticed this. I hope I don't sound complain-y.. I'm actually not. I love your work... If there's any way to get a wee bit better performance out of this cool little rover, I'm sure it would be worth it> For science! Plus I would be exremely happy.

Edited January 15, 2015 by KerBlam

[RoverDude]

Watch this video and ask me again

Note: I had to TRY to flip this. Also note the climb angle from a dead stop near the end.

[KerBlam]

Soooo is there something up with my setup then? something's clearly up... I can't get up an incline that steep even from a run up, and it wants to go backwards and flip all the time and it slides a loong way on its side. I'm serious, I'm tempted to make a video to show you, but I wouldn't know how tbh I've never done that before.

[klgraham1013]

Any thoughts on expanding the PackRat parts? It's a nice vehicle, but there's little else to do with the parts then make the PackRat itself, with slight variations. A Chassis_Middle section could allow an extension of the frame, possibly making a trailer of sorts. I can say, from my own experience, having a number of different trailers can be quite useful when exploring the unknown. I'd love to have a more varied fleet of PackRats, PackRat trailers, PackRat IR construction vehicles, etc. etc.

[RoverDude]

Possibly. Considering some expansions to the concept, though it may not be quite as packable

I'm just curious how many people field assemble vs. pre-assemble the packrat as that will influence the direction, etc.

[Dudicus]

Soooo is there something up with my setup then? something's clearly up... I can't get up an incline that steep even from a run up, and it wants to go backwards and flip all the time and it slides a loong way on its side. I'm serious, I'm tempted to make a video to show you, but I wouldn't know how tbh I've never done that before.

i've had some luck with rover designs that include ion thrusters facing upward. this acts in a similar fashion to the fins on F1 race cars. the upward facing thrusters push you toward the ground and give you a lot more traction, especially on inclines. if placed properly (i use one over each wheel) it results in a rover craft which is very difficult to flip. i'd suggest experimenting a bit with different designs. i haven't met a crater i couldn't scale with this design. of course, you'll need to account for the energy and fuel usage, but it's very doable.

[KerBlam]

I've done both, and found field assembling to be a bit space and time excessive.. If only there was a KAS box that could fit an entire rover in pieces in it instead of having to spread it out over a few boxes...

Having said that though, I don't think I'll be worrying about it too much in future after this mun debacle. I left it in the crater and walked back to base in the end... ever walked 3kms as a kerbal?

edit: Thanks Dudicus.. I imagine that would increase the weight a bit too which would probably help.

[rabidninjawombat]

I've done both, and found field assembling to be a bit space and time excessive.. If only there was a KAS box that could fit an entire rover in pieces in it instead of having to spread it out over a few boxes...

Having said that though, I don't think I'll be worrying about it too much in future after this mun debacle. I left it in the crater and walked back to base in the end... ever walked 3kms as a kerbal?

edit: Thanks Dudicus.. I imagine that would increase the weight a bit too which would probably help.

Kerblam all the rover pieces will fit in one of the MKS module bases (if you use MKS)

Regarding pre-built vs KAS assembled, I generally send mine prebuilt (not enough patiences )

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

I've done both. For trundling around KSC it's easier to pre-build in the VAB, but it's awfully bulky to tack on the outside of a lander with the roll-cage on (ASET's Portable Rover Components are much more suitable for that), and the rover carrier is even worse. I tried designing a Tylo lander around one of those frames and just could not get it to close, though (in retrospect) I might have more luck with an MKS lander frame, or by making the rover lander one way and giveing the astronauts a separate landing-and-returning vehicle -- more missions for The Thinking List...

Anyway, I've made two attempts to bring one to the Mun. The first was carried pre-built on the side of the lander (going for a two-stage Apollo-style lander), which required me to lose a fuel tank to make it balance. If I had been more experienced with lander design, I probably could have made it down OK, but I ended up with a Mun TWR that was lower than I expected, so that lander went "splat".

After Jeb and Buzz respawned, I tried again, this time packing it in Universal Storage containers. I became very acquainted with the F5/F9 keys while figuring out the assembly process (mod+b / mod+n for flipping over the bumper, managing to attach all the parts without dropping them and letting them explode, etc.). When I was done, I realized that I had forgotten to bring chairs. I was really kicking myself over this one, because when I was packing up the components, in the VAB I found myself with a surprising amount of room left over -- almost a whole US container (type B, I think -- the one with 80 units of space) -- and had asked myself "Wow, what will I do with all of this space?" I ended up filling it up with sensors and science boxes. Bother! A return mission with chairs is in the planning.

tl;dr I've had lots of fun with it at KSC, but no luck at actually using it off-world. I might have some more luck by pre-building the chassis and tacking it to the side of a lander, and packing the roll cage in a small container as a final in-situ assembly step.

[KerBlam]

Kerblam all the rover pieces will fit in one of the MKS module bases (if you use MKS)

Regarding pre-built vs KAS assembled, I generally send mine prebuilt (not enough patiences )

Is that right? Which one's MKS? That's the Kolonisation one yeah? That's the next thing on my list, I'm still tinkering with getting a mining/ship production setup happening, and I don't want to baffle myself with too many new parts just yet. EPL and Karbonite are keeping me busy enough at the moment But that's good to know.

[klgraham1013]

Possibly. Considering some expansions to the concept, though it may not be quite as packable

I'm just curious how many people field assemble vs. pre-assemble the packrat as that will influence the direction, etc.

I pre-assemble everything. Just made a C-7 to take an expedition to the north pole. The PackRat fit's quite nicely in the new Mk3 parts.

Edited January 15, 2015 by klgraham1013

[Dudicus]

edit: Thanks Dudicus.. I imagine that would increase the weight a bit too which would probably help.

np. the extra weight helps a little (especially when you factor in the fuel you have to bring along), but the thrust on the other hand makes a huge difference. when the thrusters are off it performs like any other moon rover i've made. when they're on (usually throttle for a 1.0 TWR) its like driving on kerbin while being glued to the ground. i can get up to 10 m/s and make all kinds of crazy turns, the rover actually drifts instead of flipping. on a straight path, i can cruise between 15 m/s and 20 m/s depending on the terrain. under 15 m/s i get very little airtime on hills and bumps.

that being said, i have noticed that some inclines create an undue amount of resistance. i think its a physics glitch. i can be cruising along at 13 m/s going almost vertical, then i hit a slight incline and my speed drops way down and i have to give constant acceleration to get even 3 m/s. then another change of incline gets me back to my previous speeds. this seems more prevalent when climbing up the sides of craters, as i've never really encountered it anywhere else.

edit: so far I've pre-assembled all my rovers.

[Snarfster]

Possibly. Considering some expansions to the concept, though it may not be quite as packable

I'm just curious how many people field assemble vs. pre-assemble the packrat as that will influence the direction, etc.

Personally, I like to assemble on site. I do end up leaving the rover because I cannot seem to disassemble it without it blowing up.

Very happy with the rover, wouldn't mind a few skins for the science crate, something like life support, stuff like that.

Thank you for the great rover though. Best I've driven so far

[vardicd]

Ok, got Packrat on moon, actually have a function for it where I need to grab a part of a ship that I crashed about 6kms from my munar base... Let's take the packrat!

After losing control and flipping it about 3 times I get over the lip of the crater I'm in, into the next crater.

The ship I'm trying to get to is one more crater over.

Flip a couple more times, every time it slides on its side for about 500m, then I have to get out and flip it over. After chasing the thing for another 500m because it rolls away faster than I can run I get back in.. get halfway up the crater.... the rover stops... can't climb the crater... it's a 10 degree slope according to mr. Navwheel. Try a few different angles, no joy... turn around to go back to my munar base... can't get out of this crater! I spend about 20 minutes driving around the rim of this thing to see if I can make it out, and there's no way. I notice the headlights dim out when I try to accelerate up the hill... Is it not getting enough power?

My point being: Is it at all possible to give the packrat a teeny bit more traction and power? It looks like it should be quite bottom heavy with a wide wheel base, but the thing flips over all. the. freaking. time. As soon as you get a bit of pace up, it wants to turn around, and then you're on your lid, sliding for half of forever.

Please... can this be fixed? I can't be the only one who has noticed this. I hope I don't sound complain-y.. I'm actually not. I love your work... If there's any way to get a wee bit better performance out of this cool little rover, I'm sure it would be worth it> For science! Plus I would be exremely happy.

Dude, I feel your pain, I flip the thing all the freaking time, on Kerbin. So far haven't managed to haul it to the Mun, tried to pack it and assemble it there, but every time I try to field assemble it, it wont let me, says there is no spot configured for this piece, or its full. never managed to assemble it in the field, RoverDude, you hear me? lol. I'm sure that's just my own stupidity tho, as I've seen it done, just can't figure out how to put it together. even just taking a seat off and trying to put it back doesn't work for me. Love it, don't get me wrong, the little thing is awesome.

[Snarfster]

OK, my first reply did boom for some reason.

1.Start with a ground pylon, attach the rover front end to it, rotate it correctly with MOD-B and MOD-N (alt on windows).

2. Store the front chassis in the front end.

3. Store the rear chassis in the front chassis.

4. Store the rear end in the rear chassis.

5. Store two wheels in the front chassis.

6. Store two wheels in the rear chassis.

7. Store a seat in the front end. It will appear on the side you are standing on.

8. Store the roof rack in the front end.

9. Store any other seats, science crates and/or data camera in the front end.

10. Board it.

11. Set the brake.

12. Get out.

13. Pick up the ground pylon.

Ready to drive.

[vardicd]

Yay, I finally managed to [partially] construct a pack rat in the field, Jeb flipped it again and blew up the rear section and a wheel, I got replacement parts flown out to it and got it rebuilt.