[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[RoverDude]

I'd ideally like to make a full set at some point, but yeah I could knock those out in maybe a week. Just give me part specs (eg. 2.5m inline as high as the large monoprop tank) and I'll mock up some models tomorrow.

I will PM you shortly with a short term and a long term list.

Even better - I'll just show relative sizes with primatives in Blender and send you screenshots

Edited July 21, 2014 by RoverDude

[thelpb]

Been playing around with MKS for a bit now and have been having a blast with it. Very excited for an ORS alternative to Kethane!

[Rakh]

Given how awesome MKS is, this is tantalizing. Super excited!

I can't model worth a damn but if you need coding help, let me know! I'd love to contribute!

[RoverDude]

Coding challenge: If anyone wants to volunteer for this, PM me. Want to make sure only one person works on this to minimize cross efforts.

What I would like to see is some code that procedurally generates a 640x480 greyscale PNG. basically I would like to have randomized ORS maps, so each player's experience is different. This is not a launch requirement, but one that I think would add some nice depth. I'm envisioning something procedural where it affects the density, scatter, size, etc. of the deposits in grayscale for ORS. Bonus would be for it to take an existing PNG (like the default greyscale ones I use for MKS/OKS, but could be anything) as input so that the randomness has some correlation to terrain.

Bonus: Ability to add to this map after the fact. The play would be that players could, on land, 'explore' a point and have a chance of generating a new hotspot for the given resource So we'd need to change the ORS map. Conversely, there could be a mechanic where a spot's density decreases over time due to resource depletion, encouraging the player to find a new hotspot.

[RoverDude]

Question for folks - I'm not a fan of the radial drills since you always have to do them in pairs or mess with balance.

How do people feel about having the extractor as the bottom part of a ship (i.e. belly mounted)? The plan would be that I'd bundle the MKS struts as a platform, and the extractor would rest below that so you would have to drop it in via a sky crane or parachute.

Thoughts? Alternate ideas?

[sidfu]

what about a inline one that it folds out then down to drill. kinda like how the home landing gears think it was did they inside of it but fold out .

[NoMrBond]

What about having them as 'stack' centerline parts (much like fuel tanks), want it as part of a ship trunk, it goes on the bottom of the stack nearest the ground, want them sidemounted? can do that too because they're surface attachable just like fuel tanks

[rabidninjawombat]

I agree on the Radial Drills point. Not a huge fan, but there hasn't been a real alternative (and im no modeler )

a Bottom mounted drill on the existing MKS module base would be a fine choice with me honestly. (or something close to it)

[GreenWolf]

What would be the differences in using Karbonite as a dependency for a plugin instead of ORS? Does/will Karbonite extend the ORS API in anyway, or does it just add resources/parts that use the ORS API?

[RoverDude]

What would be the differences in using Karbonite as a dependency for a plugin instead of ORS? Does/will Karbonite extend the ORS API in anyway, or does it just add resources/parts that use the ORS API?

Karbonite uses ORS. So think of it as a new standard resource with accompanying parts.

There will very likely be some gameplay extensions, but really that's the crux of it. There are three that I am considering, First is procedurally generated resource maps (so every game is different). Second is a mechanism to impact that map, so it can change based on player actions. And lastly, a way (I need to fiddle with this) to operate ORS on rails, so you don't have to resort to time warp.

[thelpb]

Question for folks - I'm not a fan of the radial drills since you always have to do them in pairs or mess with balance.

How do people feel about having the extractor as the bottom part of a ship (i.e. belly mounted)? The plan would be that I'd bundle the MKS struts as a platform, and the extractor would rest below that so you would have to drop it in via a sky crane or parachute.

Thoughts? Alternate ideas?

A drill like the MKS module base that we could attach a storage tank to the top of would pretty ace I think.

[Rassa Farlander]

I dont know what ORS is or MKS is, but this mod has my interest

[sirklick]

I really enjoy the idea of a center aligned mounted drill "drop rig" (somewhat like your Hollow Asteroid claws), but I also think that it would be neat to have an equal mass radial part (radial converter, hydraulics unit, power supply, radiator, etc..) that could be used to equalize the CoM. Mongrel/Quasimodo style "builds" are just more interesting then perfect symmetry at all times. It would be nice to have both of course but I am also thinking -perhaps incorrectly- that a drill could be modeled in such a way so that the drill model could be reused with different mounts (radial and stack) and possibly different animations.

Edited July 22, 2014 by sirklick
Grammar should be more gooder

[123nick]

sorry if this is already stated, but what is the controversial mod thats been included? i dont know what it is and i want to know!

[HerrGeneral]

ModStatistics.

[BigFatStupidHead]

How do people feel about having the extractor as the bottom part of a ship (i.e. belly mounted)? The plan would be that I'd bundle the MKS struts as a platform, and the extractor would rest below that so you would have to drop it in via a sky crane or parachute.

Thoughts? Alternate ideas?

If Karbonite is a pumpable liquid, then drills could be used to form a borehole, and a pumpjack could be used to extract it. This could also be used to counterweight a radial drill.

[ragzilla]

Karbonite uses ORS. So think of it as a new standard resource with accompanying parts.

There will very likely be some gameplay extensions, but really that's the crux of it. There are three that I am considering, First is procedurally generated resource maps (so every game is different). Second is a mechanism to impact that map, so it can change based on player actions. And lastly, a way (I need to fiddle with this) to operate ORS on rails, so you don't have to resort to time warp.

Use GameEvents.onVesselGoOnRails to serialize current Planetarium.GetUniversalTime() to a part/module. Then in GameEvents.onVesselGoOffRails calculate the elapsed time and figure out what happened.

[RoverDude]

Good stuff

I'm going to whip together an 'ugly white cylinder' version of the mod, and start getting some bits together. Let's see if I can start flying around Eve on vaporized Karbonite...

[Cybot]

Since we all appreciate robust designs that lower part count, might i suggest this as a possible template for an all-in-one terrestrial Karbonite extractor/transporter?

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/infrastructure.php#id--Orbital_Propellant_Depots--Kuck_Mosquito

It's a very simple design and you could even adapt your inflatable code to simulate the bag filling up, i think.

The whole page is just full of good ideas, I would love to see Lighters in your mod someday http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/infrastructure.php#id--Orbital_Propellant_Depots

[RoverDude]

Ok here is the parts list (Nertea, rather than influence your creative process, just go with what you think looks awesome).

Consider Karbonite is a solid in it's natural state, extracted from rocks. But can be found in some planets in liquid or gaseous form.

Parts needed for lauch - we'll start with the 2.5m form factors because mining stuff should be hard, and have big parts.

An extractor (see discussion above, any option works).

A storage tank to store our Karbonite.

A converter.

We can use stock antennas for detection for launch.

Bonus items (Do whatever ones you have ideas for)

Oceanic extractor

Atmospheric scoop

Karbonite-fueled engines (you could probably just reskin ones you already have) in 0.625, 1.25, and 2.5 form factors.

A Karbonite-fueled jet engine

Different sized tanks

Our own antenna

Different size converters/extractors

A generator to turn Karbonite into ElectricCharge

I think it makes sense to have one person work the models so the look and feel is consistent. That being said, I can absolutely lend a hand either in modeling or texturing if this is too much. I'm going to work on configs, getting ORS set up with the resources, planetary base maps (at least till we have procedural ones), and a mod to operate the extractors on rails, plus anything else I think of

[passinglurker]

Question for folks - I'm not a fan of the radial drills since you always have to do them in pairs or mess with balance.

How do people feel about having the extractor as the bottom part of a ship (i.e. belly mounted)? The plan would be that I'd bundle the MKS struts as a platform, and the extractor would rest below that so you would have to drop it in via a sky crane or parachute.

Thoughts? Alternate ideas?

parts that can be stack mounted and have a drill extend out like the 1.25 kethane drill would probably be the most intuitive to incorporate into a ship design

[Angelo Kerman]

Solid karbonite? Interesting. I remember that the new Battlestar Galactica had tylium ore as a mined resource that is then liquified into fuel. I can see karbonite having a similar process.

[passinglurker]

Oh here is something to think about....

Mining for easy pickings. Basically instead of sending a big extractor that can deplete a whole planet you send a small one that can only reach say the first couple thousand units? basically the difference between panning for gold and deep vein mining. This would allow for have different sizes of extractor that doesn't lead to "smallest drill+timewarp" being the best option.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Hey Rover, I put the following up as a thought to resourcing models a few weeks back:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/84630-Proposal-for-resourcer-modders-Automatic-Resourcing-Mod-Model?highlight=model

Given your automatic logistics hub, ORS, and now your desire for Kethane, it seems this would be a good time to put in my two cents by saying: 'Go read that'.

I'm a big fan of 'Set it And Forget It' type of setups. Mainly because it's real hard for a single player to keep up with a huge empire if they're forced to do all the work of every little activity themselves.

Also, if you're picking up fuel aspect, some kind of support for those of us using Real Fuels would be nice. Not exactly sure how it would implement just yet. But perhaps a generic 'universal' tank that has a fixed volume, but automatically stores any resources placed into it in any combination of volumes up until it's full. That way you can just fill that one tank, and then transfer it to the less flexible tanks.

Edited July 22, 2014 by AdmiralTigerclaw

[Qberticus]

This seems pretty interesting. It's exciting to see the advances in gameplay potential from all of this. I had one concern when reading about using the stock antennas for initial version scanning models. Using an MM config to attach additional functionality to them would conflict with Remote Tech and a few other mods. I'd like to suggest that you just create new part configs that use the current models as reference with new names. Then you can update the models later and not conflict as heavily with other mods that use the antennas as antennas.