[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[Shiv]

I've not seen any SCANSat integration yet. Someone said it's integrated with ORS but I see nothing about that in the SCANSat thread nor this one.

Has Karbonite been tied successfully to MKS and EXPL yet? I saw people attempting it a few pages back but someone said the game kept crashing for them.

[drtedastro]

look in the beta 7.?? on scansat..

The DEV version.

[Boomerang]

Thanks both of you, I'll check it out in the morning

[Carcharhinidae]

I've not seen any SCANSat integration yet. Someone said it's integrated with ORS but I see nothing about that in the SCANSat thread nor this one.

Has Karbonite been tied successfully to MKS and EXPL yet? I saw people attempting it a few pages back but someone said the game kept crashing for them.

you need the dev version of scansat (7.x) to get the ORS integration with it. It uses the same resource system as MKS, which is ORS, and though I don't think anyone has tied Karbonite to EL, I have posted a MM file in both threads that allows a few MKS parts to build rocketparts for EL without the need for kethane to be present.

[Shiv]

Is this the one you're talking about? If so, what do I do with that file? I don't really understand the way KSP reads mods beyond sticking them in the GameData folder.

Also I haven't seen it answered yet: anyone know the range on the scanner for Karbonite?

you need the dev version of scansat (7.x) to get the ORS integration with it

Hrm...I installed SCANSat from the dev thread and it's still not working. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it's supposed to integrate, but I don't see Karbonite on any of my SCANSat maps, even new ones made while scanning for Karbonite.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Shiv

[Ringkeeper]

Actually I'm glad you posted that picture, because that's not what my overlay looks like. This is what mine looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/rUtdyw0.png

http://i.imgur.com/jxtgNQi.png

Big enormous orange bubbles, not those small dots. & I haven't installed texture replacer besides what u bundle with Karbonite. Also note thet only show up when I'm closish to them. I can't see the ones all the way across the continent like in your picture.

The reason his bubbles are that small and yours are so big is easy explained: He is 500km away, you maybe 25km .

So, yeah, his bubbles have to be WAY smaller.

But bubbles don't matter at all. If you put your harvester at any place on the mun you will get Karbonite (Ore/Water/Substrate/Mineral if you use MKS) !

In the bubbles you just get it faster. Thats it.

You want your base at this flat top of the mountain? Go ahead, mine there.

You want to harvest on this slope? Do it.

You want to harvest in this lovley crater as your kerbals like holes? Ok, have fun.

You want to mine (soon) in the ocean? Yes, build a boat and go on.

It doesn't matter where you want to harvest, you can. Bubbles make it just faster.

Kethane? You want to buidl on flat area? Nah, no deposit, only on that slope.... With kethane you have to build bases where Kethane wants to build. Not where you want.

[Carcharhinidae]

Is this the one you're talking about? If so, what do I do with that file? I don't really understand the way KSP reads mods beyond sticking them in the GameData folder.

Also I haven't seen it answered yet: anyone know the range on the scanner for Karbonite?

yes, that's the file. and.. well. basically. that is all you have to do with that file. put it anywhere in your gamedata folder. to be safe you can put it in the MKS folder, or give it it's own flder. or put it in gamedata directly. I don't believe (degree of uncertainty on putting it in the gamedata folder directly) that it matters.

and the range? well.. what range do you mean? range for the hotspots to show up, or range to use SCANsat's ORS integration? the first I don't know, but I 'think' it depends on altitude how wide an area of the planet the scanner can show. with above a certain altitude showing an entire hemisphere at once. the SCANsat modules I do know. those have a minimum height of 5 kilometres, optimum height of 100 kilometres, and a max height of 750 kilometres.

to get scansat to work, go to the small map, click on the settings button there, and then you should see the menu, in which you can select karbonite from the ORS resources, you will need to switch through the settings between different ORS resources on the big map, as at the moment SCANsat only lets you put one resource overlay over it. (so you could be looking at ore deposits, if you wanted to switch to karbonite, you'd need to do that through the settings menu again).

Edited July 28, 2014 by Carcharhinidae

[RoverDude]

Actually I'm glad you posted that picture, because that's not what my overlay looks like. This is what mine looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/rUtdyw0.png

http://i.imgur.com/jxtgNQi.png

Big enormous orange bubbles, not those small dots. & I haven't installed texture replacer besides what u bundle with Karbonite. Also note thet only show up when I'm closish to them. I can't see the ones all the way across the continent like in your picture.

Lots of folks already covered it in a lot of different ways. You have bubbles because you're zoomed in. Just turn hotspots off if you're that zoomed in... ORS is not Kethane. Apples and tractors. I like ORS better for several reasons, the largest being that if it does something I don't like, I can change it. Already coordinating how to do this with the fellow that handles KSPI experimentals to limit the forks.

There are a couple of things about the whole compatibility/new planets/karbonite vs kethane functionality debate that I think need to be keep in mind at all times.

1. Neither kethane nor Planet Factory have been updated for 0.24.2 and neither seem to have a licence which allows anyone else to update them in the author's absence at this time. Neither of them are truly functional, though some people do get some mileage out of PF.

2. Resource maps for new planets won't be an issue in a world where there is a popular and widely used resource gathering system based on ORS. They just have not to date because it wasn't entirely necessary. That being said, maps were made for at least a few planet packs to accommodate interstellar so... its really a non issue. The content will be made based on what people use and the demand.

3. Karbonite and Kethane aren't really incompatible. Like you could run both at once just like you may already do now with kethane and interstellar. They simply are not compatible in that they share no systems and will not talk to each other or integrate. While I see no real point in using both, you could.

Bingo.

Just a quick question that I might have missed the answer to. I've seen people mention SCANSat integration for displaying the Karbonite concentrations. Is that actually a thing yet (if so, how does one go about making that work?) or is it on the to-do list?

And I've got the massve orange spheres like were posted above, but it's not that worrisome at the moment.

That's ORS... it's how it works Just turn off hotspots unless you are... um... looking for hotspots

It is a thing indeed. You will need the dev version of scansat from here :

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80661-0-23-5-DEV-SCANsat-v-7-0-Real-Scanning-Real-Science-at-Warp-Speed!?p=1169815#post1169815

I THINK the detector is also the scansat object. Someone else can probably confirm or deny this as I haven't got all my satellites in orbit yet on my career save to have all the details.

There is a bit of code I need to add into the detector, which I will do once I make it less ugly

[Krevsin]

Well, jumping Jeb on a jet bicycle, this mod has evolved quite a bit in the last week.

Testing the latest version now.

BTW, you really should update the OP to say 0.0.5 is available.

[Ringkeeper]

and dont touch the scanner At least i like this unusual design.

[Hitokiri]

Hi, in DEV5 version convertor doesn't really work - Karbonite is consumed as is electricity but neither Liguid Fuel nor Oxidizer is added to tanks... (my setup http://i.imgur.com/AdBWqCD.png).

Also one comment for landing gear, I really don't like it for one reason - it is not modular - as you see, in my case I happen to have 3 NERVA engines so for landing gear it would be best to have either 3 or 6 legs and not 4. However I'm somehow forced to use landing gear from mod, in order to place extractor correctly... my thought, I would rather have just adapter where I can place whatever legs I need (i.e. stock one) with whatever configuration, lastly legs from this mod doesn't react on G button...

[Remi]

Hi guys.

Finally signed up to the forums today just to say well done on a very promising mod.

I have been testing the latest dev release and even now in it's current state I prefer it to Kethane.

In the latest release I can confirm as working:

Extraction works. Sometimes a bit slow if you are on a low yield spot but this is expected.

The current extractor drill is a little unwieldy unless using the landing leg frame. Which is a bit ship-design limiting. I had to mount it on the side with a hinge from robotics in the end. It did the job. But the planned radial drills will overcome this problem.

Conversion works, at least for monoprop and LFO if it is all in the same stack. I seem to have run into an issue where my side tanks did not get fueled, but it was easy to work around by using fuel transfer from the main tank. It may well be that this is a designed limitation, and I believe Kethane extraction would have had the same issue.

Scanning for deposits works. I had a good number of orange high-yield sites show up from orbit.

Not working (or possibly me being a noob):

I have the dev release of scansat (V7.). I could get all other resources to show up on the maps (like ore etc) but did not manage to get Karbonite to show up. It did not even show a resource yield percentage when mouseing over the map.

I was using the latest scansat dev release. Latest Karbonite release. Used both the standard sensor (which has Karbonite on the resource list) as well as the new karbonite sensor.

I went into settings in scansat and selected Karbonite, but nada. All other resources in there show up OK.

As I said, maybe I am doing something wrong, in which case someone please enlighten me

Having said all that, you dont actually need scansat to make use of Karbonite and extract, so it is not a show stopper. It's a nice to have.

Finally would like to congratulate the mod devs for a job well done. This is shaping up to be a great mod.

[RoverDude]

Hi, in DEV5 version convertor doesn't really work - Karbonite is consumed as is electricity but neither Liguid Fuel nor Oxidizer is added to tanks... (my setup http://i.imgur.com/AdBWqCD.png).

Also one comment for landing gear, I really don't like it for one reason - it is not modular - as you see, in my case I happen to have 3 NERVA engines so for landing gear it would be best to have either 3 or 6 legs and not 4. However I'm somehow forced to use landing gear from mod, in order to place extractor correctly... my thought, I would rather have just adapter where I can place whatever legs I need (i.e. stock one) with whatever configuration, lastly legs from this mod doesn't react on G button...

Thanks - and no worries, it was a part saving measure (and folks on the MKS/OKS side have been asking for it), but what I can do instead is swap it out for two of the cage modules - one with four trusses and one with three. That should solve both ship design issues, fairing complaints, and landing gear complaints all in one shot.

Hi guys.

Finally signed up to the forums today just to say well done on a very promising mod.

I have been testing the latest dev release and even now in it's current state I prefer it to Kethane.

In the latest release I can confirm as working:

Extraction works. Sometimes a bit slow if you are on a low yield spot but this is expected.

The current extractor drill is a little unwieldy unless using the landing leg frame. Which is a bit ship-design limiting. I had to mount it on the side with a hinge from robotics in the end. It did the job. But the planned radial drills will overcome this problem.

Conversion works, at least for monoprop and LFO if it is all in the same stack. I seem to have run into an issue where my side tanks did not get fueled, but it was easy to work around by using fuel transfer from the main tank. It may well be that this is a designed limitation, and I believe Kethane extraction would have had the same issue.

Scanning for deposits works. I had a good number of orange high-yield sites show up from orbit.

Not working (or possibly me being a noob):

I have the dev release of scansat (V7.). I could get all other resources to show up on the maps (like ore etc) but did not manage to get Karbonite to show up. It did not even show a resource yield percentage when mouseing over the map.

I was using the latest scansat dev release. Latest Karbonite release. Used both the standard sensor (which has Karbonite on the resource list) as well as the new karbonite sensor.

I went into settings in scansat and selected Karbonite, but nada. All other resources in there show up OK.

As I said, maybe I am doing something wrong, in which case someone please enlighten me

Having said all that, you dont actually need scansat to make use of Karbonite and extract, so it is not a show stopper. It's a nice to have.

Finally would like to congratulate the mod devs for a job well done. This is shaping up to be a great mod.

Silly question - for your side tanks - are they connected by fuel crossfeed parts? This will not generate through stack decouplers, which would be by design. I'll do some testing myself as there are a few generation bugs I need to play with. See above RE the ventral cage It's plus is cleaner designs of your rockets and no balance issues - but let's see if we can iron out the downsides.

SCANSat stuff should be covered elsewhere in the thread

[Hitokiri]

Thanks - and no worries, it was a part saving measure (and folks on the MKS/OKS side have been asking for it), but what I can do instead is swap it out for two of the cage modules - one with four trusses and one with three. That should solve both ship design issues, fairing complaints, and landing gear complaints all in one shot.

Got it in logic of MKS/OKS, mentioned different type of extractors will also solve it, so don't bother with it...

[jesjhoward]

I have a question that may be slightly off-topic... I'm also just learning how modding works, so bear with me =]

I've copied your converter models and altered them to fill the gaps until EL conversion is integrated (converting ore to metal, metal to rocket parts) and they're working fine, but I'd like to take this a step further and change the water resource to something like 'salinated water' which needs to be desalinated for drinking. Which mod defines the water resource? I'm sure it's either ORS (probably) or one of the Umbra mods... just can't seem to find it. Thanks!

Also: I just about have the MM coding in hand, next will be learning to model for KSP. Once I can do these, I'll be able to contribute in some way. Great job to the community!

[RoverDude]

I have a question that may be slightly off-topic... I'm also just learning how modding works, so bear with me =]

I've copied your converter models and altered them to fill the gaps until EL conversion is integrated (converting ore to metal, metal to rocket parts) and they're working fine, but I'd like to take this a step further and change the water resource to something like 'salinated water' which needs to be desalinated for drinking. Which mod defines the water resource? I'm sure it's either ORS (probably) or one of the Umbra mods... just can't seem to find it. Thanks!

Also: I just about have the MM coding in hand, next will be learning to model for KSP. Once I can do these, I'll be able to contribute in some way. Great job to the community!

There should be a cfg file with resources in it (in this case, just Karbonite).

Keep at it Started modding myself only a few months ago.

[jesjhoward]

Okay, I've found resources.cfg that defines Karbonite, and I've also found the planetaryresources.cfg in the MKS folder that seems to define and list quantity per planet. It seems that I should change all of the planetary 'water' resources to 'salinated' and then redefine 'water' in a new .cfg. Hmm... I wonder if TAC would redefine water on it's own... don't wanna have multiples. Thanks RoverDude!

[Hitokiri]

Regarding conversion, looks like something doesn't work for tanks LF/OX that are not stacked with convertor

AS you can see all three monopropellant tanks were filled all at once with same amount, however LF/OX tan that are not stacked wasn't filled at all (tanks on front and end of vehicle remain empty while tank in middle is full). Worst of it, conversion will continue and so Karbonite is spent but nothing is made...

[andrestirabo]

is planned that the Karbonite Converter converts karbonite into xenon?

[Dronky]

LF/O flows automatically only within stack where converter is located, just like in stock LF/O doesn't flow to radially connected tanks without fuel pipes.

So I did little test to see how things work. Left tanks are connected directly to converter with pipes (upper from tank to converter) and right tanks are connected to tank in stack with converter (lower from radial tank to stack tank). Seems like it works like kethane does by removing negative amount of fuel from pipes starting tank, so it works backwards how fuel pipes normally work.

[Sufficient Anonymity]

is planned that the Karbonite Converter converts karbonite into xenon?

Not involved with this project, but my two cents would be that it makes sense to be able to convert to hydrogen in reasonable quantities, but Xenon and Argon, being noble gases, shouldn't be available via a converter.

If you wanted to obtain them, the only way I can see that makes sense would be to have a specialised atmospheric intake/converter that uses a heck of a lot of power to strip tiny amounts of Xe or Ar out of the body's atmosphere.

[jesjhoward]

There's been some discussion on xenon conversion. RoverDude said he would eventually put up a poll to see what the community thinks.

[elfindreams]

and dont touch the scanner At least i like this unusual design.

Agreed, I love its quirkyness, it just feels kerbaly.

[RoverDude]

Okay, I've found resources.cfg that defines Karbonite, and I've also found the planetaryresources.cfg in the MKS folder that seems to define and list quantity per planet. It seems that I should change all of the planetary 'water' resources to 'salinated' and then redefine 'water' in a new .cfg. Hmm... I wonder if TAC would redefine water on it's own... don't wanna have multiples. Thanks RoverDude!

Be careful - you may break something horribly

Regarding conversion, looks like something doesn't work for tanks LF/OX that are not stacked with convertor

http://i.imgur.com/0eST1YN.png

AS you can see all three monopropellant tanks were filled all at once with same amount, however LF/OX tan that are not stacked wasn't filled at all (tanks on front and end of vehicle remain empty while tank in middle is full). Worst of it, conversion will continue and so Karbonite is spent but nothing is made...

Need to see if this is a KSP converter bug or what... humor me and see what it does if you add fuel pipes.

is planned that the Karbonite Converter converts karbonite into xenon?

Not involved with this project, but my two cents would be that it makes sense to be able to convert to hydrogen in reasonable quantities, but Xenon and Argon, being noble gases, shouldn't be available via a converter.

If you wanted to obtain them, the only way I can see that makes sense would be to have a specialised atmospheric intake/converter that uses a heck of a lot of power to strip tiny amounts of Xe or Ar out of the body's atmosphere.

There's about 50/50 on either side for this one. My inclination at the moment is to include it, given the tremendous amount of mass you will lose doing it.

[Carcharhinidae]

or make it an optional file addition? the intent is for this to be fairly modular, right?