Kerbal Transportation System, MkIV Now with STOCK payload bay! Yup, you heard right.

[Rune]

Hello guys! I previewed this one extensively on the "work in progress" thread, so it won't surprise most of you. It did, however, impress me a lot! As I said there, development went exceedingly well. The new Vernor engines kept the stack controllable the whole way in the first try, I eyeballed delta-v perfectly, aesthetics fell into place like the parts were designed to be fit that way (some heavy clipping and cursing was still needed to get that boat-tail, but much less than usual in such things) and modifying to include a mod payload bay worked perfectly with only a few hiccups along the way (separate download, the first one is 100% stock). It even landed on its first landing test!

It is, however, quite faithful to the original, mind you, which makes this a craft for either veteran players, or those that don't mind having a lot of FUN!â„¢ learning. Just like the real thing, and I enumerate the similarities this way because there are too many for a single phrase, or even a paragraph:

-It doesn't thrust where the navball says you are pointing. The thrust vector points actually 5 to 20º under it, depending on the stage of the launch. It'll start at between 5-10º when the SRBs are running, then when you drop them you will be thrusting about 20º offset (doesn't make the gravity turn easy to judge, let me tell you). Then when the orbiter is on the OMS engines on its own, the thrust vector goes just on the lover tip of the "-V-" navball sign, which is handy for in-space maneuvering, you can still be precise on rendezvous burns at least.

-The T/W curve on the launch is more or less similar: it needs the boosters to lift off the ground, and in fact when you drop them you will have to take your time before starting the gravity turn, since you still drop to T/W just over one, yet by the time you are reaching orbital velocities you have to throttle down because the verniers can't keep up with it.

-It requires a short of preflight checklist. To save on orbital fuel (and yeah, another point, the OMS engines run on monopropellant, no oxidizer on the orbiter), you have to turn off the RCS system by hand through action gorups (double tap, because like the landing gear it doesn't work the first time), and you also need to engage RCS and SAS at all times during launch at least until you ditch the ET.

-The ET must be ditched short of orbit (unless you fly really, really well), the maximum orbit is not really that high actually, and the orbiter has only about 3-400m/ delta-v depending on RCS usage and payload or lack of.

-It requires a tricky roll maneuver right off the pad, and while it has plenty of control authority on the pitch axis, the lack of yaw verniers makes getting used to it a must. You WILL screw up the first launch unless you are lucky, fast and experienced, but when you know what to do at each step it is almost easy.

-Glides like a brick to a quite hard landing in the best of cases, and has the crossrange to make it to KSC only if you can already see it when the reentry flames stop. You need to go down steep to conserve speed, then flare up at the last second, or you will see a lot of booms when you hit the ground with >15m/s vertical speed. Getting it on the runway is not trivial for me, but I assure you, I have done it several times, even landing her in rough cross-country at some (not much, I admit) elevation. I'm not itching to try again that last one, though, it bounced quite spectacularly. Stick to sea level and flat terrain if you can.

-While generally well behaved when falling with style "gliding", with plenty of control authority regardless of being empty or full, you can flip her out if you get a really high angle of attack: that configuration isn't the most stable one in the first place, and therefore like the real one it likes flying upside down. It is, however, perfectly recoverable if you do flip her out of control, and you will probably do so in a futile attempt to slow the vertical velocity. That won't really work until you are pretty low on the atmosphere, at under 8-10kms.

-Unless you put some solar panels or use the solar panels in the payload in the modded version, it has no power generation equipment, meaning it runs on battery power like the real one (OK, fuel cells, but we don't have those in stock). Meaning if you start cartwheeling in orbit like a jet fighter or stay too long up there, you will run the batteries out and have to rely on "manual mode", keeping attitude control with the RCS system (and eating into your deorbit and maneuvering fuel). Manage your resources!

-And speaking of resources, particularly those financial, what about Funds? Well, it is also like the RL version in that it does save some. In fact, a lot, since the orbiter landed on the runway is worth about 50% the price of a new launch... But the whole thing is almost √90,000 to put on the pad, and I have a lot of rockets and SSTOs that go for less than √45k.

In short, very faithful to the original in all respects, and incredibly fun to fly! I call all of those features, and I'm sure you guys will LOVE them.

Now I think aesthetics deserve their own department. Just you look at it in orbit:

Even the underside looks good, all heatshielded and with the landing gear discreetly smoothed with the rest of the fuselage and stuff. You want to know the best part? There are NO cubic struts in the whole build, and only the single fuel line running between the ET and the orbiter. The wonders of using Ed Tools while building!

And that takes me to the next comment, BTW... how much do you think this beauty will slow down your machine? Well, if you pick up the modded version, that could actually happen slightly if you have a very potato computer, that one is slightly more "part intensive" at 130. BUT... the stock version, at 80 on the pad, puts many rockets to shame (yup, a bit of OCD here ^^'). Yeah, 80, not 800. I challenge anyone to do better, and if they do (with reasonable aesthetics)... well, then I owe them something, and they can start by doing with my pride as they like, there won't be much left. Update: The new upgraded version is a bit more wasteful, at twice the parts of the old one. Still, 160 parts for a stock shuttle with working payload bay is worth pointing out IMO.

And enough self-praise for one day, now go play with your new toy! I hope you like it as much as I do, and as you must know by now, I always like it when someone shows me what they did with my stuff ...But you also know, pics or it didn't happen!

Update! Now also with a stock cargo bay with working door!

To operate the payload bay door, you have instructions on the file, but the gist is you arm the Klaw, undock the locking docking ports, free the pivot on the Klaw, and voilà! You have a working stock cargo bay door that you can open and close by disabling the reaction wheels on the ship and working W and S. WARNING! Only try to engage in microgravity. She IS a bit uglier, especially on the no-longer-heatshielded underside, but it has the same performance, and you can't deny she is much cooler in function.

Important notes on the second version, with a part coming form a mod. That in itself is weird in me, since all other links in R-SUV are to 100% stock craft files. What can I say, it looks just too good not to use:

-The modded bay you can see in some pictures, and that you get with the second third file I give, comes from TT's Mk3 Expansion Pack, which you can get here. It is, however, on development hiatus, and you will have to modify the part to add a tech entry cost if you want to use it in career, I can show you how by PM so ask.

-You have two sample payloads, actually: a satellite with modest maneuvering capabilities and full Science!â„¢ compliment, and a MMU on the back to deploy it or just fool around with it, because it looks cool. All RCS and fuel tanks start disabled, and you should disable the RCS thrusters through action group 0 so they don't eat into your mono during launch.

-I also reserve the right to update the file without notice once I test that the wings making up the leading edge roots are indeed completely superfluous and 100% aesthetic, and can be removed to clean up the cargo bay. Or not, because I'm lazy, but you can try yourself, I have a hunch it would work pending testing.

IMGUR ALBUM:

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DOWNLOADS:

- Standard, 100% stock version without payload bay.

- Upgraded 100% Stock version with functional bay door and sample payload.

- Modded version with bay and sample payload.

Rune. Now why would I want to make things easy for myself? This way life's a challenge!

Edited July 24, 2014 by Rune

[GusTurbo]

Great shuttle! 80 parts is quite an achievement.

[Darth Lazarus]

is this true? is this even possible? oh my Kod Rune you are a champ .. take that rep !

edit: ... "you have to vbla bla rep before bla bla to Rune" ... grrr -.-"

[Rune]

Great shuttle! 80 parts is quite an achievement.

Thanks! I thought so too, but at least a sizeable part of the blame is ED Tools amazingly useful "enable/disable surface attachment" feature.

is this true? is this even possible? oh my Kod Rune you are a champ .. take that rep !

edit: ... "you have to vbla bla rep before bla bla to Rune" ... grrr -.-"

Alaways welcome anyhow . Go find some newbie that did something awesome and deserves the praise!

Rune. Now I'm off to the beach, with a smile of self-satisfaction on the face.

[Woopert]

How do you install the Mk3 cargo bay mod? Luckily, I made sure to download it before SpacePort was shut down but it's for an older version of KSP and therefore is just a Parts folder rather than GameData.

Anyways, brilliant work here! Rep for you (as if you don't have enough already )

[Gue__1]

Absolutely amazing! Now we just have to wait until we finally get a cargo bay door in stock KSP.

But I'm shocked that nobody has seen the typo in the title..... Syustem

Gue

[GusTurbo]

That's just how Rune says it, okay?

[Mareczex333]

Now just do this and voila ;d

[Rune]

How do you install the Mk3 cargo bay mod? Luckily, I made sure to download it before SpacePort was shut down but it's for an older version of KSP and therefore is just a Parts folder rather than GameData.

Anyways, brilliant work here! Rep for you (as if you don't have enough already )

Well, you can either create a new folder on gamedata, or just drop them in the root dir, ksp still recognizes the old part directories. The thing you have to change is inside the part.cfg of each part, and it should end up looking like this:

// --- editor parameters ---
TechRequired = heavyAerodynamics
entryCost = 15400
cost = 500
category = Structural
subcategory = 0
title = MK3 Cargo Bay
manufacturer = Torpedo Industries
description = On the discovery some people don't want to drop payloads from below, TT industries came up with the idea a kerbal could stand inside and throw junk overboard. It was discovered this idea works best in microgravity enviroments, mind. Unless you happen to have really, really buff Kerbals.

The rest of the file(s) works as is, you can leave it unchanged, and even most of the categories here are subjective and adjustable (TechRequired, cost, category, entryCost, the various flair texts). The important thing is to add the bits about where and for how much you buy it in the tech tree, otherwise it'll only work on sandbox.

That's just how Rune says it, okay?

It was indeed a typo, but I like the confidence! I just wish I finally got this "keyboard" thing. It and my fingers have had an all out war going on for some time, teh results of which you can see in the form of edits all around my posts. "Teh" is a classic.

Now just do this and voila ;d

Don't get me wrong, that would be exceedingly awesome. But it would probably triple the part count, too... besides playing havoc on aerodynamics, and maybe even weight. At something like 2.5mT payload, I can't fool around much without running out of room!

Rune. But I'm sure glad to see you guys are liking it! And intrigued by the stock bay, too.

[prophet_01]

Always nice to see a well enginered shuttle. It looks extraordinary considering its all stock and only 80 parts. Nice job

I wonder what it's fund recovery would be using a mod to recover those srb's.

[Thoendi]

WOW, looks just like the real thing! I must say those mod cargo bay doors are great.

And it's computer-friendly, KSP couldn't dream of a better space shuttle!

[Majorjim!]

Don't get me wrong, that would be exceedingly awesome. But it would probably triple the part count, too...

Hi Rune.

Even if it did triple the part count its still only 240 parts. Then at least it would have a use. Keeping the part count down is always a good idea but it shouldn't come at the cost of usability.

And the fact that the verniers keep it stable enough to overcome the thrust tourque they will have no trouble with the lift from those surfaces.

Give it a go!

MJ

[Rune]

Hi Rune.

Even if it did triple the part count its still only 240 parts. Then at least it would have a use. Keeping the part count down is always a good idea but it shouldn't come at the cost of usability.

And the fact that the verniers keep it stable enough to overcome the thrust tourque they will have no trouble with the lift from those surfaces.

Give it a go!

MJ

[grumbling]...Grrrr... now I have to go and mess with it again... I have too much to do already... Grrrr[/grumbling]...

...Wait, what is that you say? Sure, it sounds like a cool idea, I'll get right on it!

Truth be told, I'm more than a little scared at the amount of mistakes and reloads I will make trying to replicate that. I foresee a couple of very frustrating afternoons in the SPH with a lot of crashes and staring at the loading bar...

But also, making the bay out of lifting surfaces is going to make the glide back to earth completely different... it has so little lift right now, if I add all those perpendicular control surfaces, never mind the floor of the bay, it will probably fly better sideways when I'm done with it, and I don't even want to guess the short of CoM/CoL issues I'll have. Point is, don't expect it tomorrow.

Rune. But now it's too late, I have to do it. Damn you!

[Majorjim!]

[grumbling]...Grrrr... now I have to go and mess with it again... I have too much to do already... Grrrr[/grumbling]...

...Wait, what is that you say? Sure, it sounds like a cool idea, I'll get right on it!

Truth be told, I'm more than a little scared at the amount of mistakes and reloads I will make trying to replicate that. I foresee a couple of very frustrating afternoons in the SPH with a lot of crashes and staring at the loading bar...

But also, making the bay out of lifting surfaces is going to make the glide back to earth completely different... it has so little lift right now, if I add all those perpendicular control surfaces, never mind the floor of the bay, it will probably fly better sideways when I'm done with it, and I don't even want to guess the short of CoM/CoL issues I'll have. Point is, don't expect it tomorrow.

Rune. But now it's too late, I have to do it. Damn you!

Ha! I knew you couldnt resist a challenge. Have at it good sir.

[Rune]

Ha! I knew you couldnt resist a challenge. Have at it good sir.

I think I should thank you guys for the encouragement. This is actually easy!

here shown lacking all panelling and fully open, the degree of movement is good enough to take anything out that fits in, and the mechanism itself works like a charm every time. I can stop the door at any point in its swing, or leave it in position with SAS, it only uses electrical power to move at will, and it locks into place when you are done with it. Just a little setting up procedure that must be performed in microgravity once, and that can be done either through action groups or by hand. After that, a single Jr. docking port works as lock and the WS keys control it (I'm probably going to have to disable all other torque sources before doing this in space).

Now it is a metter of covering it up in a way that doesn't screw up the aerodynamics, and somehow making up for the increased weight (now I think the tight fuel margin was not such a great idea... as if it was intentional, ha! ), but after this, and the fact that right now it is still only 130 parts with the payload, I'm pretty optimistic about my odds of pulling this off. The guy that came up with klaws as hinges is a god. Wasn't that giggleplex, actually? I was reminded of the idea in a random google search.

Rune. This was supposed to be difficult, wasn't it?

[Darnok]

How is that working? Claw can grab part of same craft or you have to first undock cargo doors?

[Majorjim!]

The guy that came up with klaws as hinges is a god.

Rune. This was supposed to be difficult, wasn't it?

As soon as those movable claws where announced, EVERYBODY thought to use them

Like that!! It's the only part that can be moved lthat way.

Anywho, I look forward to seeing the finished thing mate. And yeah, after thousands of hours

Of KSP things just become easier!

Keep it up!

MJ

[Rune]

And yeah, after thousands of hours

Of KSP things just become easier!

That is SO true. Any skill, 10,000 hours, right?

How is that working? Claw can grab part of same craft or you have to first undock cargo doors?

Right now the procedure is: Arm the Klaw, undock the door, and the Klaw instantly grabs it without moving it (that part took a bit of finagling to get right, the Klaw is at just the right height to grab a toroidal tank under the hinge plate). After that, the docking port does indeed dock and undock like they were two ships, while they remain functionally a single entity regarding timewarp and such. In short, it works the best way it could possibly work.

Rune. I'm pretty pshyched my first craft with a Klaw is going to be a stock shuttle with cargo bay... can you tell?

[Majorjim!]

That is SO true. Any skill, 10,000 hours, right?

Right now the procedure is: Arm the Klaw, undock the door, and the Klaw instantly grabs it without moving it (that part took a bit of finagling to get right, the Klaw is at just the right height to grab a toroidal tank under the hinge plate). After that, the docking port does indeed dock and undock like they were two ships, while they remain functionally a single entity regarding timewarp and such. In short, it works the best way it could possibly work.

Rune. I'm pretty pshyched my first craft with a Klaw is going to be a stock shuttle with cargo bay... can you tell?

She's gunna be a beauty.

You must spread arou... Dammit!

[Rune]

She's gunna be a beauty.

You must spread arou... Dammit!

Yup, though the mod version is still going to win in the looks and functionality department. But for the purists out there...

That is the first orbit free of bugs (I think I am on the verge of a 0.24 reinstall, now bugs are crossing saves), in which I realized everything kind of works, and it is also kind of completely broken. After a near-perfect ascent without roll maneuver (from the runway) to a 69.999x70.024m orbit and dropping the payload, I am sitting at something like 160m/s without using the cabin's RCS. No freaking way the ET makes orbit now, of course, I dropped it with the apoapsis still inside the atmosphere (about 64kms). Then again, the first landing, I couldn't save it with the same finesse: she is even more of a brick now, and indeed wings placed like the ones on the bay don't work. In short, explosions ensued, this needs much more testing, and I have a feeling i have hit the T/W ceiling on the engine department, so the "finishing touches" could very well end up being a full rebuild.

Rune. And I'm doing this really in the single afternoon?

Edited July 24, 2014 by Rune

[Giggleplex777]

Adding all those lifting surfaces on my orbiter turned it into a giant samara. If only there were lighter and whiter structural parts.

[Jamie Logan]

Amazing!!!!!!

[Rune]

Amazing!!!!!!

Thanks! It'll be amazing-er by the time I'm done with it, hopefully.

Adding all those lifting surfaces on my orbiter turned it into a giant samara. If only there were lighter and whiter structural parts.

Hear hear! While mine is still controllable and landable, especially after I added a bit more lift (in the right axis) and structural rigidity, it has gained the roll stability of... I dunno, the most unstable thing you can think of. Meaning landing it is even more FUNâ„¢ now! Getting both wheels in the ground at the same time while you are taking care of the flare up maneuver takes skill now. Still, other axises seem unaffected, so I count myself lucky.

Rune. Or, you know, plain stock payload bays, that would be even easier.

[Rune]

Aaaand done! She doesn't fly, she soars! That is, she glides a bit better now if you discount the fact that it is quite squirrely in roll. But you no longer really need to conserve speed to do the final pull up even, so very land-able. I've done it without dropping the payload first! And my T/W fears turned out to be for naught: it seems I had neglected to check out whether all engines that were already there were indeed receiving fuel. Silly me, right? Two fuel lines later (bringing the total to 3) and 100kN more in the ass (actually, quite more, I dialled the SRBs a bit to keep up), it is back to pre-messing performance and makes a 100kmx25km transfer orbit reliably and with margin on the main engines alone, including the superflous roll maneuver and more than once fighting her more than I could have to get her back on track (it is very counter-intuitive the way you have to control yaw with an inverted roll due to the wings being there! takes getting used to).

That leaves little for the OMS to do but deorbit and maneuver her around. You can save that RCS for attitude control, because now that it has probes and payload bay action, you are going to run out of batteries easier. A lesson on the importance of T/W during launch, since I added no propellant and quite a bit of mass. And, you know, lucky me!

Regarding the stock cargo bay... well, it's a stock cargo bay. And it works. 100% of the time. Hit "6" to arm the Klaw, 5 to undock the door, and from then on free the pivot on the Klaw, and you lock/unlock it by docking the ports. To open and close, I've also added action group 4 to turn off the reaction wheels on the body of the shuttle, that way you can move the door to open position and lock the pivot before the rest of the shuttle really starts turning seriously. But all that is in the description, go check it out!

Oh, and before I go, I imagine a few of you will be wondering how much of my part count magic I was able to apply in this complicated redesign... well, I went "overboard" on parts to a whooping 160, which is exactly twice the original. Not bad, huh? Whackjob would throw up inside his mouth if he saw this thread.

Rune. Head to the OP for the file!

Edited July 25, 2014 by Rune

[Comrade Jenkens]

Rune stop it! You're outpacing the rate at which I can give you rep!