0.25 Discussion thread

[EnderSpace]

Hello and Welcome to...

0.25 Discussion thread ( have some dev hints )

Rules

1. Don't Talk about 0.26 , please

2. Don't Spam

3. Enjoy

Edited September 19, 2014 by EnderSpace

[KasperVld]

The new EVA suit is for the cinematics only, not for the game itself (for now?)

[PDCWolf]

It was confirmed (hell, it's in the image too) that the spacesuit is for cinematics only, but hey, at least they did something.

Edited August 15, 2014 by sjwt
Removing 'Retarded'

[EnderSpace]

The new EVA suit is for the cinematics only, not for the game itself (for now?)

Yes but since it's upcoming in future update I should put it in

[Alshain]

Yes but since it's upcoming in future update I should put it in

No, it's not. They have said nothing about it being in the game. It may never be in the game.

[EnderSpace]

No, it's not. They have said nothing about it being in the game. It may never be in the game.

Why life is cruel

[dryer_lint]

I want to know what the Administration Building does

[WololoW]

Good of to see that the list is already being compiled!

No, it's not. They have said nothing about it being in the game. It may never be in the game.

If you look at the picture that squad posted(that is in the OP) about the new cinematic EVA suits, it says "Check it out in the upcoming game cinematics."

You can take that however you want, but objectively there is nothing that states they(the cinematics and the cinematic EVA suits) won't be in game.

Please try being more helpful to the rest of the community, or at the least don't sound so rude.

p.s. You even say in your post that they "may never" which allows for them to possibly be... So why sound so dismissive?

p.p.s.

I want to know what the Administration Building does

dont we all, don't we all. =)

Edited August 14, 2014 by WololoW
Clarity

[RocketPilot573]

I hope something gets done with that atmosphere... After all, the plane parts are being redone.

[Red Iron Crown]

Honestly, I wish they spent less time on the cinematics. If the devnotes are any indication, they take man-weeks of work, man-weeks that could be spent making more or better art assets for the game. Seems like a ton of effort for a couple of minute long video that few people will watch more than once, if at all.

That and it's a bit misrepresentative of the game to have better models and graphics in promotional materials. Not quite a bullshot as it's not claimed to be in game footage, but it's a bit disappointing that all that model and texture work doesn't make it into the game.

[r4pt0r]

Honestly, I wish they spent less time on the cinematics. If the devnotes are any indication, they take man-weeks of work, man-weeks that could be spent making more or better art assets for the game. Seems like a ton of effort for a couple of minute long video that few people will watch more than once, if at all.

That and it's a bit misrepresentative of the game to have better models and graphics in promotional materials. Not quite a bullshot as it's not claimed to be in game footage, but it's a bit disappointing that all that model and texture work doesn't make it into the game.

Ive always found that the munar surface in the update videos looks so much brighter and better than the in game mun. also I agree about the division of labor. I would happily take just a 500x600 jpeg detailing the update if it meant our animators spent time adding simple "collect surface sample" or other animations to the actual game.

[EnderSpace]

What I really only want is ........

BLACK HOLES!!!!!!

there is 0.5% chance to see it in GUI and when you reach it you have 90% to die and 10% to go future , and when you back to earth there will be cities , new planets , English language and terrformed duna

i know what you guys saying its 99% impossible

[Wanderfound]

What I really only want is ........

BLACK HOLES!!!!!!

there is 0.5% chance to see it in GUI and when you reach it you have 90% to die and 10% to go future , and when you back to earth there will be cities , new planets , English language and terrformed duna

i know what you guys saying its 99% impossible

A lot more than 99%. You're going to be pulped long before you get anywhere near the event horizon. Reinforcing your ship won't help; the forces involved are strong enough to distort atomic structure. Read up on neutron stars and then consider that black holes are a lot more powerful than that.

[EnderSpace]

A lot more than 99%. You're going to be pulped long before you get anywhere near the event horizon. Reinforcing your ship won't help; the forces involved are strong enough to distort atomic structure. Read up on neutron stars and then consider that black holes are a lot more powerful than that.

Yep but what about reality , is Kerbals real , Magic Boulder real yep none of it are real no need for full reality just something to go for adventure and exploration that my gaming way

[Daishi]

Ive always found that the munar surface in the update videos looks so much brighter and better than the in game mun. also I agree about the division of labor. I would happily take just a 500x600 jpeg detailing the update if it meant our animators spent time adding simple "collect surface sample" or other animations to the actual game.

They've already been animated, shown in a dev blog before 0.20 was released. Of course they might have had a massive nightmare getting these through unity, I've had pretty bad experiences personally. Who knows.

Remember Squad needs more paying consumers to keep development ticking along. The best way to do that is create successful promotional animations that get people pumped and enthusiastic about buying and playing the game. Most of us here have already purchased KSP so we're not exactly the crowd they really need to please right now.

That, and while the coders are still working out the core game mechanics, the modellers and animators need something to do in the meantime. There's no point pouring hundreds of manhours into in-game animations that would likely need to be scrapped when they implement a brand new Kerbal model later on down the track. Promotional videos are a sensible choice until the game is feature complete, where everyone can collectively step back and start polishing it.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Daishi

[CaptRobau]

Honestly, I wish they spent less time on the cinematics. If the devnotes are any indication, they take man-weeks of work, man-weeks that could be spent making more or better art assets for the game. Seems like a ton of effort for a couple of minute long video that few people will watch more than once, if at all.

That and it's a bit misrepresentative of the game to have better models and graphics in promotional materials. Not quite a bullshot as it's not claimed to be in game footage, but it's a bit disappointing that all that model and texture work doesn't make it into the game.

That's what you get when you have a PR company turn game company.

[KerbMav]

I want to know what the Administration Building does

I can hear the dinosaurs coming for you.

[Capt Snuggler]

Honestly, I wish they spent less time on the cinematics. If the devnotes are any indication, they take man-weeks of work, man-weeks that could be spent making more or better art assets for the game. Seems like a ton of effort for a couple of minute long video that few people will watch more than once, if at all.

you read my mind.

I do like cinematics but it is clear they take up allot of dev time that I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer was spent on creating content.

that said, maybe the kerbal animation rigs could/will be used for the kerbals in game.

EDIT*

Remember Squad needs more paying consumers to keep development ticking along. The best way to do that is create successful promotional animations that get people pumped and enthusiastic about buying and playing the game. Most of us here have already purchased KSP so we're not exactly the crowd they really need to please right now.

That, and while the coders are still working out the core game mechanics, the modellers and animators need something to do in the meantime. There's no point pouring hundreds of manhours into in-game animations that would likely need to be scrapped when they implement a brand new Kerbal model later on down the track. Promotional videos are a sensible choice until the game is feature complete, where everyone can collectively step back and start polishing it.

this is a good point. hadn't thought of that.

if squad needs more money make and sell more merch! figurines, model kits for ship parts ect.

I would pay an obscene amount of money for a Mk1-2 command pod with Jeb Bill and Bob figures that fit inside.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Capt Snuggler

[Frank_G]

To be honest, it would be pretty much stupid to waste 16.5k of polygons on an ingame kerbal. They are usually taking only very little screen space and are quite good looking right now. And i bet, the current model uses even less then the former cinematic models 6.5k polygons. For example the team fortress characters use between 6 and 10k of polygons and they need it, because they use far more screen presence than a kerbal. Better spend some polys on equipment and tools, that kerbals could carry into the field.

Spending less time on the cinematics would be nice, if the output of ingame stuff would increase that way. But one should not forget, that one group of devs advancing faster than the others could destabilize the asset creation and lead to hours of work spent in stuff, that wont be needed later, leaving the customer with the same update progression and no cinematic and the modelers frustrated...

[Red Iron Crown]

Remember Squad needs more paying consumers to keep development ticking along. The best way to do that is create successful promotional animations that get people pumped and enthusiastic about buying and playing the game. Most of us here have already purchased KSP so we're not exactly the crowd they really need to please right now.

I dunno, personally I've never bought a game based on a prerendered trailer, I always wait for reviews with in-game views first, or a playable demo. I'd have to think that those efforts directed at making the game itself look better would have about the same effect on sales.

That, and while the coders are still working out the core game mechanics, the modellers and animators need something to do in the meantime. There's no point pouring hundreds of manhours into in-game animations that would likely need to be scrapped when they implement a brand new Kerbal model later on down the track. Promotional videos are a sensible choice until the game is feature complete, where everyone can collectively step back and start polishing it.

I find it difficult to imagine a new kerbal model wouldn't be the one recently made for cinematics.

[John FX]

The thing that frustrates me lately is things like the surface collection animation being shown before 0.20 not making into the game when so much work is being put into very very similar (in look, not substance) animations for cinematics.

When we are shown finished animations for surface collection etc and all that has to be done is (in the same way as every other character animation) put it into the game but it just does not get done it`s almost insulting when a shiny new kerbal is shown off...

*golf clap* well done, you animated a kerbal with loads of polygons. Now animate a kerbal in the way that matters...

It has been stated directly that the cinematic model will never get into the game by the way.

[JayCheetah]

Remember Squad needs more paying consumers to keep development ticking along. The best way to do that is create successful promotional animations that get people pumped and enthusiastic about buying and playing the game. Most of us here have already purchased KSP so we're not exactly the crowd they really need to please right now.

Why do I have the feeling that most people that would play KSP, are already playing it. Investing in great cinematics will unlikely result in a huge boost in sales.

That, and while the coders are still working out the core game mechanics, the modellers and animators need something to do in the meantime. There's no point pouring hundreds of manhours into in-game animations that would likely need to be scrapped when they implement a brand new Kerbal model later on down the track. Promotional videos are a sensible choice until the game is feature complete, where everyone can collectively step back and start polishing it.

You can't tell me you honoustly believe that the modellers and animators are sitting at their desk picking their nose? As of 24.2, the mobile science lab still does not have an IVA or maybe they can do an overhaul of all IVA's. Can't remember the exact name of the cockpit, but one of the ones used for spaceplanes is also an empty unfinished IVA.

Now those are projects that will keep them busy for a while and will result in happier current players, aswell as future players will be happy about it.

While I am at it "attacking" the modellers and animators.... How about enhancing the planets/moons textures a bit.

I dunno, personally I've never bought a game based on a prerendered trailer, I always wait for reviews with in-game views first, or a playable demo. I'd have to think that those efforts directed at making the game itself look better would have about the same effect on sales.

Completely agree with this. It's silly to think that people will buy the game based on a trailer.

[Daishi]

Why do I have the feeling that most people that would play KSP, are already playing it. Investing in great cinematics will unlikely result in a huge boost in sales.

Anything helps. And i agree, for a game that has been in development for a fair few years, it is likely the sales have already peaked. They need to keep pushing out the promos.

You can't tell me you honoustly believe that the modellers and animators are sitting at their desk picking their nose? As of 24.2, the mobile science lab still does not have an IVA or maybe they can do an overhaul of all IVA's. Can't remember the exact name of the cockpit, but one of the ones used for spaceplanes is also an empty unfinished IVA.

Now those are projects that will keep them busy for a while and will result in happier current players, aswell as future players will be happy about it.

While I am at it "attacking" the modellers and animators.... How about enhancing the planets/moons textures a bit.

I'm sure they have specific priorities and a roadmap of things to do, but remember there's only about three digital content creators on the team (and keep in mind that the list is outdated by a fair bit). Its about balancing the work output they have in the most fiscally responsible way, and marketing for the game is important to keep sales coming in. Remember this was Felipe's project that Squad propped up - they need to keep it profitable or else Squad may decide its not worth keeping the lights on, and simply end production. I don't want to see that happen before they add proper aero, the admin and all the other bits the game needs to be feature complete; wasting resources adding interiors and polishing planets nobody is going to see in the outdated demo or amongst a community that has already spent their money.

Completely agree with this. It's silly to think that people will buy the game based on a trailer.

They won't, but it will get them talking, lead them to the demo, and the demo will lead them here.

Edit - And an addendum. Remember that most of us are veteran players here, and have squeezed as much out of the game as we can. Adding new IVA's for us is fruitless when any new players bagged by these promos have an entire solar system to explore (with engaging contracts and budgets), and would happily play the game for a year or two before even realising there were inadequacies to begin with. It doesn't make sense to waste money polishing things like that now, especially where there are mods to fill in the gaps for the veterans in the meantime.

And I'd gather the spaceplane revisions were only polished for 0.25 because they had an intern to do them for free, while the main devs kept chugging along with no interruptions to their development roadmap.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Daishi

[GusTurbo]

To be honest, it would be pretty much stupid to waste 16.5k of polygons on an ingame kerbal. They are usually taking only very little screen space and are quite good looking right now. And i bet, the current model uses even less then the former cinematic models 6.5k polygons. For example the team fortress characters use between 6 and 10k of polygons and they need it, because they use far more screen presence than a kerbal. Better spend some polys on equipment and tools, that kerbals could carry into the field.

What they will likely do is use the 16.5k poly cinematic model to create a normal map for a lower poly in-game model. I would be really shocked if they didn't do this.

[EnderSpace]

Oh yeah I checked planned features and look what I find ( http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Planned_features#Flight_Operations )

suit is coming in the next update science it's colored with blue