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[1.0.5] Snacks! Kerbal simplified life support v0.3.5

tgruetzm

By tgruetzm
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Murdabenne

Murdabenne

Posted
Posted
Would you mind adding this mod to CKAN?

I can generate the netkan file if I get time later this week, that'll have it in CKAN within 6 hours of me submitting it.

Just wondering if CTN can "donate" his snack packs to be part of this as base to the mod, and avoid the need for 2 addons. I'll also add in a config file (stuff from the posts here) for KAS and TL/Cost for the snack packs if the authors want to iunclude that into a unified mod.

And BTW, when will this be marked Beta or regualr release? The baseline snack mechanic seems to have become settled and stable, with only tuning/values in flux, not the algorithms.

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passinglurker

passinglurker

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Just wondering if CTN can "donate" his snack packs to be part of this as base to the mod, and avoid the need for 2 addons.

A million times no. I don't know how many times I've had to say it now Crew cans are your snack tanks dedicated snack parts are not in any way needed in fact they go against the mods balance, its philosophy of simplicity, and its feature of encouraging you to build ships with living space proportional to the length of the voyage. The hitchhiker can and other crew tanks as the bulk snack storage part is a brilliantly elegant solution that not only eliminates the need for extra parts but again encourages you to provide living space for your kerbals without the need for more complex code WHY DO YOU ALL WANT TO RUIN THAT!?

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Capt. Hunt

Capt. Hunt

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Posted (edited)

Hey,

I might have a bit of a bug, I'm using snacks, and I just launched a mission with the KSO EWBCL. For some reason, the shuttle didn't have any snacks. There wasn't an empty tank, so I know it wasn't user error, it just didn't have any. If I understand this mod right, Snacks storage is procedurally generated based on the crew capacity. The Shuttle has a crew of six, so it should have 300 snacks, right? I know the mod is working, because my other ships have snacks (and I was able to add extra snack storage to the shuttle's payload), and I know the other crewed KSO parts have snacks, but I'm not sure what's going on here. I also posted in the KSO thread, but I thought this was more of a Snacks! issue.

Using the snacks! files as a guide, I tried adding a Snacks resource to the KSO, but no luck.

maybe my syntax is wrong, here's what I added to the part file:

{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Snacks
		amount = 300
		maxAmount = 300
	}
}

Edit: I don't know why that didn't work, I also tried adding an entry for ut in the Snacks! Patch.cfg file, which didn't work. However I was able to add Snacks to another part, which confirms my syntax is right.

Fortunately, this meant I was able to jury rig a work around. Since the cabin wouldn't work, I added 300 snacks to the shuttle's nose cone piece instead.

Yes, Lurker, I know it's not a manned part, but it beat flying every mission longer then six hours with a hitchhiker in the payload bay, and it's not like I can use the nose cone for anything else.

Edit Again: I suspect the culprit was an old version of Interstellar Fuel Switch, I happened to download a new version of that and now the EWBCL cabin has 300 snacks, just like it should. Now I just have to remove the snacks from the nose cone :)

Edited by Capt. Hunt
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aazo5

aazo5

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Posted

Is it possible to transport snacks to certain modules without having them docked? Because I have a Minmus base that is comprised of multiple undocked building, and want to know how to support them. Can a kerbal carry snacks from a supplies craft to the different buildings?

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Capt. Hunt

Capt. Hunt

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if you have snacks packs or some similar kerbal portable container you can, otherwise it'll be limited to one snack per EVA. You can however pump snacks through KAS hoses, if you've parked your resupply lander close enough.

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aazo5

aazo5

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Posted
if you have snacks packs or some similar kerbal portable container you can, otherwise it'll be limited to one snack per EVA. You can however pump snacks through KAS hoses, if you've parked your resupply lander close enough.

Alright, thanks. So I can theoretically carry snacks from one to another with just my Kerbal?

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JPLRepo

JPLRepo

Posted
Posted

Hi there.

I am the mod author of DeepFreeze Continued...

I have an issue with Snacks compatibility that is caused by incomplete Module Manager syntax in your patch.cfg file that you distribute with Snacks.

The issue is you are not using the :FOR[snacks] syntax in your MM file and therefore your MM config file is not running in the correct sequence, resulting in other MM config files being overwritten and/or unable to override each other. If you could make this change then our mods would work well together. :)

If you change the syntax in your patch.cfg to have :FOR[snacks] at the end of every @PART line in your file then everything works well together.

Example:


@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[1]][B]:FOR[Snacks][/B]
.........
@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[2]][B]:FOR[Snacks][/B]
.........
etc....

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Murdabenne

Murdabenne

Posted
Posted (edited)
A million times no. I don't know how many times I've had to say it now Crew cans are your snack tanks dedicated snack parts are not in any way needed in fact they go against the mods balance, its philosophy of simplicity, and its feature of encouraging you to build ships with living space proportional to the length of the voyage. The hitchhiker can and other crew tanks as the bulk snack storage part is a brilliantly elegant solution that not only eliminates the need for extra parts but again encourages you to provide living space for your kerbals without the need for more complex code WHY DO YOU ALL WANT TO RUIN THAT!?

"RUIN"? Overreact much? Dont have a cow man. Its neither complex nor unbalancing that someone might want to use this mod or expand the "reach" of snacks to the KIS system because it seems like a bit of additional fun. FYI, its a game, someone else might like something you don't, get over yourself. I was simply trying to help.

I was asking the snack packs be added because they are a natural fit to the system. Making them part of a single mod is the natiural way to do things, especially since the mod's author links directly to the Snack Packs himself. I am offering to help by trying to compose a package for inclusion into CKAN (as someone else requested). Please calm down.

Edited by Murdabenne
typos
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Murdabenne

Murdabenne

Posted
Posted (edited)

I wonder if someone might want to do a meta-package for all these, incorporating the configs and fixes posted here (including the compatibility fix above)? What permissions would be required?

This is a more to my liking than TACLS or one of the other more intricate multi-resource systems. Just something simple, easy to manage, but still imposes consequences on long missions, or abandoning Kerbals in weird orbits or getting them stuck in difficult places (I'm looking at you Eve).

If I knew more c# and graphics, Id attempt it myself. Maybe I should?

Edited by Murdabenne
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Epiphanic

Epiphanic

Posted
Posted (edited)

I really like the Snacks! take on life support. The "randomish" snack consumption adds a dimension that doesn't exist in other life support mods. I also have some potential ideas related to this exchange regarding kerbal traits.

Each kerbal has two ratings, Stupidity and Courage. Instead of having snacking varience a function of both traits, simply making it a function of Stupidity. This trait should determine a kerbal's "snacking variance" (how many snacks are consumed each meal). The stupider the kerbal, the greater the variance. A 100% Stupid kerbal would either eat 0 snacks or 2 snacks each meal. A 0% Stupid kerbal would always eat 1 snack per meal. Perhaps some formula like Stupid/2 = probablility that 0 or 2 snacks are consumed and the remainder is 1 snack consumed.

Courage would determine a kerbal's fortitude during a snack shortage. At meal time, a kerbal tries to eat some number of snacks. If there are not enough snacks, then that kerbal would have a "snack deficit" and would suffer ill-effects. There are two ill-effects:

1. Non-lethal - When under a snack deficit, a that kerbal suffers a delayed reaction. A larger deficit leads to a larger reaction delay. Perhaps something like [baseReactionDelay*SnackDeficit = EffectiveDelay]. EffectiveDelay would be mediated by some function of Courage.

2. Lethal - If a kerbal has a snack deficit" at meal time, he runs the risk of dying from hunger. Again, the larger the deficit the more likely of death. As an example, let's say that once a kerbal reaches a snack deficit of 10, he has a 100% risk of death. So a kerbal that has a snack deficit of 1 would have a 10% chance of death that meal time. At the next meal, that kerbal would have a 20% chance of death because he has a snack deficit of 2. This increases in a similar fashion until the limit (in this case, 10). A kerbal's Courage would lower that chance of death in a similar way it lowers it's reaction delay.

If kerbal's have a snack deficit and gain access to more snacks, they will immediately consume enough snacks to bring them to 0 thus saving them from suffering any further ill-effects. Furthermore, these ill-effects could be set via a .cfg file allowing people to customize Snacks! to their liking (even perhaps turning off either or both of the ill-effects).

Hopefully I've adequately described these suggestions and they wouldn't be too difficult to implement if you think they are a good idea.

Edited by Epiphanic
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FungusForge

FungusForge

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Posted
> You can however pump snacks through KAS hoses

Visualising a snack hose is somehow incredible entertaining.

Somehow that makes me think of Invader Zim.

Actually thinking about it the Irken are short, green, aren't terribly intelligent, have big heads, and really like snacks. The Kerbals are also short, green, aren't terribly intelligent, have big heads, and really like snacks. The only major difference is the Kerbals aren't utterly obsessed with galactic conquest. Yet.

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  • 3 months later...
Blaarkies

Blaarkies

Posted
Posted (edited)
[quote name='JPLRepo']Is anyone still actively using or working on this mod?
Has anyone testing with 1.0.5 yet?[/QUOTE]

I am using it. I love it, it's awesome and still works in KSP 1.0.5.

Stuff not fixed:
- Rescue contract kerbals spawn in a capsule that has 0 snacks. I still get the reputation penalty for them being hungry, even though their not my kerbals yet(never entered the 2.3km physics bubble). So i ignore any "Rescue Derp from orbit of the sun" contracts: I leave a probe controlled lander can with like 400dv on each space station. If a new contract leave one stranded in Minimus orbit, i can quickly get him some snacks at least.
- MK3 Passenger module(16 crew capacity) might not have snacks, see you might have to fix "patch.cfg"

Everything else works perfectly fine(i just re added snacks weight for myself...seems to be more "can't have it all") Edited by Blaarkies
MK3 patch
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Blaarkies

Blaarkies

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On 11/26/2015, 2:56:15, roarke said:

This plugin overwrites vanilla files in KSP ?

Nope, doesn't overwrite any files.
It uses "Module Manager"(a .dll only mod that is like a programming language for ksp parts, it edits parts without touching their part.cfg files -> it gives you a "temporary" version of a parts with your modifications that is created).

So Snacks! just modifies parts that has crew capacity, adding a snacks resource to them. this change only exists in your RAM. If you run the same savegame without this mod, then suddenly all notions of snacks on your vessels will be forgotten, as if the mod was never installed to begin with.

This mod is awesome because it is so abstract. If you don't like micromanaging too many stuff, this mod hits the spot.
-You have to think about how much extra crew capacity parts you want to add to your interplanetary ship(A Hitchhiker could support 1 kerbal about 800 days...that's about enough for a Duna flyby mission?)
-Perfect cheapest Hohmann transfers aren't that good for manned missions anymore(because the longer transit time costs more snacks->mass->cost). It let's you use real-life early intercepts, which cost more dv but less snacks...which might be more efficient.

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roarke

roarke

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Posted
On 12/3/2015, 11:05:02, Blaarkies said:

Nope, doesn't overwrite any files.
It uses "Module Manager"(a .dll only mod that is like a programming language for ksp parts, it edits parts without touching their part.cfg files -> it gives you a "temporary" version of a parts with your modifications that is created).

So Snacks! just modifies parts that has crew capacity, adding a snacks resource to them. this change only exists in your RAM. If you run the same savegame without this mod, then suddenly all notions of snacks on your vessels will be forgotten, as if the mod was never installed to begin with.

This mod is awesome because it is so abstract. If you don't like micromanaging too many stuff, this mod hits the spot.
-You have to think about how much extra crew capacity parts you want to add to your interplanetary ship(A Hitchhiker could support 1 kerbal about 800 days...that's about enough for a Duna flyby mission?)
-Perfect cheapest Hohmann transfers aren't that good for manned missions anymore(because the longer transit time costs more snacks->mass->cost). It let's you use real-life early intercepts, which cost more dv but less snacks...which might be more efficient.

Thanks. They will die ? And why is this a "is a Kerbal simplification of life support" ? I didn't played the latest Kerbal version. Does the latest kerbal version has a default life support ?

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Blaarkies

Blaarkies

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, roarke said:

Thanks. They will die ? And why is this a "is a Kerbal simplification of life support" ? I didn't played the latest Kerbal version. Does the latest kerbal version has a default life support ?

On default this mod will NOT kill them, even if they are without snacks on the way to Eelo. You can change this by opening up the "...GameData\Snacks\PluginData\Snacks\snacks.cfg" file and changing "kerbalDeath = False" to a "kerbalDeath = True". This should kill kerbals at meal time if there is no meal(not sure if it has a grace period).
However, with or without death, you will take a reputation penalty hit for every meal time, everyday kerbals are hungry...this could "kill" your space program if you dont pay attention to it.

There is no stock life support as of KSP 1.0.5, with no mods you may leave kerbal out in the void of space for years on end...nothing will happen to them or to you for doing that(you monster!) :P
Snacks! is simplified relative to the other lifesupport mods out there(where you need oxygen+water+food+equipment to maintain a cozy room temperature inside and all that). Snacks doesnt need micromanaging, the only rules is to know how many "days" away from kerbin(or other planetary base) your kerbals are, otherwise your resupply trips will be too late(my kerbin space station is only "2 duna landings" old, and i have resupplied it 3 times now)
 

If you are familiar with the basics then you are ready for this mod, but it takes a few missions to learn how much snacks to pack(My first few interplanetary missions still had tons of snacks left when i returned...just to be safe ;) )

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  • 5 weeks later...
Angelo Kerman

Angelo Kerman

Posted
Posted (edited)

I had a random thought today at lunch. Instead of randomly consuming two snacks, the kerbal experiences a "food coma" and takes a nap for an hour. That way your snack supply is more predictable, but your kerbals might need a nap every now and then. When taking a nap the become tourists. That would be an option you can toggle. Anyway, just a thought. :)

Edited by Angel-125
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Mr Betelgeuse

Mr Betelgeuse

Posted
Posted
On 6/9/2015 at 2:18 AM, passinglurker said:

A million times no. I don't know how many times I've had to say it now Crew cans are your snack tanks dedicated snack parts are not in any way needed in fact they go against the mods balance, its philosophy of simplicity, and its feature of encouraging you to build ships with living space proportional to the length of the voyage. The hitchhiker can and other crew tanks as the bulk snack storage part is a brilliantly elegant solution that not only eliminates the need for extra parts but again encourages you to provide living space for your kerbals without the need for more complex code WHY DO YOU ALL WANT TO RUIN THAT!?

Absolutely!

What I love about Snacks is that if you're going on a long Voyage, you're gonna need a lot of supplies. And with supplies you're gonna do living space and living quarters. That's the thing I dislike about USI and TAC: they give you life support but they don't give you living space. I remember with USI I had a 3 man command module, and just slapped a bunch of food modules and boom: Done. But now, I have to put on the science module, and the hitch hiker module, and all that but without Kerbals. It simulates the idea that your Kerbals walk around and stretch their legs. 

However that's not to say there's a few flaws with this system. If you're going on a very long journey, like really long, it's going to be very near impossible. Imagine you install Other_Worlds, and want to get there without something like the Alcubierre Drive... Especially if you won't do any landings. It would be nice to have this mod work with some sort of cryogenic freezing mod. 

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