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[1.0.5] Snacks! Kerbal simplified life support v0.3.5

tgruetzm

By tgruetzm
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Mr Betelgeuse

Mr Betelgeuse

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Blaarkies said:

DeepFreeze Continued -(By JPLRepo)

You might be looking for that, it seems to be compatible

I really don't like that mod. It's mainly the aesthetics of that mod. It just isn't stock alike for something like Snacks (which to me seems Stock alike). I'd get it if I was going for full out realism with TAC LS/

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Blaarkies

Blaarkies

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Betelgeuse said:

I really don't like that mod. It's mainly the aesthetics of that mod. It just isn't stock alike for something like Snacks (which to me seems Stock alike). I'd get it if I was going for full out realism with TAC LS/

Well as a last resort, you could use Mobile Science Lab patch(somewhere in this thread, or i think it's in the last release of snacks). It makes your MPL convert Ore -> Snacks. That sounds ridiculous, so let's just imagine there is some advanced hydroponics inside the lab and the oxidizer and "stuff" from the Ore is used to keep this process going.


Anyway, I am actually currently testing a ship design that kind of  resembles the mothership from the martian, the Hermes is it? So it has an ISRU,drill,claw, 4 large Ore containers and a lab onboard(also space for 16crew, but i doubt i can feed 16kerbals any further than Duna)...so i imagine using it at Dres(where apparently the asteroids "hang on trees")
I hope this could support a Jool mission...

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  • 3 weeks later...
eberkain

eberkain

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have yet to use the mod, but I am definitely going to make the swap and check it out when I get home.  I like the idea of making snacks from ore, if you had the seeds, soil and a water recycler then the main thing you would need is a source of fertilizer.  

Edited by eberkain
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Geschosskopf

Geschosskopf

Posted
Posted
On 2/5/2016 at 8:00 AM, eberkain said:

I have yet to use the mod, but I am definitely going to make the swap and check it out when I get home.  I like the idea of making snacks from ore, if you had the seeds, soil and a water recycler then the main thing you would need is a source of fertilizer.  

No need for seeds or anything as old-fashioned as hydroponics.  Pretty much all we eat is made of CHON (carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen).  These elements must be present in Ore (along with various other essential elements) if you can make rocket fuels out of it.  So you break the Ore down into its elements, from which you can build sugars, starches, proteins, etc., and mix them together into something edible, nutritious, and doubtless tasting like the Mun dust from which it came :D.  IOW, food straight from dirt, no intervening biological entities like plants and animals required.  This has sometimes been used in science fiction to solve world hunger.

In any case, @tgruetzm, I like this solution.  I also like the masslessness of Snacks!  Dealing with the conservation of mass is IMHO one of the main sources of problems and complexity with other life support mods.  I like your outside-the-box thinking to just dodge the issue entirely :D

 

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Elkram

Elkram

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 15/4/2016 at 6:14 AM, Angel-125 said:

Me too! If @tgruetzm doesn't update it soon, I will :)

That sounds cool. I'd do the same if I had coding skills. But I dont. :(

Once 1.1 is released i plan on playing a career with your pathfinder and buffalo and adding snacks as a life support mod sounds like a good idea

Edited by Elkram
Adding stuff.
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Angelo Kerman

Angelo Kerman

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Elkram said:

That sounds cool. I'd do the same if I had coding skills. But I dont. :(

Once 1.1 is released i plan on playing a career with your pathfinder and buffalo and adding snacks as a life support mod sounds like a good idea

Cool. :) KSP 1.1 is in flux so if we don't get a Snacks update, I'll fork it once KSP 1.1 is officially released.

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Angelo Kerman

Angelo Kerman

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Algiark said:

Sooo... 1.1 is out. When will this get an update? I really like Snacks...

Sooo... KSP 1.1 is not even a week old. Mods take time to update. I'm finishing up Pathfinder first. I don't give out ETAs, but I'd like to have Snacks updated next week ideally. We'll see, depends upon how long it takes me to finish what's on my plate. :)

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Wolf Baginski

Wolf Baginski

Posted
Posted

Snacks seem very Kerbalish to me as a way of modelling life support, and I am happy to know they will still be around.

The various add-on snack containers and greenhouses are also good. I've been doing some checking of changes to part.cfg files, and a lot of v1.05 things should work without problems. I'm cautious about items that use animations.

The key item is the actual plug-in.

It will be a while before I launch a mission lasting long enough for extra snack storage to matter. I may knock up something for one of the cylindrical batteries which has reduced battery capacity. Something such as a Z-200 with only 150 battery capacity and 50 snacks. Does that sound a plausible balance? Maybe a bit less battery, but something that could combine with the Mk1 Capsule.

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Angelo Kerman

Angelo Kerman

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Wolf Baginski said:

Snacks seem very Kerbalish to me as a way of modelling life support, and I am happy to know they will still be around.

The various add-on snack containers and greenhouses are also good. I've been doing some checking of changes to part.cfg files, and a lot of v1.05 things should work without problems. I'm cautious about items that use animations.

The key item is the actual plug-in.

It will be a while before I launch a mission lasting long enough for extra snack storage to matter. I may knock up something for one of the cylindrical batteries which has reduced battery capacity. Something such as a Z-200 with only 150 battery capacity and 50 snacks. Does that sound a plausible balance? Maybe a bit less battery, but something that could combine with the Mk1 Capsule.

The original premise behind Snacks is that any part that has crew capacity is your snacks storage container. :) There is some brilliant simple elegance with that solution: for long duration flights you need more snacks. Since parts with crew capacity are your storage containers, by design you end up with a lot of crew space. And that makes sense, you wouldn't want to spend years in a cramped cockpit.

I would think that any snacks container would be small to preserve tgruetzm's vision for the mod. Something that is a dedicated part that holds something like 50 snacks. At 1 liter per snack, it wouldn't be very big.

So if tgruetzm doesn't come back soon, I'll probably have to create a continuation since I really enjoy the mod. I've tried other life support mods, but they end up being too complicated for my play style. If that happens then the core mod will keep the original premise, with maybe the addition of a small snack pack, the ability to toggle the random snacking, and possibly implementing the death penalty. My other mods have snacks containers for resupply but the break the core premise, so you won't see them in Snacks itself.

Also, it looks like I missed a couple of things in yesterday's update, so expect a bug fix later today or tomorrow.

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Geschosskopf

Geschosskopf

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

The original premise behind Snacks is that any part that has crew capacity is your snacks storage container. :) There is some brilliant simple elegance with that solution: for long duration flights you need more snacks. Since parts with crew capacity are your storage containers, by design you end up with a lot of crew space. And that makes sense, you wouldn't want to spend years in a cramped cockpit.

I would think that any snacks container would be small to preserve tgruetzm's vision for the mod. Something that is a dedicated part that holds something like 50 snacks. At 1 liter per snack, it wouldn't be very big.

So if tgruetzm doesn't come back soon, I'll probably have to create a continuation since I really enjoy the mod. I've tried other life support mods, but they end up being too complicated for my play style. If that happens then the core mod will keep the original premise, with maybe the addition of a small snack pack, the ability to toggle the random snacking, and possibly implementing the death penalty. My other mods have snacks containers for resupply but the break the core premise, so you won't see them in Snacks itself.

Also, it looks like I missed a couple of things in yesterday's update, so expect a bug fix later today or tomorrow.

I like many things about Snacks! (simplicity, pseudo-masslessness, etc.).  But when standing alone, it is limited to relatively short trips by the low default storage amounts (compared to consumption rates and travel times), the lack of extra storage parts, and no waste products to recycle.  Because of this, each Kerbal needs a Hitchhiker of his own just for a round trip to Duna with little margin of error.  Any longer of a trip and each Kerbal needs his own suite of Hitchhikers, and you end up dropping empties just like empty fuel tanks for the main engine.  This means Snacks! leads you to DeepFreeze much sooner than other LS options.

This is the main reason why I quit using Snacks! back in the day.  While the actual Snacks! might be massless, their containers certainly aren't, nor compact, either (hence "pseudo-masslessness" above).  But then I got into Pathfinder, which is geared more towards Snacks! than the other LS options.  And it also solves most of the inherent problems with Snacks! by allowing lots of extra storage.

So, in its basic form, IMHO Snacks! needs either more initial storage or some extra storage containers.  Otherwise, you really need DeepFreeze just to get to Jool.

 

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Angelo Kerman

Angelo Kerman

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I like many things about Snacks! (simplicity, pseudo-masslessness, etc.).  But when standing alone, it is limited to relatively short trips by the low default storage amounts (compared to consumption rates and travel times), the lack of extra storage parts, and no waste products to recycle.  Because of this, each Kerbal needs a Hitchhiker of his own just for a round trip to Duna with little margin of error.  Any longer of a trip and each Kerbal needs his own suite of Hitchhikers, and you end up dropping empties just like empty fuel tanks for the main engine.  This means Snacks! leads you to DeepFreeze much sooner than other LS options.

This is the main reason why I quit using Snacks! back in the day.  While the actual Snacks! might be massless, their containers certainly aren't, nor compact, either (hence "pseudo-masslessness" above).  But then I got into Pathfinder, which is geared more towards Snacks! than the other LS options.  And it also solves most of the inherent problems with Snacks! by allowing lots of extra storage.

So, in its basic form, IMHO Snacks! needs either more initial storage or some extra storage containers.  Otherwise, you really need DeepFreeze just to get to Jool.

 

Maybe it is something to revisit if @tgruetzm doesn't come back. I do like the brilliant simplicity of it, but also recognize that others might like extra parts and functionality. But for now, I'll leave it as is. If we don't hear from him in about a month then I'll assume he's not coming back, and create a Snacks Plus that would both keep the original functionality but also provide options for storage and recycling.

Meanwhile, I've fixed the bugs I ran into. Get the latest here.

Changes:

- Re-added missing Snack Grinder
- Module Manager patch fixed to add Snacks to parts with up to 16 crewmembers
- Snacks won't be added to parts that already have Snacks
- Added version file and MiniAVC support

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Badsector

Badsector

Posted
Posted

Little suggestion for the patch 

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[0],!RESOURCE[Snacks]]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Snacks
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 50
	        @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
	}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[0],!RESOURCE[Snacks]]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Snacks
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 100
	        @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
	}
}

@PART[seatExternalCmd]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Snacks
		amount = 2
		maxAmount = 2
	}
}

@PART[Large_Crewed_Lab]
{
	@RESOURCE[Snacks]
	{
		@amount = 200
		@maxAmount = 200
	}

	MODULE
	{
		 name = ModuleResourceConverter
		 ConverterName = Snack Cultivator
		 StartActionName = Start Snack Cultivator
		 StopActionName = Stop Snack Cultivator
		AutoShutdown = false
		GeneratesHeat = false
		UseSpecialistBonus = true
		SpecialistEfficiencyFactor = 0.2
		SpecialistBonusBase = 0.05
		Specialty = Engineer
		EfficiencyBonus = 1

		 
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Ore
			Ratio = 0.5
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  		 }
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 30
		 }
		 OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Snacks
			Ratio = 1
			DumpExcess = false
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
		 }
	}
}


@PART[cupola]
{
	@RESOURCE[Snacks]
	{
		@amount = 0
		@maxAmount = 100
	}
}

@PART[roverBody]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Snacks
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 10
	}
}

With this patch i add only storage capacity because i like use snacks with mass but you can change how you like

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Angelo Kerman

Angelo Kerman

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Badsector said:

Little suggestion for the patch 


@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[],!RESOURCE[Snacks]]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Snacks
		amount = 
		maxAmount = 50
	        @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
	}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[],!RESOURCE[Snacks]]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Snacks
		amount = 
		maxAmount = 100
	        @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
	}
}

@PART[seatExternalCmd]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name= Snacks
		amount = 2
		maxAmount = 2
	}
}

@PART[Large_Crewed_Lab]
{
	@RESOURCE[Snacks]
	{
		@amount = 200
		@maxAmount = 200
	}

	MODULE
	{
		 name = ModuleResourceConverter
		 ConverterName = Snack Cultivator
		 StartActionName = Start Snack Cultivator
		 StopActionName = Stop Snack Cultivator
		AutoShutdown = false
		GeneratesHeat = false
		UseSpecialistBonus = true
		SpecialistEfficiencyFactor = 0.2
		SpecialistBonusBase = 0.05
		Specialty = Engineer
		EfficiencyBonus = 1

		 
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Ore
			Ratio = 0.5
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  		 }
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 30
		 }
		 OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Snacks
			Ratio = 1
			DumpExcess = false
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
		 }
	}
}


@PART[cupola]
{
	@RESOURCE[Snacks]
	{
		@amount = 
		@maxAmount = 100
	}
}

@PART[roverBody]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Snacks
		amount = 
		maxAmount = 10
	}
}

With this patch i add only storage capacity because i like use snacks with mass but you can change how you like

Actually I like that better! Wasn't quite sure how to do that but this is a great example, thanks! :) Next time I'll update the MM patch so that it'll handle crew capacities of any size. :)

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Geschosskopf

Geschosskopf

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Maybe it is something to revisit if @tgruetzm doesn't come back. I do like the brilliant simplicity of it, but also recognize that others might like extra parts and functionality. But for now, I'll leave it as is. If we don't hear from him in about a month then I'll assume he's not coming back, and create a Snacks Plus that would both keep the original functionality but also provide options for storage and recycling.

I actually prefer the lack of recycling in Snacks!  It's really what makes it so simple.  I just mentioned it as a comparison to other mods.  At the bottom line, recycling is just a fancy way of cramming more food into a rocket, same as adding just more food containers.  But at some point, it's lighter and more compact to use a recycler than it is to just carry more food.

Snacks! has no waste to recycle (which is totally fine with me) but its "food containers" are the size of Hitchhikers and each such "container" will barely get 1 Kerbal to Duna and back (800 units compared to a mission duration of usually somewhat over 700 days).  So in terms of weight and especially bulk, Snacks! is way off the scale of the other LS mods, which leads to gambling on being able to grow a resupply at the destination or using DeepFreeze.  This is why I would really love to see some significant extra Snacks! storage in the basic mod.  In the meantime, however, there's Pathfinder and ModuleManager :)

 

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Blaarkies

Blaarkies

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

This is the main reason why I quit using Snacks! back in the day.  While the actual Snacks! might be massless, their containers certainly aren't, nor compact, either (hence "pseudo-masslessness" above).  But then I got into Pathfinder, which is geared more towards Snacks! than the other LS options.  And it also solves most of the inherent problems with Snacks! by allowing lots of extra storage.

What about the MPL ore-snack converter patch? I used that on my Jool trips, 4 Kerbals eat through about one Big Ore tank on the way there and since it is minable and requires the big MPL...it feels like recycling?:blush:

I think the idea was more to do with snacks represent all aspects of life support, not just food. But this makes it difficult to resupply big ship with snacks...maybe a HitchHiker tuna can filled with 2000snacks?

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Wolf Baginski

Wolf Baginski

Posted
Posted

I've done a check, and Whyren's snack containers work OK in v1.1 They're essentially dumb boxes. The Snackhouse greenhouses I have not tried yet, but since they have animation features I left them out for now. I shall have to see if they will work, they're an answer for long-duration flights.

 

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