Mod-Oriented Tech Tree (Aug 3, v0.3.3 bug fixes)

[rhoark]

It seems to work fine with unadorned definitions (no @ symbols required)

[Silent_Thunder]

I can't seem to get it to load, what steps do I need to take with the news system?

[jacobrulz123]

Does this mod work for 1.0? I am trying to get it to work but it doesn't. Am I doing something wrong or will this be updated soon?

[JeffreyCor]

No, the file is not in the proper format for it to work with 1.0 currently. Hopefully will be updated soon, it's the best tech tree around.

[cvod]

I know you're looking forward to using this tree in 1.0, so here's my plan. Once I'm done with my finals next week, I'm going to update the current version of the tree to run with 1.0. I'll probably sort the new stock parts, but not change much else about the tree. Then I'll make a balance pass on some of the science values and part placements as a second update, and possibly add more mod support in a third update.

I've been out of the loop for a while, so let me know if there are any new mods that really should be implemented. I realize some small bugs still have not been addressed that were mentioned in earlier posts, and I'll address those. I'll also update support for mods that have added parts since I sorted them.

Some of the balance changes I'm considering:

- reducing science costs on the early nodes for a less "grindy" career experience

- reducing science costs on early spaceplane parts (from my playthrough in 0.90, they don't seem worthwhile to purchase early in career mode)

- making it possible to buy life support converters before buying larger containers

- ion node re-balance? (NFP seems to make ion technology hard to use in career mode if you tech to it quickly without having huge solar panels and capacitors, so I'm not really sure how to balance it)

- moving the first heat shields out of the survivability node and into the first reentry node

- starting off with a solid rocket motor in the first node instead of liquid fuel like the 1.0 tree (what do you guys think of that change?)

- better developed unmanned version of the tree (more accessible SAS so that it's not a nightmare to steer early rockets)

- more expensive rocket tech nodes (after the first rocketry node) to balance out making other nodes cheaper

- adjusting science values for nodes with ~300 or ~500 science so they're accessible from a particular R&D building level (never considered this in previous versions)

Considering adding these to the planned mod list:

- Roverdude's life support

- Cryogenic engine pack

- sounding rockets?

- NecroBones' part packs (MRS, inline fairings, SpaceY, fuel tanks plus)

... probably more small ones too.

Edited May 3, 2015 by cvod

[JeffreyCor]

I can very much understand finals! My last one if on the 8th, I feel your pain.

Very much agree with your plan of just getting it working and including the new stock parts to the tree. Overall it's fantastic anyway

Balance is always a game of trial and error.

Lowering the cost for the low end spaceplane nodes sounds like a great idea, as well as your idea of the low level ones.

stock 1.0 does have solid rocket first, might be misunderstanding what you mean. But agree, simple solids then opening up to more advanced solids and liquid branches sounds right on target.

Very much yes for moving the first heat shield! Though it was odd stock has it somewhat relatively late for the first one.

[KillAshley]

Nice, good to hear, and best luck in your finals!

one thing to have a look at the antimatter power node, it's unavailable if you don't have interstellar installed, and the karbonite+ engines are in in there. This is because the parent node is empty if interstellar isn't installed

[John FX]

Good to see active development of this very good tech tree rebalance. I was halfway through a RT, DRE, FAR, hard career game with this tree and found it lots of fun.

Looking forward to a 1.0.2 update after your finals...

Good Luck!

[Probus]

I am asking for ideas on various threads as I want to start working on updating this engineering based tech tree.

If you were going to convert the tech tree below to the new squad format, how would you go about doing it in an automated/semi-automated fashion?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/88257-Engineering-Based-Tech-Tree-%28with-flight-first-option%29-WIP-May-3-2015

[cvod]

I was going to write a script to iterate each node and fix the order of the fields and add/modify things such as renaming "techID" to "id" or adding the "scale" entry. I was also going to set all of the icons to a single picture. I'm not sure yet if it could load a tree with invalid icon names, and they definitely changed the naming scheme. Then I was going to manually make sure the "nodeNames" for all of their new nodes appeared in my tree somewhere. Thankfully it appears they did not change their naming structure.

The only problem is that I won't be writing this script until late this week or this weekend. If you still need it then, I'd be happy to convert your tree file to the new format for you or give you my Python script.

[John FX]

I'd be happy for the old tree to be updated for the new system. If that could get posted when you have time I'd be a happy bunny.

[waerth]

Interesting!

Adding sounding rockets would definitely be great

Edited May 8, 2015 by waerth

[TheDamDog]

Definitely looking forward to the updated version!

[Shurikeeen]

So, does it not work with 1.0?

[cvod]

Soon. I almost have a compatible file of the current version. Adding mods looks to be difficult at the moment though since there aren't any tree editors anymore and the RnD debug menu doesn't do much.

[FreeThinker]

Well fortunatly you can do the same as CTT and simply add the technodes with an MM script

A big Bonus us that anyone that which to improve integration with the Mod Oriented Tech Tree can now do it themself.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[cvod]

A rough version has been posted on KerbalStuff and linked via the main download link. The next couple updates should be compatible with this one, so you should be able to update your tree file and I don't think your career save won't break.

Things in this update:

- 1.0 compatibility

- new stock node ID's added to existing nodes (all parts will appear)

- all nodes visible for debugging purposes

Things not in this update:

- sorted new stock parts

- icons

- unmanned and alternate science cost files (you'll have to give yourself 30 science initially)

That being said, some of you might want to wait for the next update. Sorry things are moving slow.

Edited May 13, 2015 by cvod

[MrBonobo]

Hi!

Firstly, thousand of thanks for your mod and the update, after trying a lot of different tech trees, this one was my favorite during .90 ! Though I have one little report to make if I may :

Some nodes are empty. I know CTT is going through the same problem, and for people like me it's a bit troubling to pay science for nothing as a reward, is there any chances that this can be repaired?

Anyway, I know from what I read that coding the tech tree is a brain killing puzzle, I was just wondering if there was any prospect for the empty nodes issue, or if I just have to try overcome this by ignoring it.

Thanks again for your mod!

[cvod]

Some of the nodes swapped places with each other, but the parts stayed in the same places. Some of the changes may have made parts appear in the wrong places or put them in nodes you cannot get to. Just make sure that if theres one empty node, then there are no dependent nodes it with parts in it. You could check pretty quickly if you start a new career, go to R&D, open the debug menu, and under the R&D tab click unlock all nodes.

To make the empty nodes hidden, just do a find and replace all of "hideEmpty = False" with "hideEmpty = True".

[MrBonobo]

Alrighty! Thanks a lot for the advices, I will work on that! Good luck for the work on the update!

[TheDamDog]

Any plans for a flight-first tree, like the engineering based tech tree? I was tempted to give that one a go myself, but it doesn't seem to play nicely with mods.

[cvod]

Any plans for a flight-first tree, like the engineering based tech tree? I was tempted to give that one a go myself, but it doesn't seem to play nicely with mods.

What changes to this tree would you have in mind for that? This one already makes it viable to tech flight first if the player chooses to.

[theonegalen]

I know that for me, as long as I can choose flight first, I'm happy.

[cvod]

I could do something similar to the unmanned version of the tree. I could swap the rocket parts in the starting node for bare minimum plane parts.

[JeffreyCor]

For flight first, without Firespitter, I would think the fixed gear parts, ram intake, Mk1 cockpit, and first level wings/control surface/tails. Possibly mk1 jet fuel tank and maybe structural part. With Firespitter could just be putting those parts in the start, giving prop planes at the beginning.

I have also always done flight first. It just feels right.