[0.24.2] Interstellar Lite - Tweakscale Integration [v0.12.3][Sept 7]

[Torminator]

In the midst of all the discussion over whether the simplified version is better or not, I have an issue of sorts;

I have a reactor, Generator, and transceiver on the ground at KSC in transmit mode. I have four relays with deployable transceivers in 90deg offset synchronous orbits, in relay mode.

None of them are registering each other, even when the relay above KSC is pointed straight at the transmitter, and likewise the transmitter to the relay.

do Transmitters not work from ground level? Am I missing something? Or is it an install issue (likely some remnant of the original Interstellar lurking about)

EDIT- Setting one of the relays to transmit mode, and the other to relay, the ship I'm trying to send power to receives power, but only through the transmitting satellite. So maybe the problem is with the relay functionality?

EDIT2- can't get power from the ground station in any case

Edited September 2, 2014 by Torminator

[WaveFunctionP]

In the midst of all the discussion over whether the simplified version is better or not, I have an issue of sorts;

I have a reactor, Generator, and transceiver on the ground at KSC in transmit mode. I have four relays with deployable transceivers in 90deg offset synchronous orbits, in relay mode.

None of them are registering each other, even when the relay above KSC is pointed straight at the transmitter, and likewise the transmitter to the relay.

do Transmitters not work from ground level? Am I missing something? Or is it an install issue (likely some remnant of the original Interstellar lurking about)

EDIT- Setting one of the relays to transmit mode, and the other to relay, the ship I'm trying to send power to receives power, but only through the transmitting satellite. So maybe the problem is with the relay functionality?

It could be an install issue. It's hard to say. Transmitters and relays do not need to be pointed in any particular direction. They are just supposed to automagicly send power to receivers that can see them.

You should only need to set the power station to transmit mode, and place relays where they are needed. There still needs to be a chain of sight from the power to the vessel for it to function though.

I've found that if you place to the relays too low in orbit, the number of relays that can seen by the vessel can lead to some rather discrete availability of power.

I am not happy with the current implementation, it is hard to diagnose problems with the information available, and I am not entire sure that that information is always very accurate.

It is hard to say what your problem is without seeing your setup.

[INSULINt]

Hmm, I think it's kinda unfair how Scott basically bashes this in his latest IQ. Especially with the 0.24.2 compatible 0.11 that you did just seemed really chippy. Sigh.

[WaveFunctionP]

Hmm, I think it's kinda unfair how Scott basically bashes this in his latest IQ. Especially with the 0.24.2 compatible 0.11 that you did just seemed really chippy. Sigh.

He didn't say anything bad, though he should really check his mail. I've offered to fix his version without changing anything.

[GreeningGalaxy]

Hmm, I think it's kinda unfair how Scott basically bashes this in his latest IQ. Especially with the 0.24.2 compatible 0.11 that you did just seemed really chippy. Sigh.

The 0.24 compatible 0.11 version is great; it works about as well as FractalUK's version did and I'm very glad WaveFunction is here to save us in Fractal's absence.

That said, Manley's right- the newest 'Lite' version would not be adequate at all for the Arthur C. Clarke-style futuristic high-complexity space program he's running in IQ. It would be cool if WaveFunction did fix Manley's version so he can mess with the new .24 (and, eventually, .25) stuff in IQ, though. Especially if the KSPI 0.24.2 Scott Manley Edition got publicly released as well.

[Ballistic Idiot]

He didn't say anything bad, though he should really check his mail. I've offered to fix his version without changing anything.

If you do get to fixing the original, please incorporate the part scaling you put into this one. Like I said in the other thread, I love part scaling and for a mod as massive as KSPI it's hand-in-glove.

Though I think my install is funky, the reactors are all the same, don't produce any electric charge and don't need radiators.

[illmatic]

Just wanted to say that I appreciate you putting your personal time into updating this for us, and I rather enjoy the simplified version.

Now - if we could just get rid of that annoying tech tree update pop-up every time I start the game...

[Meltafire]

He didn't say anything bad, though he should really check his mail. I've offered to fix his version without changing anything.

I do really want too this version of KSPI. Good old KSPI (no rebalance, maybe even dont change prices so players can do that) only with support .24.2, TweakScale and cross compabilty with resources. Sounds good.

[AetherGoddess]

i wonder how much of the "i liked it before" is people used to fidelity and (arguably illusiory) accuracy and how much is this:

(XKCD, offering nerds vicarious smugness since 2005)

[Meltafire]

i wonder how much of the "i liked it before" is people used to fidelity and (arguably illusiory) accuracy and how much is this:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/workflow.png

(XKCD, offering nerds vicarious smugness since 2005)

Not exactly but still funny:) It's not a just "a change" but totally different mod for KSP now. KSPI is like "what if we place a real model of reactor on a spacehip". KSPI lite is like "Congrats! You are opened new fusion reactor! Forget about all other stock parts in game!". So I can't say how really KSPI Lite is compatible with stock game for now.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Meltafire

[sober667]

Not exactly but still funny:) It's not a just "a change" but totally different mod for KSP now. KSPI is like "what if we place a real model of reactor on a spacehip". KSPI lite is like "Congrats! You are opened new fusion reactor! Forget about all other stock parts in game!". So I can't say how really KSPI Lite is compatible with stock game for now.

Agree i gived it a try and playing dont give THAT fun what was before im start searching my disc for 0.11

i like that something is hard and require a lots of tweaking around to make going like it is in Fractal

chenges are good tweakscale rocks but.... its just not the same mod

[WaveFunctionP]

Not exactly but still funny:) It's not a just "a change" but totally different mod for KSP now. KSPI is like "what if we place a real model of reactor on a spacehip". KSPI lite is like "Congrats! You are opened new fusion reactor! Forget about all other stock parts in game!". So I can't say how really KSPI Lite is compatible with stock game for now.

The ultimate goal is that kspil parts become extensions of the stock power curve and fit within the stock framework even in sandbox to fulfill a niche. It's not there yet, but it's much closer than before.

Additionally, another goal is that enough functionality is exposed to allow players tune the parts to fit within other frameworks like RSS/RealFuels or any other variant that a player cares to develop.

Noone is saying that other fuel modes and features won't be support in the future, just that the base experience should be balanced against stock and enough extensibility added to allow for players to find the niche they prefer. I am not building MY vision, I am building the "stock vision" and support for "your vision" as well. To do that, I have to clean up what is frankly a mess of code and magic numbers and then to expose the proper functionality to allow players to make their vision happen.

Would you like to install isp difficulty slider or RSS and have it just work? Well, that is the future. And while I can't know what fractaluk would have done, I do know that the current code makes such things hard to implement. Probably because I'm not the a very experienced programmer and following fractal's code is difficult as there is very little commenting, but from what I do understand, it is clear to me that there was only ever going to be one kspi.

Basicly:

Edited September 3, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[Stevie_D]

The original KSPI was far too inaccessible and lacked a progression curve that Stock KSP gives you. As great as it was, it was in dire need of some streamlining and again, a progression curve that made sense. It threw you in the deep end too much.

But as an aside on a slightly different note, i was studying the research tree earlier for my mod, and i pondered the inherant problem with the original tree. IE - You get all the warp rings at the end of the tree. By then, you've got ALL the science there is to get, and you get warp capability, ...which means you have the ability to go anywhere REALLY quickly... but no reason to do it unless you're RPing it a bit with colonies and so on.

An idea that struck me as food for thought, is that perhaps give out small rings 1-2, maybe 3 research blocks earlier, but make them have a cap of slower warp speeds. So you get a baby ring that only fits small parts, and only goes 0.10c. Unlock a new tree, you get a fatter ring with 5c etc etc until the last tech block with the biggest rings that go 20c. Its just an idea obviously, but its the one niggle knawing at the back of my head since i first saw the full tree.

[Meltafire]

Basicly:

http://i.imgur.com/k4WapRi.jpg

"1. Mod Developer always right.

2. If not, see 1."

just another truth of life:)

[MinorInconvenience]

Not exactly but still funny:) It's not a just "a change" but totally different mod for KSP now. KSPI is like "what if we place a real model of reactor on a spacehip". KSPI lite is like "Congrats! You are opened new fusion reactor! Forget about all other stock parts in game!". So I can't say how really KSPI Lite is compatible with stock game for now.

I always though KSPI was more like "what if we put a real model of a reactor on a totally unrealistic spaceship piloted by little green men in a miniturized solar system with wonky gravity." As I'm only an amateur science geek, I find Wave's interpretation of KSPI to be far more accessible and a better fit with the stock game (with some tweaks, I'd imagine, as it is a work in progress).

[Jetski]

*rant* Just a quick thought for everyone who doesn't like the changes in Lite: have you actually played Lite for more than 30 seconds before posting? Not sure if anyone other than Wave has bothered, but I've played the career mode start to finish, max tech tree, then a Grand Tour of the planets. Did the same with the original KSPI, and I'll say the new version is a HUGE improvement. Original was a lag monster as soon as the ships got complex enough to be fun, and full of bugs (Reactors shutting off for no reason, microwave power super glitchy, various useless parts, crazy upgrade system, etc). Also a ton of options that were made quickly obsolete by the next tech tree node. There are a few balance issues in Lite, and a few bugs Wave hasn't gotten to yet, but that's what the github bug report is for. I for one am more than grateful for the hard work Wave has put in, basically for free, to make my favorite mod playable again. Try actually playing for a while before offering your brilliant critique. *rant finished*

[Gecko99]

I always though KSPI was more like "what if we put a real model of a reactor on a totally unrealistic spaceship piloted by little green men in a miniturized solar system with wonky gravity." As I'm only an amateur science geek, I find Wave's interpretation of KSPI to be far more accessible and a better fit with the stock game (with some tweaks, I'd imagine, as it is a work in progress).

Fully agreed!

I feel I get the grasp of a game pretty quick, but KSP stock took me a week to get my head around, and Original KSPi another weekend of nothing but playing in the VAB and launch pad (boy did my wife love me )

What im getting at is this new version makes for a MUCH easier immersion, Previously it was like lowering yourself into a bath that's just TOO hot for the Colonels.

So BIG thanks to Wave for turning down the wick and making the experience more detailed and less painful to get used too

Regards

The Gecko

[Cosmic_Farmer]

I like the idea of this mod, but con't get it to work properly. I've only tried it with multiple other mods installed, but none of the parts seem to function as they are meant to. There's no heat build-up, the generators do nothing the extra functions for the engines don't work, and the atmosphere scoops just serve as storage tanks which can only be emptied.

It did seem rather over-powered, but I think that's just because of the other functions not working. Also, are there fewer resources in this than in KSPI? It seems like they could do with scaling-down. For instance, do we really need a second power resource, and two extra heat resources? Though it would probably take a lot of work to get the functionality without the extra resources.

[Meltafire]

*rant* Just a quick thought for everyone who doesn't like the changes in Lite: have you actually played Lite for more than 30 seconds before posting?

I do. Problem is I'm hardcore player so my point may be too harsh for someone. So sometimes I must say "stop to over complicate" to myself.

[InfinityArch]

*rant* Just a quick thought for everyone who doesn't like the changes in Lite: have you actually played Lite for more than 30 seconds before posting? Not sure if anyone other than Wave has bothered, but I've played the career mode start to finish, max tech tree, then a Grand Tour of the planets. Did the same with the original KSPI, and I'll say the new version is a HUGE improvement. Original was a lag monster as soon as the ships got complex enough to be fun, and full of bugs (Reactors shutting off for no reason, microwave power super glitchy, various useless parts, crazy upgrade system, etc). Also a ton of options that were made quickly obsolete by the next tech tree node. There are a few balance issues in Lite, and a few bugs Wave hasn't gotten to yet, but that's what the github bug report is for. I for one am more than grateful for the hard work Wave has put in, basically for free, to make my favorite mod playable again. Try actually playing for a while before offering your brilliant critique. *rant finished*

It would be nice to have a config set that brought the "power levels" of the KSPI tech back to the original mod's levels, for those of us playing RSS/realism overhaul. I only play 6.4x Kerbol, so it's not a big issue, since stock parts are still usable in 6.4x scale, but at full x10 size Kerbol or the real solar system, the KSPIL parts just don't cut it.

[GreeningGalaxy]

*rant* Just a quick thought for everyone who doesn't like the changes in Lite: have you actually played Lite for more than 30 seconds before posting? Not sure if anyone other than Wave has bothered, but I've played the career mode start to finish, max tech tree, then a Grand Tour of the planets. Did the same with the original KSPI, and I'll say the new version is a HUGE improvement. Original was a lag monster as soon as the ships got complex enough to be fun, and full of bugs (Reactors shutting off for no reason, microwave power super glitchy, various useless parts, crazy upgrade system, etc). Also a ton of options that were made quickly obsolete by the next tech tree node. There are a few balance issues in Lite, and a few bugs Wave hasn't gotten to yet, but that's what the github bug report is for. I for one am more than grateful for the hard work Wave has put in, basically for free, to make my favorite mod playable again. Try actually playing for a while before offering your brilliant critique. *rant finished*

After thinking about it a bit more, and playing the old version of KSPI some, I can only come to the conclusion that you're right. I did judge this mod a little (or a lot) unfairly and hastily, if not before playing it at all then at least before really thinking about all the changes.

I still don't really agree with the fission buffs and the particle bed/molten salt thrust/ISP tradeoffs, and the removal of KTEC generators, charged particles, tritium breeding, and water tanks really cramps my style a lot. That said, though, the fusion/antimatter rebalance makes a lot more sense than I originally gave it credit for since the Kerbol system is so small compared to real life, and all of the bug fixes and new features really do improve the game a lot. I look forward to everything WaveFunction says is going to get added/re-added, too, and in the meantime, I imagine that most of my main issues could be fixed with a config edit or two.

Anyway, thanks, WaveFunction! Sorry I was so presumptuous in my earlier post.

[INSULINt]

I'll just put this here: https://github.com/WaveFunctionP/KSPInterstellar/releases/tag/v0.11exp

;p

[forsaken1111]

I'll just put this here: https://github.com/WaveFunctionP/KSPInterstellar/releases/tag/v0.11exp

;p

Yeah I didn't really get why everyone felt compelled to come and denounce this when there is a perfectly workable .24 release with all of the old 'complexity' intact.

[Torminator]

I like the idea of this mod, but con't get it to work properly. I've only tried it with multiple other mods installed, but none of the parts seem to function as they are meant to. There's no heat build-up, the generators do nothing the extra functions for the engines don't work, and the atmosphere scoops just serve as storage tanks which can only be emptied.

It did seem rather over-powered, but I think that's just because of the other functions not working. Also, are there fewer resources in this than in KSPI? It seems like they could do with scaling-down. For instance, do we really need a second power resource, and two extra heat resources? Though it would probably take a lot of work to get the functionality without the extra resources.

You've got an install problem. I've had the same thing. Make sure there's nothing of WarpPlugin left in Gamedata, make sure OpenResourceSystem ONLY contains the 1.2 dll, etc...

Also make sure anything else that rides on ORS is updated and cleanly installed. Karbonite, MKS/OKS etc...

[sober667]

*rant* Just a quick thought for everyone who doesn't like the changes in Lite: have you actually played Lite for more than 30 seconds before posting? Not sure if anyone other than Wave has bothered, but I've played the career mode start to finish, max tech tree, then a Grand Tour of the planets. Did the same with the original KSPI, and I'll say the new version is a HUGE improvement. Original was a lag monster as soon as the ships got complex enough to be fun, and full of bugs (Reactors shutting off for no reason, microwave power super glitchy, various useless parts, crazy upgrade system, etc). Also a ton of options that were made quickly obsolete by the next tech tree node. There are a few balance issues in Lite, and a few bugs Wave hasn't gotten to yet, but that's what the github bug report is for. I for one am more than grateful for the hard work Wave has put in, basically for free, to make my favorite mod playable again. Try actually playing for a while before offering your brilliant critique. *rant finished*

yes i played umm a lot one career with23.5 and one with 24.2wave ver 0.11 and a fair enough played within KSPI-L

i like this mod for keeping thinks as "realistic" as they could be in future ( i have RT2,DRE,FAR,KAS and some more) so i like time when it revert me back to VAB for more radiators even if im half way to JOOL maby im hardcore player but i love when thinks go so wrong or unexpected way or missing solar pannel makes me think what i need to do to end mission succes?(back from moon with lander with no power was fun) so lite is just to Lite for me. and i think chenges are good tweak scale was something that was missing here but..... its just not my cup of tea.

Edited September 3, 2014 by sober667