[0.24.2] Interstellar Lite - Tweakscale Integration [v0.12.3][Sept 7]

[JeffreyCor]

There are mm config files as well as some configs for interstellar modules in tweakscale exponents. Both need to be removed until the full version of tweakscale is updated.

This is exactly the problem, there isn't. At least non I can find. There is only 1 file in tweakscale relating to Interstellar that I can find. Apart from the single file in TweakScale all others are included in Intersteller (not including the tweakscale folder included in the zip). None are called tweakscale exponents. Where are these multiple files you are referring to and what are they called?

edit: think i found one you might have been talking about called ScaleExponents.cfg. is that what you meant by chance?

Edited August 27, 2014 by JeffreyCor

[WaveFunctionP]

This is exactly the problem, there isn't. At least non I can find. There is only 1 file in tweakscale relating to Interstellar that I can find. Apart from the single file in TweakScale all others are included in Intersteller (not including the tweakscale folder included in the zip). None are called tweakscale exponents. Where are these multiple files you are referring to and what are they called?

edit: think i found one you might have been talking about called ScaleExponents.cfg. is that what you meant by chance?

Yes, I don't know why the mod specific tweaks are in the associated mod specific files, but there are interstellar tweaks in scaleexponents.

[WaveFunctionP]

WaveFunctionP - looks awesome! One nitpick, "Particle Bed Reactor" is misspelled as "Partical" in the parts description. Love the Tweakscale integration.

Fixed now on my local dev version, thank you.

[FluffySilverUnicorn]

@WaveFunctionP

I really like the tweakscale and the greatly simplified parts list, but I think that much of the stuff is now underpowered. I think that for the amount of effort required to unlock that part of the tree, and to collect the resources like antimatter, things like thermal rockets/turbojets and quantum vacuum plasma thruster should have more power and better ISP. At this point, much of the higher tech-level engines aren't that much better than stock parts. And by the way, generators become more efficient and powerful with size in the real world. I think this update has shifted the focus away from respecting the laws of physics and more towards improving gameplay. Please consider this for the next update and keep up the great work!

[Aren74]

I started up a sandbox mode game to get familiar with the changes and new parts before I dive into a new career mode game. Build a warp ship and flew it to Duna. It was going to require 15k delta-v to get into orbit and I didn't have the megajoules for that long of a burn so I was attempting several micro warp jumps to try to get closer to the planet. On the 3rd try this happened:

The D/T tanks pulled off the ship and floated behind it, still acting like they were attached. Turning with it as I turned. Has anyone had a similar issue?

[oktav]

I haven't tried the big ones, but there is some kind of imbalance with smaller reactors. Consider how much energy a PB-NUK gives (with respect to the cost) and how much power in general you get with just a tiny nuclear reactor and an electrical generator (for just a little bit more funds). It will weight a bit more, but you have much more power, and can shell out some nice thrust with a thermojet... but probably it was like this even before, can't remember.

@WaveFunctionP

I really like the tweakscale and the greatly simplified parts list, but I think that much of the stuff is now underpowered. I think that for the amount of effort required to unlock that part of the tree, and to collect the resources like antimatter, things like thermal rockets/turbojets and quantum vacuum plasma thruster should have more power and better ISP. At this point, much of the higher tech-level engines aren't that much better than stock parts. And by the way, generators become more efficient and powerful with size in the real world. I think this update has shifted the focus away from respecting the laws of physics and more towards improving gameplay. Please consider this for the next update and keep up the great work!

Edited August 27, 2014 by oktav

[smart013]

A simple question: would it not be more in line with the recent nerfing of top tier reactors and the emphasis of subjective gameplay decisions over the physical (fantastic) potentials of future innovations to remove the warp drive alltogether and rename the mod?

Or to quote Scott Manley on your fork, who based a entire video series on this mod: "It's good to have this, but it looks like there's a lot of rebalancing that is concentrating more on gameplay rather than say the laws of physics."

Sorry if this sounds harsh, i like what you did (your work is exeptional) and the way you seemingly want to go, but in my opinion "interstellar" means more than near future mod + warp drive

Edited August 27, 2014 by smart013

[Joshwoo70]

I started up a sandbox mode game to get familiar with the changes and new parts before I dive into a new career mode game. Build a warp ship and flew it to Duna. It was going to require 15k delta-v to get into orbit and I didn't have the megajoules for that long of a burn so I was attempting several micro warp jumps to try to get closer to the planet. On the 3rd try this happened:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W5OyazLcqHc/U_1pBo_eFtI/AAAAAAAACZQ/o1Cc8_1j8Gw/w1160-h653-no/KSP%2B2014-08-26%2B21-57-46-36.jpg

The D/T tanks pulled off the ship and floated behind it, still acting like they were attached. Turning with it as I turned. Has anyone had a similar issue?

I do not have and I did not have this version but! The best is quickysave and quickload back again. I guess is a visual glitch? (Check the mission report f3 ?)

[Haifi]

I have the same problem, differnt parts, dockingwashers, lights, engines you name it. But I doubt it is directly a Interstellar problem, Im still using version .11 experimental. I could not pin down yet why parts drift. It is as if the node coordinates go haywire in the persistent file. If you by chance find the culprit, please let me know.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Haifi

[W1ntermute]

Whats with other people changing original settings in the mods tech tree? Unless the game itself has changed the way it operates, make it 100% compatible to older versions of that mod and stop breaking peoples savegames. You want to change the mod, fine, but who in their right mind, who's spent hours building stuff, would want to go over and use your crappy save breaking version mod over the original?!? lmao

[RoverDude]

Whats with other people changing original settings in the mods tech tree? Unless the game itself has changed the way it operates, make it 100% compatible to older versions of that mod and stop breaking peoples savegames. You want to change the mod, fine, but who in their right mind, who's spent hours building stuff, would want to go over and use your crappy save breaking version mod over the original?!? lmao

You're a ray of sunshine.

Feel free to go use the old KSPI under 0.24.2. Let us know how that works out for you.

(Edit)

Or better yet, just make your own fork and publish it. I'm looking forward to your release thread.

[Konnor]

and rename the mod

I agree, this is not that Interstellar anymore.

A very good hi-tech oriented mod, but sufficiently different.

old KSPI under 0.24.2. Let us know how that works

Previous WaveFunctionP's release (Interstellar Experimental v0.11) works under 0.24.2.

[RoverDude]

I agree, this is not that Interstellar anymore.

A very good hi-tech oriented mod, but sufficiently different.

Previous WaveFunctionP's release (Interstellar Experimental v0.11) works under 0.24.2.

Then by all means fork it That's the beauty of open licensing. I for one welcome better mod interop, and an opportunity to have someone move the mod forward.

[ManTrelk]

It's kind of a pity that Interstellar has now left the niche it filled (being a realistic end-game mod). That and the fact that the gamebreaking Tweakscale is now integrated mean I'm going to just stick with the old version. Thanks WavefunctionP for getting 0.11 working with First Contract.

[Joachim]

It's kind of a pity that Interstellar has now left the niche it filled (being a realistic end-game mod). That and the fact that the gamebreaking Tweakscale is now integrated mean I'm going to just stick with the old version. Thanks WavefunctionP for getting 0.11 working with First Contract.

"Realistic" still cracks me up whenever I hear it on these forums

[Konnor]

Then by all means fork it That's the beauty of open licensing. I for one welcome better mod interop, and an opportunity to have someone move the mod forward.

Can't promise anything at this point (that would be rather overwhelming undertaking, and I hope FractalUK returns), but I actually consider doing it. Another KSP update may very well break all compatibility...

[Woodstar]

Can't promise anything at this point (that would be rather overwhelming undertaking, and I hope FractalUK returns), but I actually consider doing it. Another KSP update may very well break all compatibility...

I don't believe you, you won't make anything. That's the problem people want to come in and tell mod makers how they are screwing up and they could have done better, this and that. When 98% of them have no modding experience whatsoever, I agree with rover, just go ahead and make your own and leave the thread to people that are interested.

[forsaken1111]

"Realistic" still cracks me up whenever I hear it on these forums

Indeed. KSP isn't 'realistic'. Wave made these changes with gameplay in mind because this mod is for a game. Realistic numbers only make sense if you're using a realistic setting, which most people playing KSP do not do.

[ptr421]

I agree with the parts cleanup. I don't think I've ever used the aluminium rocket and having three refineries, none with actually practical model, was kinda pointless. Same with methane, even reconfiguring mainsail to work with it would have been better than that mess of an engine (dunno why nobody did that). What I don't like that much is the reactor nerf, though reverting it is a matter of changing a few numbers, so no big deal.

[BlackSoldierB]

This is an error with your installation. delete all the old folders and files from the last version of interstellar. Warpplugin, treeloader, openerresoursystem and module manager were all included in the old mod. After you've removed all the old stuff, then install the entire contents of the interstellar download into your gamedata directory. Basically, drag the gamedata contents from the download into the gamedata folder in your install.

I deleted my whole gamedata folder and then installed my mods one by one. I still get the same effect. I will try a clean install with only Interstellar, Karbonite, MKS, B9 r5 and PartCatalog. In the debug window i see a lot of ArgumentExceptions.

Running 64 bit.

Any other tips?

Edit:

Karbonite -> MKS -> Interstellar works (for some reason not in the reverse order, it crashes at entering VAB).

Adding PartCatalog and restart KSP twice will crash on entering VAB.

Edited August 27, 2014 by BlackSoldierB

[RoverDude]

I deleted my whole gamedata folder and then installed my mods one by one. I still get the same effect. I will try a clean install with only Interstellar, MKS, B9 and PartCatalog. Because i think it will be one of them. In the debug window i see a lot of ArgumentExceptions.

Any other tips?

Make sure you have the brand new MKS version as it is now compiled against the new ORS build.

[JeffreyCor]

Indeed. KSP isn't 'realistic'. Wave made these changes with gameplay in mind because this mod is for a game. Realistic numbers only make sense if you're using a realistic setting, which most people playing KSP do not do.

With you all on this as well. KSP from the very base is focused on gameplay not to be a "realistic" simulation. If someone wants that they should contact NASA or SpaceX. KSP is made for entertainment thus gameplay is clearly the better focus. I'm quite glad WaveFunctionP put his focus onto gameplay to make it enjoyable rather than a basis for a physics degree.

[forsaken1111]

With you all on this as well. KSP from the very base is focused on gameplay not to be a "realistic" simulation. If someone wants that they should contact NASA or SpaceX. KSP is made for entertainment thus gameplay is clearly the better focus. I'm quite glad WaveFunctionP put his focus onto gameplay to make it enjoyable rather than a basis for a physics degree.

Indeed. Games like Orbiter have the real-world physics angle covered admirably already. KSP is much more tongue-in-cheek with its tiny green immortal spacemen.

[PringleMan]

Same for me. I would roll with it just on the basis of having the tweakable parts, actually. I have so many mods on at this point that any de-clutter that can happen in my parts list is a good thing.

And guys lets be honest, KSPI was pretty OP before anyways. Before the contract system, when it did not cost you anything to launch things, KSPI reactors allowed you to build practically infinitely powered probes without much hassle (because especially once the VAB thermal helper came out, there is kinda no reason to ever overheat). Even with the contract system, I am currently sitting at almost 3 million funds AFTER I have already built up a pretty solid infrastructure of probe-driven harvesters and transfer stations.

So what if in real life the values come out a little bit different. If it really bothers you that much, WaveFunction has not taken down the KSPI Experimental .11, which was almost a straight recompile of the original with some minor balance tweaks. You can freely download that. Or, as many have pointed out, make a fork and recompile things for yourself. No one is forcing you to use this version. No one is forcing you to use any mod for that matter.

[undercoveryankee]

There seems to be almost an even split between people who liked the "Atomic Rockets: the Game" feel of 0.11 and people who prefer the gameplay-oriented stats in 0.12.

I've been working on a pack (ModuleManager patches to parts in 0.12 and additional configs using models from 0.11 that don't appear in 0.12) to approximate the old stats while still taking advantage of Community Resource Pack, TweakScale, and the updated plugin in 0.12. If I get to a stage where I'm happy with it, I'll release.