[1.x+] Community Resource Pack

ZobrAA · May 25, 2015

From what i recall NF doesn't have vaporization. So odds are it is coming from real fuels, and his boiloff stuff.

kSPI-E also have boiloff for storage tanks when it's underpowered

The true oddness is that I have no RealFuels or KSPI... So I was really surprised when notice that leak. Maybe little baby krakens drilled little holes in my tanks?

volcanicshrimp · May 25, 2015

will a fix for this bug be available soon?

goldenpsp · May 25, 2015

will a fix for this bug be available soon?

Ask Squad

@smjjames I just repro'd this with a vanilla install, no mods, and a new save... you found a bug in KSP

volcanicshrimp · May 26, 2015

Oops, didn't read the bug thread properly.

It's annoying because I can't use FTT which means that I can't work on my nuclear powered honeybadger gyrodyne or my derpy fan powered rocket

Edited May 26, 2015 by volcanicshrimp

eodh · May 26, 2015

That's not really the same bug though, the one in that thread, that RoverDude seems to have "found" in the stock KSP. The bug in that thread only appears after you've firstly scanned Kerbin for resources AND having installed CRP. I've tested it like 100 times and it's just about it. In fact, deleting the ResourceScenario reference in the persistent savegame completely stops the bug from occur. I also reported it here https://github.com/BobPalmer/CommunityResourcePack/issues/42

Edit: Forgot to say that it may still be some problem related to KSP itself (probably is), I'm quite sure it's tied to resources, wether or not CRP may just facilitate it to be triggered more offen for some reason...

Edited May 26, 2015 by eodh

Masakakihara · May 31, 2015

Does the bug only appear when Kerbin is scanned?

So far ive only scanned Kerbin and Minmus. When deleting the data for Kerbin in the persistent file, reverting works properly again.

But i'm eager to find out if the bug appears if you leave Kerbin unscanned.

goldenpsp · May 31, 2015

That's not really the same bug though, the one in that thread, that RoverDude seems to have "found" in the stock KSP. The bug in that thread only appears after you've firstly scanned Kerbin for resources AND having installed CRP. I've tested it like 100 times and it's just about it. In fact, deleting the ResourceScenario reference in the persistent savegame completely stops the bug from occur. I also reported it here https://github.com/BobPalmer/CommunityResourcePack/issues/42
Edit: Forgot to say that it may still be some problem related to KSP itself (probably is), I'm quite sure it's tied to resources, wether or not CRP may just facilitate it to be triggered more offen for some reason...

I guess that's where the head scratching comes in, because this mod (CRP) doesn't really "do" anything. It contains no custom dll, and is just a bunch of config files that define additional resources. The config files pretty much match the stock config file for ore.

Xannari Ferrows · June 12, 2015

Hypothetically, what uses could Magnesium Sulfate or Osmium have? I've been thinking about making Osmium an economic resource, and Magnesium Sulfate some sort of fuel or whatever.

Then again, a quick look at the sheet, and almost everything has been thought of... Hmm...

undercoveryankee · June 12, 2015

I guess that's where the head scratching comes in, because this mod (CRP) doesn't really "do" anything. It contains no custom dll, and is just a bunch of config files that define additional resources. The config files pretty much match the stock config file for ore.

CRP does define mining abundances for several of its resources, even though it doesn't actually include parts to mine them. If it's something in the stock code that is becomes more likely as the list of resource abundances in the ResourceScenario gets longer, then CRP would be triggering it just by telling ResourceScenario to track more resources.

FreeThinker · June 16, 2015

Alright, it's time we start to a discussion about standardSpecificHeatCapacity or (hsp the same thing but the name of the propery in the resource defintion.) Currently all CRP resources have a standardSpecificHeatCapacity of 0. This is a problem, as it causes resource tanks heat up or lose energy way too fast. Also mods that depend on a correct value, like refrigerators depend on it, get incorrect behavior if it isn't initialed correctly.

One problem is Specific Heat is not constant as it varies with different temperatures. For Cryogenic liquid, it's important the specific heat is below the temperature it start to boil-off. For gasses, 20 C might be ok.

Edited June 16, 2015 by FreeThinker

RoverDude · June 16, 2015

Send a pull request for the items you curate.

FreeThinker · June 16, 2015

Send a pull request for the items you curate.

Well that won't be enough, the most important resources, Liquid Hydrogen and Liquid Oxygen are not under my curration. I will make a list

regex · June 16, 2015

Well that won't be enough, the most important resources, Liquid Hydrogen and Liquid Oxygen are not under my curration. I will make a list

Pretty sure Real Fuels has updated values for those; make your list and let me know, I'll compare and figure out how to approach it. If the values are close, we may just let RF make the necessary corrections for itself.

RoverDude · June 16, 2015

Well that was more of a general statement - If you curate something send a pull request. If you don't pester whoever owns that mod to submit one

FreeThinker · June 16, 2015

Well according to this source Liquid Hydrogen should be about 9.78 kJ/kg/K which is about the highest specific heat of any resource. Note that KSP seems to specify specific heat in J/kg/K, which would make it 9780. Note that many other sources mention Hydrogen specific heat beeing higher, but those are in Hydrogen Gas state.

- - - Updated - - -

according to the same source,

Liquid Oxygen has a specific heat of 1.70 kJ/kg K

Liquid Helium has a specific heat of 4.56 kj/kg K

Liquid Nitrogen has a specific heat of 2.04 kj/kg K

Liquid CO2 has a specific heat of 0.85 kj/kg K

- - - Updated - - -

According to this source, Liquid Carbon Monoxide has a specific heat of 0.5148 cal/g which would be 2.154 kJ/kg K

Edited June 16, 2015 by FreeThinker

regex · June 16, 2015

I'll check into all the resources I'm responsible for later tonight and report back, thanks.

NathanKell · June 16, 2015

Freethinker, that source lists the specific heat in _gas_ form. The specific heat for LH2 that got merged into CRP via my pull request is the liquid hsp.

regex: Most of them are in that PR. Well, technically stratochief did most of them, I just added a few more and made it a pull into CRP instead of a patch in RF.

regex · June 16, 2015

regex: Most of them are in that PR. Well, technically stratochief did most of them, I just added a few more and made it a pull into CRP instead of a patch in RF.

Fantastic, wasn't sure where things were, thanks.

FreeThinker · June 17, 2015

Well that was more of a general statement - If you curate something send a pull request. If you don't pester whoever owns that mod to submit one

Alright, but I lost the link to the table of currated resources. Could you post it again?

- - - Updated - - -

Freethinker, that source lists the specific heat in _gas_ form. The specific heat for LH2 that got merged into CRP via my pull request is the liquid hsp.

Actualy from other sources I know the number is correct, they only make the mistake saying it was taken at room temperature. Finding specific heat for liquid hydrogen seems to be changanging because most only which Hydrogen in Gas state, which is much too high. The lower the temerapture, the low the specific heat, which makes sence at the molecules are closer together at lower temperature.

Edited June 17, 2015 by FreeThinker

RoverDude · June 17, 2015

I'll hunt down the link. Tho the config should already have comments noting curation. @nathankell - feel free to do some of mine while you're doing yours, I trust ya and it makes my job easier. I'll ping Nertea if he does not post here first.

Nertea · June 17, 2015

I'll get to it when I get to it. Kinda only have to do argon gas and the nuclear resources I suppose.

RoverDude · June 17, 2015

Thanks! Also been trying to hunt you down on IRC for the past week

Nertea · June 17, 2015

Haha, I'll try to be on this weekend, rather busy and only time I've been able to get is in the late evenings.

FreeThinker · June 17, 2015

regex: Most of them are in that PR. Well, technically stratochief did most of them, I just added a few more and made it a pull into CRP instead of a patch in RF.

I noticed you added vsp (heat of vapourization) as well which is great but does that actually work. I don't think it is parsed by Stock, or is it?

Also, for Liquid Hydrogen, I noticed you used the 14305, which is the correct specific heat for Hydrogen Gas at room temperature, which is much to high compared to the Specific Heat for Liquid Hydrogen, which due to it's liquid state, is significantly lower lower, about 10 Kj/Kg.

- - - Updated - - -

here is a table of the specific Hydrogen Gas of hydrogen gas . Note it lowest temperature is only 175 Kelvin and at this point is 13.12 KJ. The value of 14.38 is at 325 K

as - H₂ - at temperatures ranging 175 - 6000 K can be found in the table below: [TABLE=class: medium]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2]Hydrogen Gas - H₂[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Temperature

- T -

(K)[/TD]

[TD]Specific Heat

- c_p -

(kJ/kg.K)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]175[/TD]

[TD]13.12[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]200[/TD]

[TD]13.53[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]225[/TD]

[TD]13.83[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]250[/TD]

[TD]14.05[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]275[/TD]

[TD]14.20[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]300[/TD]

[TD]14.31[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]325[/TD]

[TD]14.38[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]350[/TD]

[TD]14.43[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]375[/TD]

[TD]14.46[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]400[/TD]

[TD]14.48[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]450[/TD]

[TD]14.50[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]500[/TD]

[TD]14.51[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]550[/TD]

[TD]14.53[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]600[/TD]

[TD]14.55[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]650[/TD]

[TD]14.57[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]700[/TD]

[TD]14.60[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]750[/TD]

[TD]14.65[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]800[/TD]

[TD]14.71[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]850[/TD]

[TD]14.77[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]900[/TD]

[TD]14.83[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]950[/TD]

[TD]14.90[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1000[/TD]

[TD]14.98[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1050[/TD]

[TD]15.06[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1100[/TD]

[TD]15.15[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1150[/TD]

[TD]15.25[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1200[/TD]

[TD]15.34[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1250[/TD]

[TD]15.44[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1300[/TD]

[TD]15.54[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1350[/TD]

[TD]15.65[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1400[/TD]

[TD]15.77[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1500[/TD]

[TD]16.02[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1600[/TD]

[TD]16.23[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1700[/TD]

[TD]16.44[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1800[/TD]

[TD]16.64[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1900[/TD]

[TD]16.83[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2000[/TD]

[TD]17.01[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2100[/TD]

[TD]17.18[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2200[/TD]

[TD]17.35[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2300[/TD]

[TD]17.50[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2400[/TD]

[TD]17.65[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2500[/TD]

[TD]17.80[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2600[/TD]

[TD]17.93[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2700[/TD]

[TD]18.06[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2800[/TD]

[TD]18.17[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2900[/TD]

[TD]18.28[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]3000[/TD]

[TD]18.39[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]3500[/TD]

[TD]18.91[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]4000[/TD]

[TD]19.39[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]4500[/TD]

[TD]19.83[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]5000[/TD]

[TD]20.23[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]5500[/TD]

[TD]20.61[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]6000[/TD]

[TD]20.96[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

The values above apply to undissociated states. At high temperatures above 1500 K dissociation becomes appreciable and pressure is a significant variable.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit, in this document, which deals specificly about the storage of Liqiod Hydrogen, list the specific heat of Liquid Hydrogen at 9.89 J / g , thich translates to 9.89 kJ / kg

Edited June 17, 2015 by FreeThinker

Starbuckminsterfullerton · June 17, 2015

Hey Roverdude, I'm working on an engine that functions not unlike the Karbonite Jets in that it uses a resource, say IntakeAtm, instead of IntakeAir since it doesn't require Oxygen. I want to make sure everything is CRP compatible, but I've hunted through the resource spreadsheet and couldn't find the one Karbonite uses. (used to be ScoopedAir but I know it changed.)

Is there an Intake-any-atmosphere resource in the CRP that I should use?

[1.x+] Community Resource Pack

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